'20 November Sales/Chart

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

Have you driven one?  Sat in the interior?  You seem to be basing your opinion and what somebody else says, somebody you don’t even know, or by looking at pictures on the internet.  Why not test drive one and form your own opinion?  

Uh, I drive a 2020 Escape hybrid and the interior is not that different. The Bronco in review has cloth seats and mine has Active X leather. Mine has 10 way power seats and the $30,000 Bronco has manual seats. I would also bet mine is quieter and faster with 2.5L I4 and 15 more hp. And the Bronco gets 26mpg combined and I'm averaging about 50 mpg. So again, why is the Bronco so much better than the Escape hybrid? And Ford could probably sell 100,000 Escape hybrids/year if it had the supply chain like Toyota. 

[silvrsvt]

For people bitching about the 1.5L I3...reviewers are horrible source of information because they aren’t using really basing their decisions on the real world-not every one can or even wants big engine because they can’t  afford it or even want it. 

[akirby]

38 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Uh, I drive a 2020 Escape hybrid and the interior is not that different. The Bronco in review has cloth seats and mine has Active X leather. Mine has 10 way power seats and the $30,000 Bronco has manual seats. I would also bet mine is quieter and faster with 2.5L I4 and 15 more hp. And the Bronco gets 26mpg combined and I'm averaging about 50 mpg. So again, why is the Bronco so much better than the Escape hybrid? And Ford could probably sell 100,000 Escape hybrids/year if it had the supply chain like Toyota. 

Completely different vehicle going after a completely different demographic.   Styling is unique and that’s 50% of the appeal.  The other 50% is off-road capability and accessories.  People who love Bronco sport probably hate escape and vice versa.  MPG and power seats don’t matter.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Speak for yourself.  

I will. I'm not a fan. But I prefer a slightly more aggressive style. This one is too soft for my taste. 

[akirby]

19 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I will. I'm not a fan. But I prefer a slightly more aggressive style. This one is too soft for my taste. 

But do you think it’s downright ugly and the worst looking one in the class?

[rmc523]

23 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I bet they’re shaving inventory to keep prices higher for walk in buyers who want something right now.

 

Could be.  But I think it's just the dealer group itself - they do some....odd....things.  I keep forgetting to drive by their get-ready lot.

 

2 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 

The point is that it's ugly regardless of it's shape.

Arguably the worst looking vehicle in it's class.

The Bronco Sport will sell and the Escape will sit squalid on dealer lots.

 

Boring perhaps, but it's far from ugly.

 

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

For people bitching about the 1.5L I3...reviewers are horrible source of information because they aren’t using really basing their decisions on the real world-not every one can or even wants big engine because they can’t  afford it or even want it. 

 

I've driven one - it's nowhere near as bad as they make it out to be.  Maybe not the best thing since sliced bread, but it seemed just fine to me.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

For people bitching about the 1.5L I3...reviewers are horrible source of information because they aren’t using really basing their decisions on the real world-not every one can or even wants big engine because they can’t  afford it or even want it. 

 

A test drive will confirm that the 1.5L Dragon engine has very pronounced noise and vibration. It may be OK for some customers of Ford Bronco Sport who think of a rough and tumble image for that vehicle. But for Ford Escape customers, the 3-cylinder's NVH is too annoying to live with as CR said in its review. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

17 minutes ago, akirby said:

But do you think it’s downright ugly and the worst looking one in the class?

No, that goes to anything by Toyota with their jagged lines and harsh angles. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Boring perhaps, but it's far from ugly.

I can agree with that 

 

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I've driven one - it's nowhere near as bad as they make it out to be.  Maybe not the best thing since sliced bread, but it seemed just fine to me.

That's the point. It's the base engine. It's supposed to be just, fine. You want better you pay for the upgrade. That's how this works. That's how this has always worked. 

[FordBuyer]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

But do you think it’s downright ugly and the worst looking one in the class?

In the past, boxy was popular. Now its sharp edges and curved lines. While the Bronco Sport has a nice retro look, it's not exactly cutting edge. My 1985 Bronco II was boxy and cute too and could go over and through just about any obstruction with front and rear locking axles and Wrangler tires. 

 

"Some" people want a more refined look and ride, but still want cargo room, ability to tow, great fuel mileage, quieter ride, and ability to go through snow and deep puddles. A la the Escape. Those who want a more refined, modern Bronco II now have the Bronco Sport. As they say, different strokes for different folks.

 

For those who live in Michigan and love their poor to terrible, cratered roads, the Bronco Sport or Bronco is a good choice, especially in the spring when the roads look like a moonscape. 

[rmc523]

24 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

A test drive will confirm that the 1.5L Dragon engine has very pronounced noise and vibration. It may be OK for some customers of Ford Bronco Sport who think of a rough and tumble image for that vehicle. But for Ford Escape customers, the 3-cylinder's NVH is too annoying to live with as CR said in its review. 

 

There was no "very pronounced" noise and vibration in what I drove.  Yes, there was noise and vibration, but it's an engine.

[FordBuyer]

1 minute ago, rmc523 said:

 

There was no "very pronounced" noise and vibration in what I drove.  Yes, there was noise and vibration, but it's an engine.

What's surprising by this is that Ford is usually very good at NVH. So I kind of doubt that this engine emits unacceptable vibration. The Ben Hardy review didn't emit terrible vibration. Not as much noise as the Rav 4. It's the kind of engine you get in a low $20,000 vehicle nowadays. Now for $30,000+, I would demand more. The 2.0 should be standard on mid level trim and up IMO.

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I can agree with that 

 

That's the point. It's the base engine. It's supposed to be just, fine. You want better you pay for the upgrade. That's how this works. That's how this has always worked. 

It’s not just the base engine, it’s the only engine for 3 of the 4 trims. That’s the problem. In the escape, the SE has the optional hybrid, the SEL has the optional 2.0, and the titanium has the 2.0 and hybrid. You have choices on every trim except the base S. The Sport should be similar, with only the base model not having an engine choice. 
 

Since they named it the “bronco sport” and its supposed to be the sporty off-road alternative to the escape, you would have thought they would have given it the option of the sportier engine. If you want people to pay a premium for the product, you have to make it premium. Slapping the bronco name on it will only command a premium for so long.

Edited December 5, 2020 by T-dubz

[akirby]

31 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

It’s not just the base engine, it’s the only engine for 3 of the 4 trims. That’s the problem. In the escape, the SE has the optional hybrid, the SEL has the optional 2.0, and the titanium has the 2.0 and hybrid. You have choices on every trim except the base S. The Sport should be similar, with only the base model not having an engine choice. 
 

Since they named it the “bronco sport” and its supposed to be the sporty off-road alternative to the escape, you would have thought they would have given it the option of the sportier engine. If you want people to pay a premium for the product, you have to make it premium. Slapping the bronco name on it will only command a premium for so long.

Badlands with the 2.0 and bigger wheels and tires and off-road suspension is very premium.

[akirby]

Premium in this context doesn’t mean luxury.  It means Bronco Sport will be at the high end of the ATP range for the class, have lots of expensive accessories and sell without big rebates.  

[CKNSLS]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

No, that goes to anything by Toyota with their jagged lines and harsh angles. 

I guess that is why Toyota sold like 120,000 units and the Escape sold like 47,000 units the last three months.

 

Granted COVID came in to play here but  CUV buyers seem to like "jagged lines".

Edited December 5, 2020 by CKNSLS

[akirby]

7 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

I guess that is why Toyota sold like 120,000 units and the Escape sold like 47,000 units the last three months.

 

Granted COVID came in to play here but  CUV buyers seem to like "jagged lines".

And they bought just as many of these Rav4s without the jagged lines.  Not to mention Hyundai, Honda, etc.  It’s because Toyota not because jagged lines.  It’s also about hybrids and for some reason Ford isnt making enough hybrid escapes.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

I guess that is why Toyota sold like 120,000 units and the Escape sold like 47,000 units the last three months.

 

Granted COVID came in to play here but  CUV buyers seem to like "jagged lines".

I already said I was speaking for myself. Try and keep up. 

[tbone]

14 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

A test drive will confirm that the 1.5L Dragon engine has very pronounced noise and vibration. It may be OK for some customers of Ford Bronco Sport who think of a rough and tumble image for that vehicle. But for Ford Escape customers, the 3-cylinder's NVH is too annoying to live with as CR said in its review. 

I bought a 2020 Escape for my daughter. You can hear the motor, but it is not an annoying or unacceptable. I’m not clear what vibration they could be talking about as I do not feel any.  It is not the fastest motor, but it is more than adequate. My benchmark is my in-laws Toyota RAV4. I think some forget the Japanese manufacturers have never really waged horsepower wars, but they sure have sold a lot of vehicles with adequate power. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 minutes ago, tbone said:

I bought a 2020 Escape for my daughter. You can hear the motor, but it is not an annoying or unacceptable. I’m not clear what vibration they could be talking about as I do not feel any.  It is not the fastest motor, but it is more than adequate. My benchmark is my in-laws Toyota RAV4. I think some forget the Japanese manufacturers have never really waged horsepower wars, but they sure have sold a lot of vehicles with adequate power. 

Which again, is why the 1.5 is the standard engine. It's Adequate. You want the bigger engine, you pay for the upgrade. That's how this has always worked. 

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, tbone said:

I’m not clear what vibration they could be talking about as I do not feel any. 

 

In the Escape SE I test drove, the engine vibration felt through the steering wheel and driver's seat was most pronounced when the vehicle was idling with the gear selector in Drive, when accelerating, and when cruising at speeds between 5 and 45 mph. It was less pronounced though still noticeable when the vehicle was idling with gear selector in Park or Neutral, and when driving at freeway or rural highway speeds (50 mph or faster). 

[rperez817]

16 hours ago, T-dubz said:

It’s not just the base engine, it’s the only engine for 3 of the 4 trims. That’s the problem. In the escape, the SE has the optional hybrid, the SEL has the optional 2.0, and the titanium has the 2.0 and hybrid. You have choices on every trim except the base S. The Sport should be similar, with only the base model not having an engine choice. 
 

Since they named it the “bronco sport” and its supposed to be the sporty off-road alternative to the escape, you would have thought they would have given it the option of the sportier engine. If you want people to pay a premium for the product, you have to make it premium. Slapping the bronco name on it will only command a premium for so long.

 

Good explanation T-dubz sir. For 2021, Ford expanded availability of the Hybrid on Escape to include the SEL model. Maybe Ford will do something similar for the 2nd model year of Bronco Sport and make either 2.0L or Hybrid powertrain available on that model for 2022.

 

The 3-cylinder engine is OK for the base version of Bronco Sport. But for Big Bend and Outer Banks editions which cost $30k or more, the 2.0L and Hybrid engines should at least be optional as you recommended. 

[T-dubz]

8 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good explanation T-dubz sir. For 2021, Ford expanded availability of the Hybrid on Escape to include the SEL model. Maybe Ford will do something similar for the 2nd model year of Bronco Sport and make either 2.0L or Hybrid powertrain available on that model for 2022.

 

The 3-cylinder engine is OK for the base version of Bronco Sport. But for Big Bend and Outer Banks editions which cost $30k or more, the 2.0L and Hybrid engines should at least be optional as you recommended. 

It’s the smart thing to do. It’s probably the biggest complaint you hear about the sport. Unless it’s extremely expensive to put the 2.0 in other trims (which I doubt) ford is just throwing money away by not offering it.

[jpd80]

Let’s see how they sell first  before condemning the decision outright, maybe most buyers of those lower trims will be happy with the baby Ecoboost. Ford is limiting engine choice on first year builds so maybe they know the answer already...

Edited December 6, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Let’s see how they sell first  before condemning the decision outright, maybe most buyers of those lower trims will be happy with the baby Ecoboost. Ford is limiting engine choice on first year builds so maybe they know the answer already...

Most lower end buyers won’t know or care about the engine.  Those that do probably want the badlands model anyway.  I’m sure they’ll offer the 2.0 on mid trims in a year or two.