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Mustang Mach E longest range Non Tesla BEV


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7 hours ago, FR739 said:

Unless the Mach E is the next Pinto, I really don’t see how it can fail.  And remember, I’m not a fan of electric cars.  But I see the merits.  

I do: battery supply constraints. But Ford is working on that. Let's see if they can get there in time...

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9 hours ago, FR739 said:

 

I think the Mach E will be a bigger hit than the Bronco.  Sure the Bronco will have many more sales, but I see the Mach E being the new Flex in terms of conquest sales and doing more for the brand long term than the Bronco.  
 

Unless the Mach E is the next Pinto, I really don’t see how it can fail.  And remember, I’m not a fan of electric cars.  But I see the merits.  


I don’t think it will go that far but I do think it will be successful in that regard.  It will show what a full line automaker can do with BEVs at a profit.  
 

I think Bronco can bring even more conquests and drive huge customer loyalty just like F series.  And they’re investing in it accordingly.

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The problem most have with Tesla is 3 fold.  

The first two are minor.  The last one is the biggest.

 

1.  Musk

2.  Quality issues and no profit on vehicle sales despite relatively big volume

 

3.  The ongoing perception that Tesla is somehow superior to other automakers.  Tesla would not have survived without government rules and incentives to promote BEV sales including the federal tax credit and sale of carbon credits.  They have effectively been selling vehicles below cost for over a decade now.   Ford, GM and others could have easily sold BEVs below cost, but they actually have to return profits to stay in business.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

I do: battery supply constraints. But Ford is working on that. Let's see if they can get there in time...


Yes.  Totally agree.  
 

I guess I’m speaking more first year.  We know it’s limited as Ford wants to see how it will do and, frankly, it’s buying them time to get their ducks...err...batteries in a row.  
 

So unless Ford drops the ball and literally forgets about the battery thing, I think it has a good chance at being a grand slam.  

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41 minutes ago, akirby said:

The problem most have with Tesla is 3 fold.  

The first two are minor.  The last one is the biggest.

 

1.  Musk

2.  Quality issues and no profit on vehicle sales despite relatively big volume

 

3.  The ongoing perception that Tesla is somehow superior to other automakers.  Tesla would not have survived without government rules and incentives to promote BEV sales including the federal tax credit and sale of carbon credits.  They have effectively been selling vehicles below cost for over a decade now.   Ford, GM and others could have easily sold BEVs below cost, but they actually have to return profits to stay in business.  

 

 

 

 

With Team "B" in charge for the next 4 years, carbon credits and taxes will become a major factor for all manufacturers. 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

3.  The ongoing perception that Tesla is somehow superior to other automakers. 

 

In this case, perception is reality. Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering, and marketing BEV. They started a revolution in the automotive industry and continue to lead it.

 

Thankfully for Ford in particular, both Jim Hackett and Jim Farley recognize this. That's what led Ford to make Mustang Mach-E a truly appealing product, not a science fair project or regulatory compliance car like Ford's previous BEV models.

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14 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Thankfully for Ford in particular, both Jim Hackett and Jim Farley recognize this. That's what led Ford to make Mustang Mach-E a truly appealing product, not a science fair project or regulatory compliance car like Ford's previous BEV models.

 

Like the Focus Electric that dealers couldn't give away?

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34 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

In this case, perception is reality. Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering, and marketing BEV. They started a revolution in the automotive industry and continue to lead it.


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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

In this case, perception is reality. Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering, and marketing BEV. They started a revolution in the automotive industry and continue to lead it.

 

Thankfully for Ford in particular, both Jim Hackett and Jim Farley recognize this. That's what led Ford to make Mustang Mach-E a truly appealing product, not a science fair project or regulatory compliance car like Ford's previous BEV models.

reality?...bollocks...want a list of mis-fires ?..Tesla is no doubtedly over-rated...but I will give them cudos, Elon got people to buy into it and ignore all the issues, and they were not, and are not dis-missable to anyone bar in his " cult ". SMOKE AND MIRRORS. The ONLY plus in their column is their software, which IS more advanced than other manufacturers...quality...no, lack of issues, no...engineering , no, design , no...software and its application, yes...

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18 minutes ago, Deanh said:

reality?...bollocks...want a list of mis-fires ?..Tesla is no doubtedly over-rated...but I will give them cudos, Elon got people to buy into it and ignore all the issues, and they were not, and are not dis-missable to anyone bar in his " cult ". SMOKE AND MIRRORS. The ONLY plus in their column is their software, which IS more advanced than other manufacturers...quality...no, lack of issues, no...engineering , no, design , no...software and its application, yes...

I believe most of us are just jealous we didn't buy Tesla stock way back when at $30 and would now be millionaires. Enough to piss anyone off as we hold onto our single digit Ford stock for years and feel like chumps. Hopefully Farley can turn this Turkey around and make us less jealous of Tesla and all the millionaires created by Tesla stock. 

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18 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

I believe most of us are just jealous we didn't buy Tesla stock way back when at $30 and would now be millionaires. Enough to piss anyone off as we hold onto our single digit Ford stock for years and feel like chumps. Hopefully Farley can turn this Turkey around and make us less jealous of Tesla and all the millionaires created by Tesla stock. 

 stocks don't mean anything to me at all...so jealousy doesn't enter into the foray...what has had me watching Tesla closely since day one, is its complete cult like following that think its the greatest thing since cut cheese,.whilst TOTALLY ignoring major design issues , faults and lack luster quality. All whilst Tesla themselves constantly promote significantly less maintenance and issues due to less complex construction and moving parts than ICE.....when in reality, that just makes matters WORSE...you've got a "simpler' vehicle you state needs less maintenance and care, but outweighs that hall pass, by exhibiting some serious flaws, problems, substandard manufacture and quality issues. And lets be real...some of the issues are inexcusable and border on deadly. So jealous of stock  prices...no...stock prices don't necessarily reflect a superior product...in this case its anything but

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

In this case, perception is reality. Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering, and marketing BEV. They started a revolution in the automotive industry and continue to lead it.


Oh come off it.  Tesla bumpers fall off in the rain, their quality is abysmal, panel gaps are not even, their paint process is worse than the Goonzquad boys in their blow up paint booth.  And let’s not forget that pesky little thing about making a profit.  Really the only measure of success is if your product makes money.   
 

Tesla is not superior to established OEMs.  They are nothing more than an annoying mosquito with a cult like following.  

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I don't know why people continue to dismiss Tesla as a serious competitor. I mean Ford certainly thinks Tesla is for real and take the threat seriously. So do just about all the established OEMs.

 

It's fine if you don't like the car or Elon Musk, whatever. But to say Tesla is a "mosquito" when Model 3 is one of the top selling sedan in a lot of market is a strange case of mental disconnect here. 

 

There is also the constant goalpost moving. First was about the design, then build quality became the thing. And now the company is a joke because it didn't deliver GAAP profit every quarter. News flash... Ford doesn't produce GAAP accounting profit every quarter either; and when it does, it often is due to profit from Ford Credit. In another word, Ford doesn't make profit building cars either, at least not consistently. And the criticism about Tesla making profit because of carbon credit... well that's the business model! You sell EV to generate credit to offset your other polluting cars - except Tesla doesn't have ICE cars so it has a surplus of credits. It's perfectly legitimate source of income for Tesla just like subprime loan interest is a perfectly legitimate source of income for Ford.

 

Tesla has overcome a lot of issues and it still has some. I'm not an Elon cheerleader, in fact, I have been quite critical of him on these forums. But I think it has demonstrated that it is a very serious car company, albeit one with access to capital market that Ford and other OEMs only wish they have. 

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31 minutes ago, bzcat said:

But to say Tesla is a "mosquito" when Model 3 is one of the top selling sedan in a lot of market is a strange case of mental disconnect here. 


Not really.  It’s a dying segment.  Big deal.  
 

And their entry in that segment is junk.  Do you really want to crow about a car that has the bumpers fall off because it’s raining?  
 

The most successful thing Tesla has done was convince people that their cars are the holy grail of personal transportation.  Like was said earlier Tesla is nothing more than a smoke show.  

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its not dismissal but the constant chest beating from proponents claiming its the absolute pinnacle is close to unbearable...AND unwarranted....well, unless the roof opening at 70 mph in 0.3 seconds by completely flying off is something other manufacturers should use as barometer for excellence, or bumpers that fall off in the rain...or doors that wont open, or complete shutdowns when driving, or "auto pilot" issues, or self parking issues, or touchscreen failures, or paint issues, or rust issues, or, or, or ( let me know if you need more ).....hey, ALL manufacturers have their fair share of issues, but somehow Tesla gets a hall pass from blind worshippers.....

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34 minutes ago, Deanh said:

its not dismissal but the constant chest beating from proponents claiming its the absolute pinnacle is close to unbearable...AND unwarranted....well, unless the roof opening at 70 mph in 0.3 seconds by completely flying off is something other manufacturers should use as barometer for excellence, or bumpers that fall off in the rain...or doors that wont open, or complete shutdowns when driving, or "auto pilot" issues, or self parking issues, or touchscreen failures, or paint issues, or rust issues, or, or, or ( let me know if you need more ).....hey, ALL manufacturers have their fair share of issues, but somehow Tesla gets a hall pass from blind worshippers.....

 

I don't see much difference between the so called blind worshippers and the irrational haters. They are both drinking the Koolaid. Tesla guys have the red one, and some of you just gulp the blue one. It's fair to criticize Tesla for the poor quality controls but I don't think its fair to dismiss owners that love their Tesla as a cult member or deny the fact that Tesla does in fact lead in battery technology and efficiency right now. I don't understand why it hurts some of you to admit Tesla has made fairly good cars and plenty of reasonable people have bought one on merit not hype.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

I don't see much difference between the so called blind worshippers and the irrational haters. They are both drinking the Koolaid. Tesla guys have the red one, and some of you just gulp the blue one. It's fair to criticize Tesla for the poor quality controls but I don't think its fair to dismiss owners that love their Tesla as a cult member or deny the fact that Tesla does in fact lead in battery technology and efficiency right now. I don't understand why it hurts some of you to admit Tesla has made fairly good cars and plenty of reasonable people have bought one on merit not hype.

 

 

 

 

fair enough...but the ONLY thing they lead in is that battery technology....very little else...but that's NOT what youll hear from their loyal bretheren...youll hear something like this...Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering, and marketing BEV. Rest my case...

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Tesla is most definitely superior to all incumbent automakers when it comes to designing, engineering,


Tell that to the people who's Model 3's bumpers fall off in the rain, or that family who had their glass roof fly off on the highway, or the myriad people who can't get in their cars because the gimmicky door handles don't pop out like they’re supposed to.

 

should I continue? 

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35 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

I don't see much difference between the so called blind worshippers and the irrational haters. They are both drinking the Koolaid. Tesla guys have the red one, and some of you just gulp the blue one. It's fair to criticize Tesla for the poor quality controls but I don't think its fair to dismiss owners that love their Tesla as a cult member or deny the fact that Tesla does in fact lead in battery technology and efficiency right now. I don't understand why it hurts some of you to admit Tesla has made fairly good cars and plenty of reasonable people have bought one on merit not hype.

 

 

 

 


When a Nissan Versa or a Mitsubishi Mirage have better quality standards and better overall product execution, it’s not being irrational to call people who think Tesla is the end all be all a cult member.  It’s perfectly warranted.  Not saying being a blind cheerleader is a good thing or a bad thing, but they refuse to acknowledge the facts.  
 

I don’t see anyone here having an irrational hatred for Tesla.  I think everyone here wants them to succeed but in a way that makes good business sense.  What they’re doing now is the antithesis of a good business model

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15 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Tell that to the people who's Model 3's bumpers fall off in the rain, or that family who had their glass roof fly off on the highway, or the myriad people who can't get in their cars because the gimmicky door handles don't pop out like they’re supposed to.

 

should I continue? 

that was my point exactly....like I said...every manufacturer has its fair share of issues...but to state superiority and then back it up with crap quality is ill founded to put it lightly. Good ideas extremely badly executed , and Tesla is NOT immune.

In fact they could quite possibly be utilized as a prime example of what NOT to aim for.

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

I don't see much difference between the so called blind worshippers and the irrational haters. They are both drinking the Koolaid. Tesla guys have the red one, and some of you just gulp the blue one. It's fair to criticize Tesla for the poor quality controls but I don't think its fair to dismiss owners that love their Tesla as a cult member or deny the fact that Tesla does in fact lead in battery technology and efficiency right now. I don't understand why it hurts some of you to admit Tesla has made fairly good cars and plenty of reasonable people have bought one on merit not hype.


Did you read my very rational post?

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21 minutes ago, FR739 said:


When a Nissan Versa or a Mitsubishi Mirage have better quality standards and better overall product execution, it’s not being irrational to call people who think Tesla is the end all be all a cult member.  It’s perfectly warranted.  Not saying being a blind cheerleader is a good thing or a bad thing, but they refuse to acknowledge the facts.  
 

I don’t see anyone here having an irrational hatred for Tesla.  I think everyone here wants them to succeed but in a way that makes good business sense.  What they’re doing now is the antithesis of a good business model

 

Yeah right...  If you want to see someone with an irrational hatred of Tesla, find a mirror. There are others, too

 

The Mach-E has one major disadvantage versus Tesla: it charges slow.

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4 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

Yeah right...  If you want to see someone with an irrational hatred of Tesla, find a mirror. There are others, too

 

The Mach-E has one major disadvantage versus Tesla: it charges slow.

 

Not even close but you’re free to believe what you want.  

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22 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

The Mach-E has one major disadvantage versus Tesla: it charges slow.


Vast majority of charging happens overnight at home where charging speed doesn’t matter.  But for the few people that travel with a BEV the Tesla supercharger are an advantage.

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