akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 10 hours ago, rperez817 said: Yes sir, really. Tesla executives including Elon Musk described that strategy in its quarterly Q&A webcasts. Doesn't matter what you or I think of it, Tesla committed to make Model 3 and Model Y the high volume components of its automotive marketing, and it works. Oh horse hockey. It has nothing to do with marketing and EVERYTHING to do with price. Model S/X sold 15K. They're both over $70K. Model 3 starts at $38K and Y at $49K. The number of potential buyers decreases dramatically as price increases especially above $50K. It's simple economics. The business plan to sell high volume vehicles starts with price. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 BTW - if it was just marketing why wouldn’t companies market and build their most expensive models first since that would bring a lot more profit? Because it doesn’t work that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, akirby said: It has nothing to do with marketing and EVERYTHING to do with price. Price is one aspect of marketing. Read up on Jerome McCarthy's 4 P's model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, akirby said: BTW - if it was just marketing why wouldn’t companies market and build their most expensive models first since that would bring a lot more profit? Because it doesn’t work that way. ? Not only are you ignorant of McCarthy's marketing framework, but of the diffusion of innovations model by Everett Rogers too. You should consider purchasing a marketing textbook and reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Price is one aspect of marketing. Read up on Jerome McCarthy's 4 P's model. Okay, I’ll say it as plainly as possible. There is no way, based on current prices, the Models S and X could be Tesla’s volume models. No Way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, rperez817 said: ? Not only are you ignorant of McCarthy's marketing framework, but of the diffusion of innovations model by Everett Rogers too. You should consider purchasing a marketing textbook and reading it. McCarthy's 4 Ps of Marketing: PRICE Product Promotion Place Diffusion of Innovations doesn't apply to the Tesla sales analysis because they're all the same from an innovation standpoint yet there is a drastic difference in sales volume based on price. Put down the books and use some common sense. People making $15/hour are not buying $70K vehicles. Go look at sales data and check the volumes of the lower priced vehicles vs the higher priced vehicles. As you go up in price, volume goes down. It's indisputable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, akirby said: BTW - if it was just marketing why wouldn’t companies market and build their most expensive models first since that would bring a lot more profit? Not defending what they're doing, but GM/Hummer are doing exactly that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Not defending what they're doing, but GM/Hummer are doing exactly that. Well, it is GM. Maybe rperez convinced them they can sell as many $112K hummers as they want if they just market it correctly. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Not defending what they're doing, but GM/Hummer are doing exactly that. And pretty much all of us have questioned the wisdom of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Marketing gets someone to buy your 50k vehicle over someone else’s 50k vehicle. The notion that marketing just decides “this is going to be our highest volume model because we say so” and no other factors matter is absurd. that’s not how it works. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 55 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: but GM/Hummer are doing exactly that. Any company introducing high technology products or services to market is likely to use that strategy. This is a common application of Rogers' diffusion of innovation model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, rmc523 said: The notion that marketing just decides “this is going to be our highest volume model because we say so” and no other factors matter is absurd. What's absurd is the notion that initial purchase or lease price is "everything" to potential customers of new BEV products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, rperez817 said: What's absurd is the notion that initial purchase or lease price is "everything" to potential customers of new BEV products. I do think on the lower end it is, especially with jellybean products like Leaf and Bolt that just look like econoboxes. There’s no draw there. A big selling factor of Tesla products (which are in the middle to high end of the spectrum price wise) is the image/styling of the brand. So we’ll see how Mach E does since it has style to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: What's absurd is the notion that initial purchase or lease price is "everything" to potential customers of new BEV products. I never said that. I said vehicle price (whether it’s EV or ICE) is the biggest factor on sales volume, meaning a $40k vehicle will outsell a $80k vehicle every time assuming both are competitive in their segment. In 2019 camry outsold the es350 336k to 51k. By any stretch the ES350 is a better vehicle yet Camry outsells it 6 to 1. Do you really think it’s all marketing? Camry is cheaper. Period. With every $10k in price increase you lose a substantial number of potential buyers who simply can’t afford to or are unwilling to pay that much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FR739 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 9:46 PM, rperez817 said: It's the American way, all 3 of the major U.S. automakers (Ford, GM, Tesla)... This is a joke right? Tesla, the company that makes vehicles in tents and has some of the worst quality in the entire industry is supposedly one of the “Big 3”? I haven’t laughed that hard in a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 31 minutes ago, FR739 said: This is a joke right? Tesla, the company that makes vehicles in tents and has some of the worst quality in the entire industry is supposedly one of the “Big 3”? I haven’t laughed that hard in a while. He doesn't count FCA Stellantis because they’re headquartered in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 53 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: He doesn't count FCA Stellantis because they’re headquartered in Europe. coming soon to a drug store near you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: I never said that. I said vehicle price (whether it’s EV or ICE) is the biggest factor on sales volume, meaning a $40k vehicle will outsell a $80k vehicle every time assuming both are competitive in their segment. In 2019 camry outsold the es350 336k to 51k. By any stretch the ES350 is a better vehicle yet Camry outsells it 6 to 1. Do you really think it’s all marketing? Camry is cheaper. Period. With every $10k in price increase you lose a substantial number of potential buyers who simply can’t afford to or are unwilling to pay that much. absolutely back that up with 30 years on the retail side...the more expensive a vehicle, the smaller the market.....anyone that doubts that in the slightest needs to get out more often...its reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 2:54 PM, jpd80 said: Do you think that the Mach Es will sell reasonably quickly? once they start advertising...I personally don't think Ford has handled the release very well at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, rmc523 said: coming soon to a drug store near you! Don't take Stellantis if you're allergic to Stellantis or if you are pregnant or might become pregnant. Side effects including nausea, paralysis and death have occurred. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 3:31 PM, sullynd said: Did you use the dial on the screen? Some have said it feels cheap. seemed fine to me...theres some rather beautiful sculpting for the door panels. I did notice the rear seats do not recline a couple of inches like all the other Ford SUV's/ CUVs though. But car has some really cool details.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valve Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Deanh said: once they start advertising...I personally don't think Ford has handled the release very well at all... Maybe they don't have to? If the pre-orders went well and since the production is constrained, they don't want to advertise something they can't deliver. Look at all of the upset Bronco buyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, valve said: Maybe they don't have to? If the pre-orders went well and since the production is constrained, they don't want to advertise something they can't deliver. Look at all of the upset Bronco buyers meh, the hype on the two vehicles is substantially different....and for the life of me the Ford organized show and tell we had here was exceptionally badly organized...and actually pissed some people off. They sent their own show and tell product specialists...people wanted to look, but couldn't be bothered with going through a registration process for the privilidge...that's NOT good customer service at all....doesn't matter if they are prospects at all, word of mouth is important... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: In 2019 camry outsold the es350 336k to 51k. By any stretch the ES350 is a better vehicle yet Camry outsells it 6 to 1. In 2015 Ford Focus EV was priced at $29,995 base MSRP, or about $33k in 2020 dollars. Focus EV is a sick joke by today's standards, but in 2015 it was competitive with Nissan LEAF in terms of features and EV range, and priced very close (base MSRP of 2015 LEAF S was $29,860). Yet Nissan sold more than 10 times as many LEAF in 2015 (17,269) as Ford sold Focus EV (1,582). Ford's Mustang Mach-E starts at $43,995. In the U.S. market, will Mustang Mach-E sell more or fewer units in 2021 than Focus EV sold in its best full year, which was 1,964 units in 2014? Edited November 12, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FR739 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: He doesn't count FCA Stellantis because they’re headquartered in Europe. And yet Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram is the most “American” brand you can get. Brash, V8s, RWD, attitude, etc. But more, Tesla is such a tiny manufacturer that they don’t even deserve to be talked about in the same sentence as legitimate auto makers. Talk about a small fish in a big pond 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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