silvrsvt Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 29 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: "Part of the quality push involves reducing the complexity of the automaker's vehicles, Farley said. For example, the proximity key for the F-150 truck unlocks all four doors, but Farley said consumers only use it for the front doors, meaning Ford can eliminate two sensors — a manufacturing cost savings and a potential reduction in warranty risk." So on an $80,000 truck you have to unlock the doors manually if you want to put anything in the backseat before you get into it. That is not going to save you warranty costs that going to save you production costs. Warranty costs are going to come down from actually demanding the highest quality components from a supplier not the lowest cost ones. Or you reach into your pocket and hit the keyfob? In the grand scheme of things, its not a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: "Part of the quality push involves reducing the complexity of the automaker's vehicles, Farley said. For example, the proximity key for the F-150 truck unlocks all four doors, but Farley said consumers only use it for the front doors, meaning Ford can eliminate two sensors — a manufacturing cost savings and a potential reduction in warranty risk." So on an $80,000 truck you have to unlock the doors manually if you want to put anything in the backseat before you get into it. That is not going to save you warranty costs that going to save you production costs. Warranty costs are going to come down from actually demanding the highest quality components from a supplier not the lowest cost ones. As stated you just touch the front handle first then open the back door. Our 2014 Escape was like that. Not a big deal. But I think the warranty risk is that if the part is bad you only have to replace half as many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, mackinaw said: I'm surprised that any supplier would ship parts that could be up to 1/3rd defective. Wouldn't that be based on the sum of all parts from all suppliers for all models... Edited November 24, 2020 by CoolScoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Further proof that Farley is taking quality seriously. Having a separate person in charge of quality, and vehicle launches. From the Detroit Free Press: "Meanwhile, Linda Cash, 58, "has elected to retire" effective Jan. 1, marking the end of an "outstanding 36 years" with the company, the last three as vice president, Quality and New Model Launch Program," Ford said. As a result, Ford is splitting her one job into two — quality and new model launches." https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/11/24/ford-cmo-farley-deering-linda-cash-sankaran/6404894002/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, CoolScoop said: Wouldn't that be based on the sum of all parts from all suppliers for all models... Could be, but the take home message is that too many suppliers are delivering defective parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 36 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Could be, but the take home message is that too many suppliers are delivering defective parts. Yes - and that’s on Ford. Otherwise we’d be hearing the same woes about suppliers from the other makers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 40 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Further proof that Farley is taking quality seriously. Having a separate person in charge of quality, and vehicle launches. Dont forget Farley came from Lexus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, akirby said: Dont forget Farley came from Lexus. Thats good... as long as we don't start seeing Fords with big ass ugly grills, lol! Edited November 24, 2020 by CoolScoop 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: Yes - and that’s on Ford. Otherwise we’d be hearing the same woes about suppliers from the other makers. I agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FR739 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mackinaw said: Could be, but the take home message is that too many suppliers are delivering defective parts. I’m not so sure. I have sympathy for the suppliers. Hackett pushed them to get their prices so low that he maintained a minimum profit percentage per vehicle. As a result, suppliers took the job (because who would turn down business) and (as expected) produced parts that were subpar. But then one has to ask, are they sub par because of Fords engineering or because a supplier found a way to make it $0.03 cents cheaper giving them a tiny bit more profit? The article makes it sound that a majority of the time it was Ford engineering. Personally, at the end of the day, there are very few instances where it’s a “supplier issue”. I’ll accept the Takata airbags as a supplier problem or an unauthorized change in materials etc. But generally, a manufacturer says “build me this based on these specs”. The supplier does that. The manufacturer then signs off on the part if it meets their standards and puts in a massive order and then builds with that component. That’s 100% on the manufacturer and I don’t think the supplier should have to eat any of that cost. Edited November 24, 2020 by FR739 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 But the supplier should have some sort of QA/QC program in place. Accepting Ford's statement that 1/3rd of the parts they get are are defective, means that 2/3rds of the parts are okay. This is squarely on the supplier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Warranty costs ballooned under Hackett's three years and one of the big issues was that he cut the teams that checked incoming parts for quality. Without those people doing their jobs, it was inevitable that many problems would be picked up late or not at all. Say what you about screwing down suppliers and them making inferior parts but for Ford to drop the ball checking parts? That is an unforgivable lapse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Warranty costs ballooned under Hackett's three years and one of the big issues was that he cut the teams that checked incoming parts for quality. Without those people doing their jobs, it was inevitable that many problems would be picked up late or not at all. Say what you about screwing down suppliers and them making inferior parts but for Ford to drop the ball checking parts? That is an unforgivable lapse. Agreed, and it's good to see that Farley has brought back quality teams. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, mackinaw said: But the supplier should have some sort of QA/QC program in place. Accepting Ford's statement that 1/3rd of the parts they get are are defective, means that 2/3rds of the parts are okay. This is squarely on the supplier. Thats not at all what Farley said. He said 1/3 of their warranty issues are due to defective parts while 2/3 are design, engineering and manufacturing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Will Ford and GM ever be on top in quality? No. Neither will Tesla. Quality is not a high priority for U.S. based automakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, akirby said: There are 3 areas to product development: design, engineering and testing. Speeding up the design process probably doesn't affect quality and I know a lot of his changes were in this area. Neither does eliminating unnecessary processes and process steps and other overhead. But when you rush engineering and cut back on testing then you risk things slipping by into production. Farley seems to acknowledge this and it sounds like he plans to address that. Testing is probably the easiest area to cut costs. And it’s usually a very bad decision to reduce testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, akirby said: Thats not at all what Farley said. He said 1/3 of their warranty issues are due to defective parts while 2/3 are design, engineering and manufacturing. You are correct, I misread the article. Apologies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I’m glad that Farley is onto this early in his term, I’m sure that this has been well discussed internally and now being implemented. Ford is being flogged by quality costs, you bet they’re listening now, I pray that Ford is a little less fit and a damned site more diligent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, akirby said: Clearly Ford has had suppliers who didn't fix their problems quickly. There's one supplier in particular that comes to mind... they’re TERRIBLE. Edited November 24, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Poke Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: There's one supplier in particular that comes to mind... they’re TERRIBLE. Bad parts all the time that come in from them that we literally have to put straight into the scrap bin. Is there not a process for workers and/or managers who see this problem to report it up the chain so that the supplier is held accountable and/or loses the contract to supply those parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 hours ago, akirby said: I think with the bulk of the new products out or almost out the door (Bronco, Maverick, Bronco Sport, Mach-E, BEV Transit and F150) it will be much easier to slow down and take more time to get things right going forward and stop taking so many chances. Which is what Farley seems to be embracing and that's good news for buyers. It's pretty obvious they've already started slowing things down. My current 6 weeks of layoff is a good example of it. I still have a copy of the bulletin with the layoff schedule for Ranger, when we launched Ranger there wasn't that much time between Preproduction phases after the initial 6 month retooling TLO. Look at how long it took Bronco Sport and Mach E to start up. This isn't something that Farley just came up with last week, it started as soon as it was obvious what a clusterfuck the Explorer/Aviator launch was turning into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Atp's.....this is a direct result of that and why we went elsewhere.....$112k for a gt500 at my dealership with no manual trans is the end result..goodbye ford....the design and quality is truly well below what the others are building....get me a dam f350 lariet, single cab, with long bed and i might come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 hours ago, FR739 said: I have sympathy for the suppliers I don't when they continually fuck up and do absolutely nothing to fix it. Again, there's one in particular I'm thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 40 minutes ago, 1984Poke said: Is there not a process for workers and/or managers who see this problem to report it up the chain so that the supplier is held accountable and/or loses the contract to supply those parts? There is but if the supplier doesn't do anything with that message then all we can do is straight to the scrap bin when bad parts come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 10 hours ago, jasonj80 said: "Part of the quality push involves reducing the complexity of the automaker's vehicles, Farley said. For example, the proximity key for the F-150 truck unlocks all four doors, but Farley said consumers only use it for the front doors, meaning Ford can eliminate two sensors — a manufacturing cost savings and a potential reduction in warranty risk." So on an $80,000 truck you have to unlock the doors manually if you want to put anything in the backseat before you get into it. That is not going to save you warranty costs that going to save you production costs. Warranty costs are going to come down from actually demanding the highest quality components from a supplier not the lowest cost ones. If Ford is cutting out the ability to open the rear doors by touching the rear door handle sensor they are making a mistake. We have a baby and most of the time we are opening the rear doors on our Edge first to put her in. When you're carrying a child in a carseat and a diaper bag, not needing to fumble around with the keyfob or go for the front door handle first to get the rear doors open is an overlooked convenience that I am sure many parents appreciate and will miss when it is gone. I am happy to hear Farley is finally tackling warranty costs but sad to see more boneheaded cost-cutting from Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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