Deanh Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 hours ago, bzcat said: The $7,500 is a tax credit that the vehicle owner can use in the tax return. If you are leasing, Ford Credit is the owner and will get the tax credit. But Ford Credit will be foolish to not give that to the lease customer as a rebate - it's been industry standard practice. problem is , the $ come from the GOVT and they still owe a Ford SH--LOAD of incentives they passed onto consumers on the Energis….So, the GOVT footdragging has Ford out of pocket to the tune of a ridiculous amount, Ford used to pass on the incentive to be used as a cap reduction, but when you are not re-imbursed said money, I guess youd think twice about passing it on BREFORE its received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Deanh said: problem is , the $ come from the GOVT and they still owe a Ford SH--LOAD of incentives they passed onto consumers on the Energis….So, the GOVT footdragging has Ford out of pocket to the tune of a ridiculous amount, Ford used to pass on the incentive to be used as a cap reduction, but when you are not re-imbursed said money, I guess youd think twice about passing it on BREFORE its received. Once again, government ends up f-ing the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Deanh said: problem is , the $ come from the GOVT and they still owe a Ford SH--LOAD of incentives they passed onto consumers on the Energis….So, the GOVT footdragging has Ford out of pocket to the tune of a ridiculous amount, Ford used to pass on the incentive to be used as a cap reduction, but when you are not re-imbursed said money, I guess youd think twice about passing it on BREFORE its received. That's not how it works. Govt doesn't "reimburse" Ford. Ford has the credit to use on its tax return. It reduces Ford's tax burden. Ford doesn't need to apply for an reimbursement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 57 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Once again, government ends up f-ing the people. Gee, I guess you are not ready for Medicare and Social Security yet let alone Interstate and intrastate freeways. Screw the new Gordie Howe bridge that is being built by the Canadian Government. Long live the dated potholed Ambassador Bridge before it falls into the Detroit River. Yesh, I hate that government that deposits SS money into my account every month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, bzcat said: That's not how it works. Govt doesn't "reimburse" Ford. Ford has the credit to use on its tax return. It reduces Ford's tax burden. Ford doesn't need to apply for an reimbursement. Perhaps...Im not 100 %, but I was told the numbers were in the Billions and is the reason Ford isn't showing and side stepping the tax break as a rebate....Tesla circumvented the issue...never passed it on, showed the net price after incentive with an asterix…*consumer must apply directly for the incentve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 47 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Gee, I guess you are not ready for Medicare and Social Security yet let alone Interstate and intrastate freeways. Screw the new Gordie Howe bridge that is being built by the Canadian Government. Long live the dated potholed Ambassador Bridge before it falls into the Detroit River. Yesh, I hate that government that deposits SS money into my account every month. by the time I'm old enough to retire, social security won't exist, and I'm ok with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Deanh said: Perhaps...Im not 100 %, but I was told the numbers were in the Billions and is the reason Ford isn't showing and side stepping the tax break as a rebate....Tesla circumvented the issue...never passed it on, showed the net price after incentive with an asterix…*consumer must apply directly for the incentve... Tesla didn't offer lease initially so it wasn't an issue - the only way to get a Tesla was to buy it. They only started leasing in 2019 when the tax credit ran out. If Ford wants to lease MACH E, they have to give the tax credit as a rebate... it's basically expected. If Ford doesn't do it, it will just generate unnecessary bad press. And again, you don't apply for anything with the Federal EV tax credit. It's a tax credit so you have to have enough taxable income (and therefore tax liability) to use it. Leasing an EV is more attractive because not everyone has enough tax liability to be able to use the full $7,500 credit. The bank (in this case would be Ford Credit) gets the full $7,500 tax credit and the average Joe that lease the MACH E can use the rebate as cap reduction to lower the payment. As a car sales person, I thought you would be more up to speed on how this works. BTW, I would check your source. What you are saying doesn't make a lick of sense as to why Ford is not offering to pass on the tax credit. The Govt is not withholding billions of tax credit and not giving it to Ford. That's not how tax credit works. They are Ford's credit and Ford most likely already used them to reduce its taxes. Edited December 22, 2020 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, bzcat said: Tesla didn't offer lease initially so it wasn't an issue - the only way to get a Tesla was to buy it. They only started leasing in 2019 when the tax credit ran out. If Ford wants to lease MACH E, they have to give the tax credit as a rebate... it's basically expected. If Ford doesn't do it, it will just generate unnecessary bad press. And again, you don't apply for anything with the Federal EV tax credit. It's a tax credit so you have to have enough taxable income (and therefore tax liability) to use it. Leasing an EV is more attractive because not everyone has enough tax liability to be able to use the full $7,500 credit. The bank (in this case would be Ford Credit) gets the full $7,500 tax credit and the average Joe that lease the MACH E can use the rebate as cap reduction to lower the payment. As a car sales person, I thought you would be more up to speed on how this works. BTW, I would check your source. What you are saying doesn't make a lick of sense as to why Ford is not offering to pass on the tax credit. The Govt is not withholding billions of tax credit and not giving it to Ford. That's not how tax credit works. They are Ford's credit and Ford most likely already used them to reduce its taxes. I do know exactly how it works, now if you would kindly explain why its absent and thus far NOT being passed on?... hey, don't shoot the messenger...but as of right now theres NO $7500 on the Mach Es as a lease incentive, so I started asking questions...just relaying what I was told. Regardless, the $7500 being absent raises huge questions regarding the "E's" immediate future...pkus, the fact I have one on order made me curious...if its not thereI for one wont tolerate the payments Ford expects , thus my ire, seems to me they are shooting themselves in the foot...but my bet would be they will address it...they kinda have to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Deanh said: I do know exactly how it works, now if you would kindly explain why its absent and thus far NOT being passed on?... hey, don't shoot the messenger...but as of right now theres NO $7500 on the Mach Es as a lease incentive, so I started asking questions...just relaying what I was told. Regardless, the $7500 being absent raises huge questions regarding the "E's" immediate future...pkus, the fact I have one on order made me curious...if its not thereI for one wont tolerate the payments Ford expects , thus my ire, seems to me they are shooting themselves in the foot...but my bet would be they will address it...they kinda have to. You’re not the only one. The lack of that federal incentive is going to lead to a lot of cancelled orders and/or unsold cars sitting on the lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: You’re not the only one. The lack of that federal incentive is going to lead to a lot of cancelled orders and/or unsold cars sitting on the lot. But doesn't that incentive (or lack of it) only apply to leases? People who purchase should be able to claim the tax credit. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: But doesn't that incentive (or lack of it) only apply to leases? People who purchase should be able to claim the tax credit. HRG Yes. It just means that Ford would rather sell them than lease them and with only 20K to sell in the US it shouldn’t be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 12/20/2020 at 10:27 PM, CoolScoop said: ^^^Both our Aviator and daughters Escape have Fords new pull twice method to open the hood. The first pull pops the hood and the second releases the safety latch. IMO it's a big improvement over the ancient pull once then find the safety latch under the hood method... Yes, it is real nice after you quit looking for the second latch and just lift the hood. I mistakenly thought another layer of safety was added requiring pull twice and then release the safety latch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, akirby said: Yes. It just means that Ford would rather sell them than lease them and with only 20K to sell in the US it shouldn’t be a problem. Or have people use “Ford Options” instead of a lease. https://www.ford.com/finance/finance-options/ford-options Edited December 23, 2020 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, sullynd said: Or have people use “Ford Options” instead of a lease. https://www.ford.com/finance/finance-options/ford-options Well that’s new. It’s essentially a lease but the buyer retains ownership of the vehicle and therefore gets the tax credit not Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, sullynd said: Or have people use “Ford Options” instead of a lease. https://www.ford.com/finance/finance-options/ford-options That's different. I'm sure you can finance that balloon payment through a third party bank/credit union too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, akirby said: Well that’s new. It’s essentially a lease but the buyer retains ownership of the vehicle and therefore gets the tax credit not Ford. It was announced back in June, and has been discussed extensively on Mach-E sites (I have one on order). I wonder if Dean is/was aware of it, not a knock on Dean, but on Ford if not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: That's different. I'm sure you can finance that balloon payment through a third party bank/credit union too. That “balloon payment” is just the lease buyout under a new name. They did something similar in NY where Ford got stuck with parking tickets - called it RCO - red carpet ownership instead of red carpet lease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 4 hours ago, sullynd said: It was announced back in June, and has been discussed extensively on Mach-E sites (I have one on order). I wonder if Dean is/was aware of it, not a knock on Dean, but on Ford if not. hasn't been lobbied with us for sure, I would bet it will be closer to release time...bottom line is Ford needs some sort of program to lower those monthly's….because right now their regular RCL isn't competitive in the slightest....in fact IMO it will scare more customers away than anything else...so I guess its a wait and see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, Deanh said: hasn't been lobbied with us for sure, I would bet it will be closer to release time...bottom line is Ford needs some sort of program to lower those monthly's….because right now their regular RCL isn't competitive in the slightest....in fact IMO it will scare more customers away than anything else...so I guess its a wait and see... Typical for Ford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Deanh said: I do know exactly how it works, now if you would kindly explain why its absent and thus far NOT being passed on?... hey, don't shoot the messenger...but as of right now theres NO $7500 on the Mach Es as a lease incentive, so I started asking questions...just relaying what I was told. Regardless, the $7500 being absent raises huge questions regarding the "E's" immediate future...pkus, the fact I have one on order made me curious...if its not thereI for one wont tolerate the payments Ford expects , thus my ire, seems to me they are shooting themselves in the foot...but my bet would be they will address it...they kinda have to. Indeed, they are shooting themselves in the foot. The only plausible and logical reason I can think of is that Ford Credit doesn't want to guarantee the residual value on a new EV with no resale history. It's easy to say it will have residual target like Tesla and we can lease out every unit at $699 but someone has to explain to the boss why it won't have actual resale value % like Leaf. If Ford does indeed launch the car without any lease program and $7,500 rebate, I think there will be a lot of cancelations. Maybe they are waiting to see how many cancelation they get in the first couple of months before rolling out a lease program. Edited December 23, 2020 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, bzcat said: Indeed, they are shooting themselves in the foot. The only plausible and logical reason I can think of is that Ford Credit doesn't want to guarantee the residual value on a new EV with no resale history. It's easy to say it will have residual target like Tesla and we can lease out every unit at $699 but someone has to explain to the boss why it won't have actual resale value % like Leaf. ...or the Cmax, or the Energis….or, or or....the resale record isn't anything to be proud of at all....scary even if youre a manufacturer setting residual....DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Car and Driver posted numbers from its Mustang Mach-E performance testing. The version they got was Premium eAWD with 88 kWh battery. Tested: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Is Ford's Best EV Ever (caranddriver.com) PRICE AS TESTED $56,200 (base price: $46,695) C/D TEST RESULTS 60 mph: 5.1 sec 100 mph: 13.5 sec Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.2 sec Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.0 sec Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.8 sec 1/4 mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph Top speed (governor limited): 114 mph Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.85 g Standing-start accel times omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec. C/D FUEL ECONOMY Observed: 60 MPGe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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