Mach E platform to be used for another vehicle.

[FR739]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:33 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir AGR. Ford CEO Jim Farley not only considers Tesla to be legitimate, he specifically listed Tesla along with Amazon, Apple, and Baidu as "the competitors Ford must address". Farley is a very smart businessman, he knows that those high technology giants among others will eat Ford and other incumbent automakers alive if the incumbents aren't able to change and adapt to the ongoing revolution in the automotive industry quickly enough.

Thats insane.  How exactly is Apple going to eat Ford alive?  How is Amazon?

 

That’s like saying Colgate toothpaste is a huge threat to Samsung.  

[jpd80]

3 minutes ago, FR739 said:

I think they are righting a lot of wrongs.  Hackett made a lot of poor decisions and I think Farley recognizes that and is taking steps to correct that.  This battery development is an example of that.  Ford is (for some reason) pushing very hard into EVs and it only makes sense to make your own batteries.  

Correct, the objectives that Ford is setting itself with batteries for hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs over the next few years

means that it's compelled to take manufacture in-house or risk looking foolish because it just can't deliver on promised

vehicle quantities. Hackett didn't understand that his decision would effectively derail all of Ford's electrification plans,

they have to control battery supply. 

[rperez817]

8 hours ago, FR739 said:

Ford is (for some reason) pushing very hard into EVs and it only makes sense to make your own batteries.  

 

That reason is that Ford wants to exist in the future of an automotive industry that will be 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, with mobility services an integral part. 

[AGR]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:39 AM, sullynd said:

There’s been talk about eliminating the credits, which would be interesting for both companies. 

 

That talk probably went away, given the election results.

[AGR]

11 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

That reason is that Ford wants to exist in the future of an automotive industry that will be 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, with mobility services an integral part. 

 

I will buy the EV part, but not the autonomous part. That is a Silicon Valley fantasy.,

[rperez817]

9 hours ago, FR739 said:

Thats insane.  How exactly is Apple going to eat Ford alive?  How is Amazon?

 

Jim Farley is insanely smart. He and other Ford executives are aware that the future of personal mobility, transportation, and connectivity will no longer be defined by individuals purchasing ICE powered cars and light trucks, or by "car dependent" lifestyles. And Ford also recognizes that Apple and Amazon, as well as Tesla and upstart high technology companies, are backed by ample capital and invest very aggressively in new technologies including those related to personal mobility, transportation, and connectivity.

 

Farley's former employer Toyota recognizes this too. Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda said a couple years ago "The automotive industry is hurtling into an era of profound transformation, the likes of which come only once every 100 years. With even our rivals and the rules of competition also changing, a life-or-death battle has begun in a world of unknowns."

Edited November 14, 2020 by rperez817

[sullynd]

26 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

That talk probably went away, given the election results.

Probably not.  It’s CA that’s been talking about it. Letting FCA be dirty because they can buy credits from Tesla works against getting cars cleaner. 

[silvrsvt]

23 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Farley's former employer Toyota recognizes this too. Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda said a couple years ago "The automotive industry is hurtling into an era of profound transformation, the likes of which come only once every 100 years. With even our rivals and the rules of competition also changing, a life-or-death battle has begun in a world of unknowns."

But yet they have really come out with a BEV product and seem hellbent on going the fuel cell route. 

[FordBuyer]

14 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

 

NO Tesla is a automotive company, that's using a "new" technology. 

It's electric yes, but it's automotive. Technology is what Ford and other automakers have been doing for years, and it's no different then what Tesla is doing now. Ecoboost? technology... Electric powertrains? technology, Model T? technology. Tech does not mean future or new... Tech is really just the application of science/engineering. 

Comparing Ford to Tesla is like comparing Dell to Apple. Not a good comparison.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

But yet they have really come out with a BEV product and seem hellbent on going the fuel cell route. 

 

Yes sir, Toyota is fixated on "fool cells" and hybrids for passenger car and light trucks. Neither appear to be viable long-term. Remains to be seen if Toyota will change course, if they don't, what Toyoda san said about "life-or-death" battle may become more real for Toyota executives.

[FR739]

4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

That reason is that Ford wants to exist in the future of an automotive industry that will be 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, with mobility services an integral part. 

Thats laughable. That’s not going to happen in our lifetime, our children’s lifetime or our grandkids lifetime.  
 

Without a doubt it’s good to explore and innovate but poster child for green initiatives like this is California and their electrical grid can’t handle daily life when the temperature is above 90. 
 

And we’re going to add millions and millions of cars to that grid?  Not happening.  Perhaps if we could build some power plants but that’s banned too. 
 

The only way those things you mentioned will come true is one of two ways.  People demand and want that technology (because it works.....Tesla is a perfect example of how self driving technology is light years away from being functional) or the government forces it on people (who, for the most part, don’t want it). 
 

Ford (and all automakers) are correct to wade slowly into EVs.  Because eventually they will be a legitimate replacement for ICE vehicles.  But they are nowhere near close to that right now.  

[FordBuyer]

13 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Thats laughable. That’s not going to happen in our lifetime, our children’s lifetime or our grandkids lifetime.  
 

Without a doubt it’s good to explore and innovate but poster child for green initiatives like this is California and their electrical grid can’t handle daily life when the temperature is above 90. 
 

And we’re going to add millions and millions of cars to that grid?  Not happening.  Perhaps if we could build some power plants but that’s banned too. 
 

The only way those things you mentioned will come true is one of two ways.  People demand and want that technology (because it works.....Tesla is a perfect example of how self driving technology is light years away from being functional) or the government forces it on people (who, for the most part, don’t want it). 
 

Ford (and all automakers) are correct to wade slowly into EVs.  Because eventually they will be a legitimate replacement for ICE vehicles.  But they are nowhere near close to that right now.  

I would agree.........the transition from fossil fuels will be a very very slow process over many decades at best. In twenty years, there will be many more electrics on the road, but there will still be many millions of ICE vehicles on the road also for many reasons. 

[jpd80]

Hybrids don't impact energy grids and increase the efficiency of ICE  vehicles 

when operating in variable speed situations which is most of the time

in anything but highway running. That's all most people want.

[mackinaw]

16 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

I would agree.........the transition from fossil fuels will be a very very slow process over many decades at best. In twenty years, there will be many more electrics on the road, but there will still be many millions of ICE vehicles on the road also for many reasons. 

 

This was mentioned on Autoline Daily a few weeks back.  110 powertrain experts (OEM's, suppliers, etc.) were asked where they thought EV's would be in ten years.  The consensus is that 13% of all vehicles sold in 2030 would be EV's.  The rest, 87%, would be ICE powered vehicles.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

17 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

BTW, 2 dollar gas probably has a year left on the table.

A year? I'll give it 4 months once Biden is sworn in. 

[FordBuyer]

16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

A year? I'll give it 4 months once Biden is sworn in. 

So where is the demand coming from as even with an effective vaccine it will take years to stamp out covid. Add in the anti vaccine crowd and this country will be a shit show for many years. A nation divided can't deal with crisis very effectively. So if half the country sees Biden as illegitimate leader, then no end in sight. So don't worry about the country coming back fully.

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

So where is the demand coming from as even with an effective vaccine it will take years to stamp out covid. Add in the anti vaccine crowd and this country will be a shit show for many years. A nation divided can't deal with crisis very effectively. So if half the country sees Biden as illegitimate leader, then no end in sight. So don't worry about the country coming back fully.

He’s predicting government intervention to artificially raise gas prices.  Would not surprise me.

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 minutes ago, akirby said:

He’s predicting government intervention to artificially raise gas prices.  Would not surprise me.

Exactly. Biden has said on day 1 he will ban fracking and pretty much end all US offshore drilling. That's going to spike fuel prices and cripple the economy at large. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

12 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

So where is the demand coming from as even with an effective vaccine it will take years to stamp out covid. Add in the anti vaccine crowd and this country will be a shit show for many years. A nation divided can't deal with crisis very effectively. So if half the country sees Biden as illegitimate leader, then no end in sight. So don't worry about the country coming back fully.

Also I think it's pretty clear on where I stand on the threat of COVID. So dangerous certain leaders won't even follow their own edicts. But I'm supposed to believe it's the most dangerous thing to have ever existed. GTFOH with that garbage. 

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Also I think it's pretty clear on where I stand on the threat of COVID. So dangerous certain leaders won't even follow their own edicts. But I'm supposed to believe it's the most dangerous thing to have ever existed. GTFOH with that garbage. 

It has the potential to kill millions and overwhelm hospitals if precautions aren’t taken.  It’s pretty damn dangerous.

 

But the media has over hyped the case counts.  The more tests the more positive results but that doesn’t necessarily translate to hospitalizations and deaths.  Ga has more cases but hospitalizations and deaths are only up very slightly and still way below previous surges.

[fuzzymoomoo]

28 minutes ago, akirby said:

It has the potential to kill millions and overwhelm hospitals if precautions aren’t taken.  It’s pretty damn dangerous.

We're also 8+ months into this thing now and we have much more knowledge on how to treat the virus than we did back in March/April when the first spike was just hitting its peak. Plus there's a chance it's starting to mutate to a less lethal/virulent form. 

 

28 minutes ago, akirby said:

But the media has over hyped the case counts.  The more tests the more positive results but that doesn’t necessarily translate to hospitalizations and deaths.  Ga has more cases but hospitalizations and deaths are only up very slightly and still way below previous surges.

Ive been saying that for months. I've literally had friends stop talking to me because of that opinion. It's the same story in Michigan right now (though I think our hospitalization rate is a little higher than Georgia right now) and the governor is acting like she's going to shut the state again and it sounds like it could happen just in time for Thanksgiving. 
 

 

Edit: then there's this that I literally just found. Read the whole thread for more context. Doesn't necessarily prove anything but definitely something to keep an eye on. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[FordBuyer]

35 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Exactly. Biden has said on day 1 he will ban fracking and pretty much end all US offshore drilling. That's going to spike fuel prices and cripple the economy at large. 

Fracking is natural gas. Whitmer closing down Line 5 under the Straits could cause problems though. No lack of supply of oil and very little demand. XOM and CVX are already cutting back big time due to lack of demand. So if demand does come back in a few years, then yes gas prices will rise. But it will be because of improving economy and getting back to normal. The Republicans are good at cratering the economy, so the roller coaster ride continues.

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Fracking is natural gas. Whitmer closing down Line 5 under the Straits could cause problems though. No lack of supply of oil and very little demand. XOM and CVX are already cutting back big time due to lack of demand. So if demand does come back in a few years, then yes gas prices will rise. But it will be because of improving economy and getting back to normal. The Republicans are good at cratering the economy, so the roller coaster ride continues.

So I take it you haven't been paying attention to the last 3 years of record low unemployment rates (including record lows for minorities) and one of the largest economic growth swings since WWII.

 

But tell me again how Republicans crater the economy ?

[FordBuyer]

Just now, fuzzymoomoo said:

So I take it you haven't been paying attention to the last 3 years of record low unemployment rates (including record lows for minorities) and one of the largest economic growth swings since WWII.

 

But tell me again how Republicans crater the economy ?

Simple....Herbert Hoover, George W. Bush, and now Donald J. Trump. All three ended their time in office with terrible economic times. All three INHERITED good economies and ended with Great Depression, Great Recession, and Covid shit show and today Trump golfs as Covid cases explode and refuses to work with new Administration to better deal with it. And on a minor note Dwight D Eisehower time in office ended with 1959 recession. Also, I do get that Jimmy Carter had a bad time of it and rightfully like Trump got thrown out of office. However, Carter is a nice guy and Trump has the morals and ethics of an alley cat.

[92merc]

All I'm going to say is Biden isn't likely to shut down fracking.  That would kill ND, TX, and PA oil and the state economy.  He'd be making too many enemies.  In short, think of Biden as Obama 2.0, or jr.  I just don't see Biden doing something that Obama did do.

 

Now can we keep the politics out of the Mach-E thread?  Lets go back to bashing Hacket and his plans...