Harley Lover Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) Didn't take long to undercut Hackett's position: Quote "Absolutely, we're discussing it as a team," Farley said. "We think it's the natural time now because our volume is really growing. What we're finding is there's not a lot of capacity flexibility if you buy your batteries from someone else. There's a lot of other reasons beyond cost to make a move. It's something we're discussing within the company, and it's the right time to discuss it." The article also mentions that going into cell production is a way for Ford to offset job losses as the market moves to EV: Quote "The fact of the matter is electric vehicles have 40 percent less parts, and that means they're a lot easier to put together," Farley said. "We do have to solve for the reality that when electrification becomes 25 percent or 50 percent of our industry in the coming years, what are we going to do about the jobs? One of the obvious choices is going into cell production." Both reasons have merit. I think Ford need to move quickly here, particularly because of reason number one above. Supply constraint is a real issue. Lack of innovation is another issue - it's inevitable that as Ford adds this manufacturing competency to their portfolio, they will innovate and improve this component of their vehicles - there's too much institutional capability within Ford to expect otherwise. If they don't move in this direction, I fear it will become a competitive issue for them (if it hasn't already). Also: as demonstrated by the UK announcement I posted elsewhere, there also exists a possibility that more governments will attempt to accelerate the move the EV's by moving up their transition deadlines (whether or not the consumers will oblige by paying the higher prices for EV's is another topic) - if this occurs, Ford might well be better positioned if manufacturing its own cells, given Farley's observation about supply constraints when purchasing cells (and other issues as he referenced). https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/ford-mulls-ev-battery-cell-output-ceo-says Edited November 14, 2020 by Harley Lover 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 The flip side is gearing up for one tech when say solid state batteries become viable and your stuck with the older stuff for longer then you want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: The flip side is gearing up for one tech when say solid state batteries become viable and your stuck with the older stuff for longer then you want to be. Doesn't seem to be stopping GM and VW. That was just Ford's (Hackett's) excuse wrapped up in a pretty package. At the end of the day, Ford need to control its supply or it won't have enough to support its plans - as Farley duly noted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Well, there's one stupid Hackett decision gone... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, AGR said: Well, there's one stupid Hackett decision gone... Yes sir AGR. Thankfully, that decision has been reversed. And thankfully only a few other of Hackett's decisions as Ford CEO were stupid, and those may be reversed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, AGR said: Well, there's one stupid Hackett decision gone... Its only stupid if they end up being constrained by battery supply and it’s a little early to say whether that’s the case. I do agree it’s a good move for the future just to be safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 48 minutes ago, akirby said: Its only stupid if they end up being constrained by battery supply and it’s a little early to say whether that’s the case. I do agree it’s a good move for the future just to be safe. More important is to keep the UAW happy as with less engines and other component parts needed, Ford has to keep its workforce busy building something. Thus battery factories and electric motor factories that keeps employees happy and working. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 This is a relief. However now Ford has a lot of catching up to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 As long as stuff like this doesn't happen it may be a good move.... https://www.news4jax.com/tech/2020/11/13/gm-recalling-nearly-69k-bolt-electric-cars-due-to-fire-risk/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wjxt4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, AGR said: Well, there's one stupid Hackett decision gone... Please elaborate on the rest of his stupid decisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 5 hours ago, akirby said: Its only stupid if they end up being constrained by battery supply and it’s a little early to say whether that’s the case. I do agree it’s a good move for the future just to be safe. Mach-E limited to 50k production due to battery supply constraints.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranger84 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I think its a good move. They could put it in Cleveland Engine plant 2, its currently sitting empty next to CEP 1. Would be easy to transition work force as ev sales grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, FordBuyer said: More important is to keep the UAW happy as with less engines and other component parts needed, Ford has to keep its workforce busy building something. Thus battery factories and electric motor factories that keeps employees happy and working. Ford's relationship with the UAW has been the best of the big 3 going back decades. I don't think either side is worried about that right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Mach-E limited to 50k production due to battery supply constraints.... And there is no evidence that they can sell more than that (yet). They certainly didn’t sell out reservations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, akirby said: And there is no evidence that they can sell more than that (yet). They certainly didn’t sell out reservations. Maybe not in North America. We don't know how many sales/orders Europe has yet and they’re far more aggressive with pushing BEV sales in that part of the world and Ford already said the bulk of Mach-E sales would be in Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Maybe not in North America. We don't know how many sales/orders Europe has yet and they’re far more aggressive with pushing BEV sales in that part of the world and Ford already said the bulk of Mach-E sales would be in Europe. Not saying it won’t be constrained, just that we don’t know yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, akirby said: Not saying it won’t be constrained, just that we don’t know yet. LOL Farley is already intimating that supply constraint is one of his primary concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Harley Lover said: Doesn't seem to be stopping GM and VW. That was just Ford's (Hackett's) excuse wrapped up in a pretty package. At the end of the day, Ford need to control its supply or it won't have enough to support its plans - as Farley duly noted. They cannot control supply....the supply is in the ground....cobalt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 hours ago, akirby said: Please elaborate on the rest of his stupid decisions. You know darn well what I'm talking about. But that has been discussed ad nauseam in many other threads, leave that subject there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: LOL Farley is already intimating that supply constraint is one of his primary concerns. Of course - long term especially once the BEV transit and f150 are in production. I specifically meant right now with Mach-E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, AGR said: You know darn well what I'm talking about. But that has been discussed ad nauseam in many other threads, leave that subject there. If you mean cancelling sedans then that’s a silly argument. I thought you had other examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, akirby said: If you mean cancelling sedans then that’s a silly argument. And I don’t mean it’s silly because I disagree with it. I mean it’s silly to call it stupid because you don’t know what the choices were. Keeping sedans would have forced cancellation or delays in other projects such as Bronco Sport and Maverick and other things we don’t know about. Cancelling them without replacing them would have been stupid, Edited November 14, 2020 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 3 hours ago, snooter said: They cannot control supply....the supply is in the ground....cobalt GM has figured out a way to use substantially less cobalt in a battery that more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 So has tesla.....they cannot remove any more cobalt from the anode....there is nothing knew here....the battery just generates more heat at the anode than prior.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 A new lifeline for Romeo Engine???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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