'20 November Sales/Chart

[FordBuyer]

16 minutes ago, Trailhiker said:

But hundreds of thousands of buyers are already ignoring the Escape and buying Rav4, CRV, etc...

Designing a vehicle to attract both types of buyers is the way to go. (inventory, parts, marketing costs etc...)

I'm hoping Bronco Sport becomes so popular that they ditch the Escape and make Bronco Sport in both plants.

Wow. There are real Escape haters on this site. They never miss a chance to diss the Escape. Like everyone wants a boxy CUV that gets noncompetitive/Jeep fuel mileage and can go over rocks. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, Trailhiker said:

But hundreds of thousands of buyers are already ignoring the Escape and buying Rav4, CRV, etc...

Designing a vehicle to attract both types of buyers is the way to go. (inventory, parts, marketing costs etc...)

I'm hoping Bronco Sport becomes so popular that they ditch the Escape and make Bronco Sport in both plants.

I think you misunderstood akirby’s sarcasm.....

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Trailhiker said:

But hundreds of thousands of buyers are already ignoring the Escape and buying Rav4, CRV, etc...

Designing a vehicle to attract both types of buyers is the way to go. (inventory, parts, marketing costs etc...)

I'm hoping Bronco Sport becomes so popular that they ditch the Escape and make Bronco Sport in both plants.

 

It's mind boggling that people think Ford should only make vehicles they like and shouldn't make vehicles they don't like.

 

Trying to straddle both markets and price points is a recipe for disaster.   You can't make it cheap enough to cover the lower price points at a decent profit AND cover the high end Badlands market with all the off road accessories AND cover the high mpg market with one vehicle and be successful.  Too many compromises.

 

This way Escape SE can fill in the low cost slot, Escape Hybrid and PHEV can satisfy the MPG buyers and BS is free to go after the higher end rugged/offroad market.

 

I'm sure if BS demand outstrips Hermosillo and Escape sales tank they would look at expanding to Louisville but I don't see that happening.  They're not going for volume at the expense of margin.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

Ben Hardy on You Tube reviewed a Big Bend model today out of Provo, Utah. That dealership has two. Looks like western states are getting the first shipments trickling in fron Mexico. 

 

Ben Hardy gave it a good review.....good steering feel and sure footed handling with good visibility. Lower trim level didn't impress me and engine sounded strained when floored. Ben called the acceleration "adequate." He said 2.0 would be best option. I agree. 2.0 or forget it. 

Media embargo ends Monday morning. 

[jpd80]

Compact utilities are becoming the new battleground for sales, the trick here is to get your ducks in a row and have multiple vehicles to offer buyers. Not just double down on one type in two plants- Bill Ford is on record as saying he doesn’t want overflow plantts

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Trailhiker said:

But hundreds of thousands of buyers are already ignoring the Escape and buying Rav4, CRV, etc...

Designing a vehicle to attract both types of buyers is the way to go. (inventory, parts, marketing costs etc...)

I'm hoping Bronco Sport becomes so popular that they ditch the Escape and make Bronco Sport in both plants.

Eh, I see your point but it's not necessarily entirely the correct way to go. IMO where Ford didn't do it quite right was having such a long gap between when Escape went on sale and Bronco Sport. Escape has been on sale for a year and a half now and the first Bronco Sports are just making it to dealers now. It should have happened 6 months ago. 

[jpd80]

1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Eh, I see your point but it's not necessarily entirely the correct way to go. IMO where Ford didn't do it quite right was having such a long gap between when Escape went on sale and Bronco Sport. Escape has been on sale for a year and a half now and the first Bronco Sports are just making it to dealers now. It should have happened 6 months ago. 

Imagine having all four  choices launched together or close to each other Escape, Corsair, Bronco Sport and Mustang Mach E.

 

Ford could never be that coordinated.....

[FordBuyer]

15 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Imagine having all four  choices launched together or close to each other Escape, Corsair, Bronco Sport and Mustang Mach E.

 

Ford could never be that coordinated.....

I hate to say it, but the Sport is kind of ho hum. The Mach E offers so much more value for the money. And it is a CUV, sits up high, and can be optioned as AWD. Buy a new F-150 with power generator and a new Mach E and forget the $40,000 Badland Sport. 

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

Ben Hardy on You Tube reviewed a Big Bend model today out of Provo, Utah. That dealership has two. Looks like western states are getting the first shipments trickling in fron Mexico. 

 

Ben Hardy gave it a good review.....good steering feel and sure footed handling with good visibility. Lower trim level didn't impress me and engine sounded strained when floored. Ben called the acceleration "adequate." He said 2.0 would be best option. I agree. 2.0 or forget it. 

I saw that too. The guy was a little too excited by the steering if you ask me. Also I’m not sure how much of an impression he coulda got out of a drive around the block at mostly under 35 mph and on mostly straight roads. But it was cool to see it in action.  When it floored it was pretty telling. It looked pretty slow. 
 

i think this is a good start but it could be better. Exterior design is good although it needs some better wheels. Interior is ok but needs to have some more of the features offered on the escape, especially at its higher price point. 2.0 needs to be optional. All of the sports competition (minus Subaru) are offered in 2WD which allows them to have a much lower starting price. I hope in the future the sport will be offered in 2WD as well. Sync 4 needs to be standard too. I think the OTA updates is huge and would hate to miss out on that for the next 6-8 years if I bought the sport now.

[HotRunrGuy]

2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Ben Hardy on You Tube reviewed a Big Bend model today out of Provo, Utah. That dealership has two. Looks like western states are getting the first shipments trickling in fron Mexico. 

 

Ben Hardy gave it a good review.....good steering feel and sure footed handling with good visibility. Lower trim level didn't impress me and engine sounded strained when floored. Ben called the acceleration "adequate." He said 2.0 would be best option. I agree. 2.0 or forget it. 

 

I've looked at the Order Guide, I've looked at a window sticker. Ben Hardy claims the 1.5L in the Big Bend he tested is a 4-cylinder, not the 3-cylinder like is used in the Escape.  Can anyone find documentation to support the 4-cyl claim?

 

HRG

Edited December 4, 2020 by HotRunrGuy

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 minute ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I've looked at the Order Guide, I've looked at a window sticker. Ben Hardy claims the 1.5L in the Big Bend he tested is a 4-cylinder, not the 3-cylinder like is used in the Escape.  Can anyone find documentation to support the 4-cyl claim?

 

HRG

He is wrong. The 1.5 I4 is no longer in production. 

[akirby]

2 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

He is wrong. The 1.5 I4 is no longer in production. 

It might be in Europe or China but not here.  Definitely I-3

[fuzzymoomoo]

Just now, akirby said:

It might be in Europe or China but not here.  Definitely I-3

Maybe in China, I don't follow what goes on there at all really but I'm 99% sure it's been phased out in Europe too. 

[jpd80]

20 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Maybe in China, I don't follow what goes on there at all really but I'm 99% sure it's been phased out in Europe too. 

Correct, Bridgend in Wales closed in September 2019.

That was when the 1-3 Dragon engine began taking over as 1.5 EB.

Edited December 4, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

Just now, jpd80 said:

Correct, Bridgend in Wales closed in September 2019.

Wikipedia says Mondeo still uses it.

[jpd80]

12 minutes ago, akirby said:

Wikipedia says Mondeo still uses it.

That seems to be only China, everywhere else either uses 2.0 Ecoblue diesel or the 2.0 EB. I think the hybrid is there as well.

 

Ford does some different stuff in China because of tough rules but I think the 1.5 I-4 EB is pretty much extinct now.

Edited December 4, 2020 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

I saw that too. The guy was a little too excited by the steering if you ask me. Also I’m not sure how much of an impression he coulda got out of a drive around the block at mostly under 35 mph and on mostly straight roads. But it was cool to see it in action.  When it floored it was pretty telling. It looked pretty slow. 
 

i think this is a good start but it could be better. Exterior design is good although it needs some better wheels. Interior is ok but needs to have some more of the features offered on the escape, especially at its higher price point. 2.0 needs to be optional. All of the sports competition (minus Subaru) are offered in 2WD which allows them to have a much lower starting price. I hope in the future the sport will be offered in 2WD as well. Sync 4 needs to be standard too. I think the OTA updates is huge and would hate to miss out on that for the next 6-8 years if I bought the sport now.

Good review. Yeah, Ford did a B effort on the Bronco Sport. For the money, Bronco or Mach E is the way to go. I would buy the Crosstrek Sport model before the Bronco Sport. The Crosstrek is cheaper, better interior, better fuel mileage, and has better ground clearance. And much better resale value. Not sure why Ford didn't benchmark the Crosstrek in these important areas like fuel mileage, PRICE, interior, and ground clearance.

[akirby]

23 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

That seems to be only China, everywhere else either uses 2.0 Ecoblue diesel or the 2.0 EB. I think the hybrid is there as well.

It’s on the Ford UK website.

[mackinaw]

51 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

.......Yeah, Ford did a B effort on the Bronco Sport.......

 

Have you driven one?  Sat in the interior?  You seem to be basing your opinion and what somebody else says, somebody you don’t even know, or by looking at pictures on the internet.  Why not test drive one and form your own opinion?  

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

It’s on the Ford UK website.

The October 2020 price list doesn’t have it and when you go to build and price there’s only 2.0 diesel, 2.0 EB or 2.0 hybrid 

Edited December 4, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The October 2020 price list doesn’t have it and when you go to build and price there’s only 2.0 diesel, 2.0 EB or 2.0 hybrid 

I must have been looking at something else.

[CKNSLS]

5 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Wow. There are real Escape haters on this site. They never miss a chance to diss the Escape. Like everyone wants a boxy CUV that gets noncompetitive/Jeep fuel mileage and can go over rocks. 

 

The point is that it's ugly regardless of it's shape.

Arguably the worst looking vehicle in it's class.

The Bronco Sport will sell and the Escape will sit squalid on dealer lots.

Edited December 4, 2020 by CKNSLS

[akirby]

8 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

The point is that it's ugly regardless of it's shape.

Arguably the worst looking vehicle in it's class

Speak for yourself.  

[jpd80]

11 minutes ago, akirby said:

I must have been looking at something else.

Don’t second guess yourself, sometimes the European websites have confusing references to older vehicles, I’ve been caught that way before.

places like Australia opted for the 2.0 EB And diesel but not the hybrids.

Endura (RHD Edge) is now toast here as only diesel and no 2020 builds, just old RHD stock.

[jpd80]

22 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

The point is that it's ugly regardless of it's shape.

Arguably the worst looking vehicle in it's class.

The Bronco Sport will sell and the Escape will sit squalid on dealer lots.

Your prediction may or may not come true but Ford should be doing a lot more  with Escape hybrids and the PHEV. Ford wants higher ATPs but doesn’t seem to  realise that hybrid not EB engines are a better way to achieve that. I think they fluffed badly with not enough battery supply......
In short, I think their Escape product mix is wrong and they haven’t moved quickly enough to cover RAV4 hybrid. Bad or not, that thing is running away with sales especially hybrids and Ford is letting them.

Edited December 4, 2020 by jpd80