Mach E platform to be used for another vehicle.

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

In 2015 Ford Focus EV was priced at $29,995 base MSRP, or about $33k in 2020 dollars. Focus EV is a sick joke by today's standards, but in 2015 it was competitive with Nissan LEAF in terms of features and EV range, and priced very close (base MSRP of 2015 LEAF S was $29,860). Yet Nissan sold more than 10 times as many LEAF in 2015 (17,269) as Ford sold Focus EV (1,582).

 

Ford's Mustang Mach-E starts at $43,995. In the U.S. market, will Mustang Mach-E sell more or fewer units in 2021 than Focus EV sold in its best full year, which was 1,964 units in 2014?

Leaf only sold well when they were offering $199 leases.  I’m pretty sure Ford never offered $199 leases on Focus EV.

 

Leaf sales dropped from 30k in 2014 to 14k in 2016 in the US but globally sales stayed about the same or increased.  Why?  Because they raised prices and dropped the $199 lease deals in the US.

 

Take any steady state vehicle with adequate supply.  Raise the price by $5K and sales will drop substantially.  Lower the price by $5k and sales will increase substantially.   $80k vehicles have fewer potential buyers than $40k vehicles.   How you don’t understand this is mind boggling. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

once they start advertising...I personally don't think Ford has handled the release very well at all...

Yes, I noticed that once they announced Bronco and Bronco Sport, the focus went away from Mach E, a bit odd considering how invested Bill Ford is with it.

[AGR]

2 hours ago, FR739 said:

But more, Tesla is such a tiny manufacturer that they don’t even deserve to be talked about in the same sentence as legitimate auto makers.  Talk about a small fish in a big pond 

 

Oh please, Tesla is on pace to make nearly a half million cars this year, and likely more next year. Just because you don't like them (for whatever reason) doesn't mean they're not legitimate. I guarantee you that Tesla's competitors consider them to be legitimate.

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

 $80k vehicles have fewer potential buyers than $40k vehicles.   How you don’t understand this is mind boggling. 

 

I understand that just fine sir. Do you understand that the statement you made in a previous post "vehicle price (whether it’s EV or ICE) is the biggest factor on sales volume" is not true?

[rperez817]

47 minutes ago, AGR said:

I guarantee you that Tesla's competitors consider them to be legitimate.

 

Yes sir AGR. Ford CEO Jim Farley not only considers Tesla to be legitimate, he specifically listed Tesla along with Amazon, Apple, and Baidu as "the competitors Ford must address". Farley is a very smart businessman, he knows that those high technology giants among others will eat Ford and other incumbent automakers alive if the incumbents aren't able to change and adapt to the ongoing revolution in the automotive industry quickly enough.

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, Deanh said:

meh, the hype on the two vehicles is substantially different....and for the life of me the Ford organized show and tell we had here was exceptionally badly organized...and actually pissed some people off. They sent their own show and tell product specialists...people wanted to look, but couldn't be bothered with going through a registration process for the privilidge...that's NOT good customer service at all....doesn't matter if they are prospects at all, word of mouth is important...

 

Wait what happened?

 

from those comments sounded like you had to sign up to come to the preview event?   But people don’t want to do not many showed up?

 

4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

In 2015 Ford Focus EV was priced at $29,995 base MSRP, or about $33k in 2020 dollars. Focus EV is a sick joke by today's standards, but in 2015 it was competitive with Nissan LEAF in terms of features and EV range, and priced very close (base MSRP of 2015 LEAF S was $29,860). Yet Nissan sold more than 10 times as many LEAF in 2015 (17,269) as Ford sold Focus EV (1,582).

 

Ford's Mustang Mach-E starts at $43,995. In the U.S. market, will Mustang Mach-E sell more or fewer units in 2021 than Focus EV sold in its best full year, which was 1,964 units in 2014?

That Focus EV was like a red headed step child that was just there to say they had something.   It’s not as if they tried or wanted to push it.   I doubt many even knew it existed

 

Mach E will be a different story - I guarantee it.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, AGR said:

 

Oh please, Tesla is on pace to make nearly a half million cars this year, and likely more next year. Just because you don't like them (for whatever reason) doesn't mean they're not legitimate. I guarantee you that Tesla's competitors consider them to be legitimate.

Half a million cars and they’re still not profitable without selling emissions credits. I know Tesla will turn positive but gee, it seems to be a real struggle even with loads of assistance.

[jasonj80]

5 hours ago, FR739 said:

And yet Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram is the most “American” brand you can get.  Brash, V8s, RWD, attitude, etc.  

 

But more, Tesla is such a tiny manufacturer that they don’t even deserve to be talked about in the same sentence as legitimate auto makers.  Talk about a small fish in a big pond 

Well to be fair the only reason FCA/Stellantis can actually sell any of those vehicles is because they can buy Tesla’s credits. FCA/Stellantis wouldn’t exist as a company without Tesla. 

[Gurgeh]

19 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I do think on the lower end it is, especially with jellybean products like Leaf and Bolt that just look like econoboxes.   There’s no draw there.  

A big selling factor of Tesla products (which are in the middle to high end of the spectrum price wise) is the image/styling of the brand.  So we’ll see how Mach E does since it has style to it.

That would be a better test case if the MME wasn't so supply constrained. If Ford wants to compete in the BEV world they are going to have to figure out how to get all the batteries they need for the cars they can sell.

[sullynd]

9 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Well to be fair the only reason FCA/Stellantis can actually sell any of those vehicles is because they can buy Tesla’s credits. FCA/Stellantis wouldn’t exist as a company without Tesla. 

There’s been talk about eliminating the credits, which would be interesting for both companies. 

[rperez817]

10 hours ago, rmc523 said:

That Focus EV was like a red headed step child that was just there to say they had something.   It’s not as if they tried or wanted to push it.   I doubt many even knew it existed

 

Mach E will be a different story - I guarantee it.

 

Thank you rmc523 for highlighting the absurdity of akirby's statement "vehicle price (whether it’s EV or ICE) is the biggest factor on sales volume."

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

That would be a better test case if the MME wasn't so supply constrained. If Ford wants to compete in the BEV world they are going to have to figure out how to get all the batteries they need for the cars they can sell.

 

True, but it’ll still also be viewed positively if they sell out what they do have.   If they don’t when they’re supply constrained, then you know there are big problems.

 

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you rmc523 for highlighting the absurdity of akirby's statement "vehicle price (whether it’s EV or ICE) is the biggest factor on sales volume."

i didn’t highlight that at all.   In certain segments, vehicle price is one of if not the biggest factor on sales volume.

[bzcat]

17 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, I noticed that once they announced Bronco and Bronco Sport, the focus went away from Mach E, a bit odd considering how invested Bill Ford is with it.

 

That's because the original Mach E delivery schedules were scrubbed due to COVID production delays. Normally, we would have seen lots of media/press drive impression and consumer marketing campaign on the retail launch a month or two ago. I will bet those are embargoed until December now, maybe even later.

Edited November 13, 2020 by bzcat

[valve]

4 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

That would be a better test case if the MME wasn't so supply constrained. If Ford wants to compete in the BEV world they are going to have to figure out how to get all the batteries they need for the cars they can sell.

 

Seems that they are thinking about building their own now:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-ford-electric/ford-ceo-says-automaker-weighing-making-own-batteries-for-evs-idUSKBN27T26B

[fuzzymoomoo]

56 minutes ago, valve said:

 

Seems that they are thinking about building their own now:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-ford-electric/ford-ceo-says-automaker-weighing-making-own-batteries-for-evs-idUSKBN27T26B

Im not surprised. I think we all questioned Hackett's insistence on sourcing batteries from vendors. Especially when it came out that Mach-E was production limited due to battery availability. Building your own batteries is as smart as building your own engines. A total no-brainer. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

That's because the original Mach E delivery schedules were scrubbed due to COVID production delays. Normally, we would have seen lots of media/press drive impression and consumer marketing campaign on the retail launch a month or two ago. I will bet those are embargoed until December now, maybe even later.

Or maybe never, maybe they missed their window....

 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Im not surprised. I think we all questioned Hackett's insistence on sourcing batteries from vendors. Especially when it came out that Mach-E was production limited due to battery availability. Building your own batteries is as smart as building your own engines. A total no-brainer. 

Seriously, this company changes plans like underpants. Hackett is gone two seconds

and already, decisions are being reviewed, maybe signs of a more intuitive leader?

At least until it all goes bad again.....

[FordBuyer]

18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Half a million cars and they’re still not profitable without selling emissions credits. I know Tesla will turn positive but gee, it seems to be a real struggle even with loads of assistance.

Tesla is a technology company that happens to make autos. Big difference from a traditional automaker like Ford. Ford gets it or should I say Farley gets it as he tries to digitize its commercial business. To compare Tesla with traditional auto companies is a false comparison. 

[FordBuyer]

51 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Seriously, this company changes plans like underpants. Hackett is gone two seconds

and already, decisions are being reviewed, maybe signs of a more intuitive leader?

At least until it all goes bad again.....

The big $64,000 question is with $2 gas will significant numbers of consumers fork over thousands of dollars more for future BEV's. Most BEV's announced so far are in luxury price territory and the affordable BEV's have had modest success. Just today Bolts are being recalled as fire hazards as have some Teslas. 

[sullynd]

And F150s, and Escapes, and...

[Willwll313wll]

3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Tesla is a technology company that happens to make autos. Big difference from a traditional automaker like Ford. Ford gets it or should I say Farley gets it as he tries to digitize its commercial business. To compare Tesla with traditional auto companies is a false comparison. 

 

NO Tesla is a automotive company, that's using a "new" technology. 

It's electric yes, but it's automotive. Technology is what Ford and other automakers have been doing for years, and it's no different then what Tesla is doing now. Ecoboost? technology... Electric powertrains? technology, Model T? technology. Tech does not mean future or new... Tech is really just the application of science/engineering. 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

The big $64,000 question is with $2 gas will significant numbers of consumers fork over thousands of dollars more for future BEV's. Most BEV's announced so far are in luxury price territory and the affordable BEV's have had modest success. Just today Bolts are being recalled as fire hazards as have some Teslas. 

The buy in for BEVs is not fuel prices as such even though it’s often painted that way, it’s more about folks that want them either because new tech or seen as greener or both.

 

auto companies just cashing on exclusive products with high profits 

[jcartwright99]

5 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

The big $64,000 question is with $2 gas will significant numbers of consumers fork over thousands of dollars more for future BEV's. Most BEV's announced so far are in luxury price territory and the affordable BEV's have had modest success. Just today Bolts are being recalled as fire hazards as have some Teslas. 

I’d drive a Bolt if it wasn’t fugly! It’s like GM channeled their early 90s econobox design team with that design. 
 

BTW, 2 dollar gas probably has a year left on the table.

[jpd80]

Which kinda suggests that the coming BEVs will continue to  be mostly premium priced,

so I don't think that today's low  fuel prices will influence buying decisions all that much.

Edited November 14, 2020 by jpd80

[FR739]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Seriously, this company changes plans like underpants. Hackett is gone two seconds

and already, decisions are being reviewed, maybe signs of a more intuitive leader?

At least until it all goes bad again.....

I think they are righting a lot of wrongs.  Hackett made a lot of poor decisions and I think Farley recognizes that and is taking steps to correct that.  This battery development is an example of that.  Ford is (for some reason) pushing very hard into EVs and it only makes sense to make your own batteries.  

 

4 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

 

NO Tesla is a automotive company, that's using a "new" technology. 

It's electric yes, but it's automotive. Technology is what Ford and other automakers have been doing for years, and it's no different then what Tesla is doing now. Ecoboost? technology... Electric powertrains? technology, Model T? technology. Tech does not mean future or new... Tech is really just the application of science/engineering. 

That’s laughable.  The *only* think Tesla has going for it is tech. And even that is pretty poor (autopilot?).  But the cars themselves are complete junk. Quality is abysmal, bumpers fall off in the rain etc.  

 

It would be no different than Apple making a car (although you can bet everything you have Apple wouldn’t have the immense problems Tesla has and the products would be of much higher quality).