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Ford/Mahindra partnership ends


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Ford's product plan for low cost CUV is a mess... 

 

BX755 - Brazil developed 4.2 meter EcoSport

BX784 - Brazil developed 4.4 meter Territory replacement

BX785 - coupe version of 784

 

BX744 - India developed 4 meter EcoSport (originally also to replace Mahindra XUV300)

BX745 - India developed 4.2 meter EcoSport (export version of 744)

BX772 - India developed 4.3 meter 7 seat EcoSport (originally also twined with Mahindra XUV 400)

CX757 - Mahindra XUV500 based 4.4 meter C-segment CUV

 

What's known is the three Brazil projects were all near production but cancelled. And this is just my personal speculation but BX745 and BX755 were probably very similar but had different program codes because they had completely different drivetrains - 755 used Ford engines while 745 used Mahindra engines. 

 

The latest news from India seems to suggest BX744 and BX772 are still alive but will now have Ford engines. And CX757 will go away in favor of Territory but BX784 was cancelled so where is this new Territory coming from? And no mention of global market EcoSport replacement (745/755). 

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It looks like Ford India is not getting a Brazilian afterall... To me, shared projects aimed at Southeast Asia, South America and Southern Africa should go hand in hand to cut costs but Ford seems to be overspending in overlapping products, changing its mind many times and eventually going different ways...

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  • 3 months later...

"Earlier this week, there were reports about Ford exploring contract manufacturing opportunities in India. But, according to a new report, the carmaker may be planning to wrap up its India operations completely."

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/ford-looks-to-wrap-up-india-factory-ops-soon/articleshow/84421288.cms

 

Well, I guess we know how this ends...

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3 hours ago, bzcat said:

Now it is clear... cutting ties with Mahindra was the first step in the exit strategy. 

 

Gutting EcoSport replacement was step two.

 

Now the final act. 

Remember Farley's Tweet with his desire of bringing the Puma here? I'm wondering if he had already wanted to exit India for some time now and was actually hinting the Puma to be the EcoSport replacement?

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37 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

Remember Farley's Tweet with his desire of bringing the Puma here? I'm wondering if he had already wanted to exit India for some time now and was actually hinting the Puma to be the EcoSport replacement?

 

Anyone can see that Puma was more suited for US market than EcoSport so the tweet itself isn't that revealing. 

 

I think he was actually throwing shade at both Americas and Indian product team because they pushed for their own EcoSport replacements (2 different ones) instead of Puma. Look at the timing:

 

1/13/2021: Farley cancelled BX755 EcoSport and shut down Brazil.

2/15/2021, he tweeted Puma saying "wish it came to NA and other markets". 

2/18/2021, Ford announced it was freezing product development in India (including BX744 EcoSport which was going to use Mahindra engines)

 

If that is not throwing shade, I don't know what it is... 

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49 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Anyone can see that Puma was more suited for US market than EcoSport so the tweet itself isn't that revealing. 


What better evidence of that is there than the fact that there's no inventory anywhere and every dealer around me still has the same 3-4 EcoSports sitting on their lots they've had for who knows how long. The only reason it's here is it was an easy way to fill the gap that discontinuing Fiesta left and maybe make a little more money on it since there was little investment needed to do so. 

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

I think he was actually throwing shade at both Americas and Indian product team because they pushed for their own EcoSport replacements (2 different ones) instead of Puma.

 

 

 

Indeed, very bad decision to have India and Brazil developing different equivalent products.

 

Puma is great (a shame Ford chose the Ecosport for the US market) but everyone says it's too expensive for emerging markets. I don't understand why Ford can't have a competitive global CUV whereas Jeep manages to be competitive with Renegade and Compass in most markets, from N.A. and Europe to India and LatAm. Why does Ford need Puma, Ecosport and all the other BX-mess projects?

 

Anyway, I think Ford Brazil and Ford India go hand in hand, as they share R&D costs... If you want to succeed and offer vehicles minimally adapted to these markets, you can't have one without the other. So the fate of Ford India has turned gloomy since the shut down of Camaçari. The present choreography in India resembles Ford's little dance in Brazil: letting locals carry on "future" projects (Ecosport's n-th facelift), gathering dealers and showing these "plans" (suggesting bringing the Territory from China will be a great hit), denying any rumours on the press, saying they are "committed" to the country... Until one day workers are not allowed into the plants and resale values plummet.

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


What better evidence of that is there than the fact that there's no inventory anywhere and every dealer around me still has the same 3-4 EcoSports sitting on their lots they've had for who knows how long. The only reason it's here is it was an easy way to fill the gap that discontinuing Fiesta left and maybe make a little more money on it since there was little investment needed to do so. 

FoA gave up on Ecosport because they just couldn’t sell the darn things at the AUS$25k starting price

but now the more upmarket Puma starts AUS$5k higher, great opportunity for US Bronco Sport & Puma.

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3 hours ago, bzcat said:

Anyone can see that Puma was more suited for US market than EcoSport so the tweet itself isn't that revealing.

 

The Tweet was revealing in a way, so to speak, since the Puma was originally announced that it wasn't intended for America when it was unveiled.

 

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

I think he was actually throwing shade at both Americas and Indian product team because they pushed for their own EcoSport replacements (2 different ones) instead of Puma. Look at the timing:

 

1/13/2021: Farley cancelled BX755 EcoSport and shut down Brazil.

2/15/2021, he tweeted Puma saying "wish it came to NA and other markets". 

2/18/2021, Ford announced it was freezing product development in India (including BX744 EcoSport which was going to use Mahindra engines)

 

If that is not throwing shade, I don't know what it is... 

 

Agreed. We'll see how it happens going forward regarding both India and the Puma.

 

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Given the Mavericks price point, the Ecosport is even more dead in the NA marketplace. 

 

Given the choice between the two, I'd rather have the Maverick. 

 

The Puma might be an interesting addition to the NA market, but not quite sure how the pricing would work with the Escape starting at $25K. If they can get it around the level of what the Ecosport is and sell it without incentives. 

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On 7/16/2021 at 8:32 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:


What better evidence of that is there than the fact that there's no inventory anywhere and every dealer around me still has the same 3-4 EcoSports sitting on their lots they've had for who knows how long. The only reason it's here is it was an easy way to fill the gap that discontinuing Fiesta left and maybe make a little more money on it since there was little investment needed to do so. 

 

Subcompact cars are a hard sell in the US. I went past a local Chevy dealer last week and they mostly had Trailblazers and Bolts in stock. Just on looks alone the Trailblazer is better than an Ecosport. 

 

I went past a Ford dealership this evening, and they where light on stock, but for some reason had 4 Mach Es on the lot. I was slightly suprised by that.

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  • 1 month later...
28 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

So, what does that mean for the EcoSport going forward?? In my opinion Ford should scrap the EcoSport altogether and get the Ford Puma over to N/A built somewhere in a North American plant.

 

It seems that Ford's announcement regarding vehicle production in India will mean the end of the EcoSport, especially with Ford's introduction of the new Maverick which it expects to attract sedan and other buyers due to its low price point. While outdated, the EcoSport isn't a bad vehicle but, even with sizeable incentives, it just isn't producing the sales volume to justify investing in a next generation. Even so, there are many car buyers that simply won't want to drive a Maverick regardless of how attractive the price is. 

 

While the Ford Puma has been so favorably received and has Jim Farley's support, it's a matter of whether Ford can sell the Puma in North America at a price point that will be attractive to customers and at a volume to justify selling it here and meet Ford's profit objective.   

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Good analysis, I agree with your assessment. I still hope Ford can somehow get the price right and get that Puma over here. The Ecosport is bland even if decent, the Puma is a far superior product from what I see. You’re correct not everyone is gonna want a Maverick which is in my opinion  even more reason to bring over the Puma.

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2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

So what does that mean for the Ecosport going forward?? In my opinion Ford should scrap the Ecosport altogether and get the Ford Puma over to N/A built somewhere in A North America plant.

 

Reported today that the facelift Ecosport has been cancelled. So Ecosport must be dead for 2022MY. Ford does need something in this space since it abandoned the sedan segment. It will take at least a couple years I would think to come up with a competitive subcompact CUV for around $19,995 base price. Not everyone wants a pickup. I would think any Ecosport replacement would have to be built in Mexico or Valencia, Spain.

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17 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Reported today that the facelift Ecosport has been cancelled. So Ecosport must be dead for 2022MY. Ford does need something in this space since it abandoned the sedan segment. It will take at least a couple years I would think to come up with a competitive subcompact CUV for around $19,995 base price. Not everyone wants a pickup. I would think any Ecosport replacement would have to be built in Mexico or Valencia, Spain.

I agree, I was thinking thinking Mexico. I know this is a bit of a left turn but I’m still wondering about this so called fusion active. I’m wondering if that will be happening. Good riddance to the bland Ecosport! 

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Reported today that the facelift Ecosport has been cancelled. So Ecosport must be dead for 2022MY. Ford does need something in this space since it abandoned the sedan segment. It will take at least a couple years I would think to come up with a competitive subcompact CUV for around $19,995 base price. Not everyone wants a pickup. I would think any Ecosport replacement would have to be built in Mexico or Valencia, Spain.

 

 

The thing is that Maverick is far better value then a say a Civic or Soul.

 

Its starting price is cheaper then either and you can get it as a hybrid as an entry level model, which is a huge cost savings right there. Not to mention its far more flexible for when you need a bed to haul around things and don't need something the size of a Ranger or F-150

 

Only leg you have to stand on is maybe form factor preference-but I think overall the Maverick is going to be very hard to beat in the low 20K range if your worried about stretching your dollars out. 

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32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

The thing is that Maverick is far better value then a say a Civic or Soul.

 

Its starting price is cheaper then either and you can get it as a hybrid as an entry level model, which is a huge cost savings right there. Not to mention its far more flexible for when you need a bed to haul around things and don't need something the size of a Ranger or F-150

 

Only leg you have to stand on is maybe form factor preference-but I think overall the Maverick is going to be very hard to beat in the low 20K range if your worried about stretching your dollars out. 

 

The Ecosport was popular around here because it was stubby and very easy to park and fit very nicely in the small villa courtyard garages that are more like condos. 

 

Now the 4dr. cab Maverick is much longer and yes will fit lots of lifestyles, but it's not a stubby CUV that fits other lifestyles. 

 

I get it that Ford may not want to invest a lot of capital in all new subcompact CUV and may choose not to. Not sure how big this segment is and how overcrowded already. So wouldn't be surprised if Ford chooses to invest somewhere else. To me anyway, the Puma is too much like the Escape and thus redundant. But then again FOE sells both the Kuga and Puma and both seem to do well. 

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3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

It seems that Ford's announcement regarding vehicle production in India will mean the end of the EcoSport, especially with Ford's introduction of the new Maverick which it expects to attract sedan and other buyers due to its low price point. While outdated, the EcoSport isn't a bad vehicle but, even with sizeable incentives, it just isn't producing the sales volume to justify investing in a next generation. Even so, there are many car buyers that simply won't want to drive a Maverick regardless of how attractive the price is. 

 

While the Ford Puma has been so favorably received and has Jim Farley's support, it's a matter of whether Ford can sell the Puma in North America at a price point that will be attractive to customers and at a volume to justify selling it here and meet Ford's profit objective.   

 

I think it's a catch 22 - EcoSport while "ok" isn't the best product, so sales may not be as high as they could be with a better product, but as you sayd, the numbers may not justify investment in a replacement.

 

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Reported today that the facelift Ecosport has been cancelled. So Ecosport must be dead for 2022MY. Ford does need something in this space since it abandoned the sedan segment. It will take at least a couple years I would think to come up with a competitive subcompact CUV for around $19,995 base price. Not everyone wants a pickup. I would think any Ecosport replacement would have to be built in Mexico or Valencia, Spain.

 

Well, they cancelled the planned Maverick twin crossover.

I'd love to see something like Puma come over, but who knows if it was engineered to meet US standards.

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2 hours ago, Rodrigo said:

Ford is slowly killing platform B, we will have to see how the Puma and Fiesta can survive. Ecosport is dead, it only remains in Romania,

 

Ford is killing cheap cars, not B platform. Puma is the best selling Ford model in Europe... it's not in any danger.

 

There will be no internal combustion engine replacement for any of the B-platform cars. Ford will move Fiesta and Puma straight into MEB based EV.

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