silvrsvt Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: So what happened to the "white space" Fusion Active? Maybe it will have a more formal roofline like a wagon or they where talking about the Maverick as the “white space” vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) It’s a shame it won’t be offered here. That’s a good looking vehicle. Edited April 20, 2021 by T-dubz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Maybe it will have a more formal roofline like a wagon or they where talking about the Maverick as the “white space” vehicle. Farley said Fusion name will come back so Maverick wasn't what he was talking about. But quite possibly there will be another version of Evos with square back yet to come. We saw some mules like that earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Well it could be true, Evos would be China market only, SAME vehicle will carry the Fusion name here, and the Mondeo name in Europe? Maybe...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 12 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Here is the Zephyr Reflection aka MKZ for the Chinese market Looks much better to me. Seems to be a more coherent design. The evos c pillar just doesn’t work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 12 hours ago, bzcat said: Farley said Fusion name will come back so Maverick wasn't what he was talking about. But quite possibly there will be another version of Evos with square back yet to come. We saw some mules like that earlier. Yeah it seems like the whole midsized market in NA is up in the air right now...the Edge is a dead man walking that will eventually be a BEV I'm assuming and this possible wagon/Subaru fighter thing they mentioned a few years back has seem to fallen off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Yeah it seems like the whole midsized market in NA is up in the air right now...the Edge is a dead man walking that will eventually be a BEV I'm assuming and this possible wagon/Subaru fighter thing they mentioned a few years back has seem to fallen off the table. I think they've changed plans several times in that area. There is good volume in midsized sedans and crossovers but not as much profit margin due to intense competition. Midsized crossovers are the sweet spot for BEVs in my opinion. More popular than sedans. Big enough to house the battery packs for 300+ mile range but smaller and cheaper than the larger crossovers and full sized SUVs. If you have to drop something to make way for more BEVs it seems to be a logical choice even though I would prefer to see Edge and Nautilus continue here as HEV/PHEVs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, akirby said: I think they've changed plans several times in that area. There is good volume in midsized sedans and crossovers but not as much profit margin due to intense competition. Midsized crossovers are the sweet spot for BEVs in my opinion. More popular than sedans. Big enough to house the battery packs for 300+ mile range but smaller and cheaper than the larger crossovers and full sized SUVs. If you have to drop something to make way for more BEVs it seems to be a logical choice even though I would prefer to see Edge and Nautilus continue here as HEV/PHEVs. Makes sense - the problem is can they sell in volumes large enough to be profitable? They will be substantially more expensive than ICE counterparts - witness Mach E - and even if they were priced similarly, many are not ready to buy an electric vehicle and likely won’t be for a number of years. Meanwhile the competition eats For’s lunch selling hunters of thousands of updated mid-sized SUV’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: Makes sense - the problem is can they sell in volumes large enough to be profitable? They will be substantially more expensive than ICE counterparts - witness Mach E - and even if they were priced similarly, many are not ready to buy an electric vehicle and likely won’t be for a number of years. Meanwhile the competition eats For’s lunch selling hunters of thousands of updated mid-sized SUV’s. Its a problem and its not... The CD6 is in a bad spot, it makes no sense to sink lots of money into an outdated product that needs to be replaced 2-3 years to be replaced again in 5 years by a completely new product that is on a BEV architecture. Over next 5 years your going to see ICE based development being phased out because of all the different mandates in the 2030-2035 timeframe (keep in mind the industry doesn't turn on a dime-it takes 18-24 months for a MCE to be done just as an example, they can't flip a switch and start making BEVs) The shrinking Edge volume will be picked up by other products (Bronco and Bronco Sport) or people might upgrade/downsize into an Explorer/Escape or maybe even the Fusion replacement. The next gen Edge will be a BEV and can capture early adapters and will be in a good spot for future development because it will have moved to a BEV architecture and won't be saddled with legacy architecture. Ford is still dealing with merging its Ford EU and Ford NA platforms from 8 years ago still. The market has changed dramatically since then with CUV becoming more popular. I believe Ford will be in much better shape in the next 4-5 years with platforms being unified across the board and they plan on having the youngest product lineup til 2026 with all the updated and new products that are coming out between now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: Makes sense - the problem is can they sell in volumes large enough to be profitable? They will be substantially more expensive than ICE counterparts - witness Mach E - and even if they were priced similarly, many are not ready to buy an electric vehicle and likely won’t be for a number of years. Meanwhile the competition eats For’s lunch selling hunters of thousands of updated mid-sized SUV’s. They still have current Edge and Nautilus for a couple more years. Batteries get cheaper every year. Ford might be making more profit on 50K Mach-Es than 200K Edges. Hard to say. I don't think anybody will be eating anybody's lunch. It's a gamble either way and it will be a few years before the winner is clear. Ideally they would be able to keep both the ICE HEV/PHEVs and BEVs at the same time. But it seems like Ford doesn't have the resources and doesn't want to expand factory or engineering resources to do it. We've heard that they'll import Nautilus from China but nothing about Edge yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 23 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The Evos is Chinese market only....hmmm I like the look, actually. I hope this is just an "Evos" won't be outside of China, and that we'll get a version of this with a US-oriented dash. I think it would do well here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.I. Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 9 hours ago, rmc523 said: I like the look, actually. I hope this is just an "Evos" won't be outside of China, and that we'll get a version of this with a US-oriented dash. I think it would do well here. I think that we won’t see new vehicles from Ford beyond the Bronco family, Mach E, F series EV until the middle of the decade when a pair of midsize crossovers EVs will arrive (one Ford and One Lincoln) . The Ford line up in USA will be very irregular: no sedans, no midsize crossover/SUV, no coupe crossover (all automakers have at least one), no minivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, falconlover 1 said: I think that we won’t see new vehicles from Ford beyond the Bronco family, Mach E, F series EV until the middle of the decade when a pair of midsize crossovers EVs will arrive (one Ford and One Lincoln) . The Ford line up in USA will be very irregular: no sedans, no midsize crossover/SUV, no coupe crossover (all automakers have at least one), no minivan. Technically we are only 2-3 years out from mid decade...we will see the 2022 MY in 5 months or so. The Edge will be around til 2024/25 MY Flat Rock would be a perfect place for an Evos offshoot to get built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:52 AM, silvrsvt said: Yeah it seems like the whole midsized market in NA is up in the air right now...the Edge is a dead man walking that will eventually be a BEV I'm assuming and this possible wagon/Subaru fighter thing they mentioned a few years back has seem to fallen off the table. I think the Fusion Active or whatever they are calling it will take the place of the Edge and Fusion sedan. The D segment is much too large for Ford to abandon and/or try to plug with EVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Footballfan said: I think the Fusion Active or whatever they are calling it will take the place of the Edge and Fusion sedan. The D segment is much too large for Ford to abandon and/or try to plug with EVs. I'm thinking it would, but Ford has been rather tightlipped about what they are doing in the short term...Christ the Maverick hasn't even been officially unveiled yet and it should be on sale by the end of the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 It’s looking more and more like Ford has abandoned any sort of a Fusion replacement and will soldier on with the Edge the next few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 The MY2022 Edge gets another facelift, at least that was the plan. It’s not a major MCA but similar in vein to the facelifts that the 2018 Explorer got for its final 2 years before being redesigned and what the 2019 Fusion got for its final 2 years before being sunset. Expect a modified grille and front bumper fascia as well as rear bumper. Some new wheels, but no major sheet metal changes. I don’t think much changes inside either. As for long term, the US Edge program was shelved. The China Edge program is still moving forward and the Nautilus is also still moving forward. As I’ve said the MY2023 Nautilus will be all-new and imported from China to the US. I honestly don’t know what the Edge program will become if anything at all. The Edge nameplate might live on here on another product like the 2 BEVs or it might not. I’ve also heard the Ford BEV might carry the Explorer name to expand the Explorer family into another subbrand. It seems like anything the Explorer and above is safe and moving forward with scheduled MCA’s and full redesigns. But EcoSport, Escape and Edge have hazy futures. Bronco and Bronco Sport are of course the new focus and have a lot of future investment coming their way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: The MY2022 Edge gets another facelift, at least that was the plan. It’s not a major MCA but similar in vein to the facelifts that the 2018 Explorer got for its final 2 years before being redesigned and what the 2019 Fusion got for its final 2 years before being sunset. Expect a modified grille and front bumper fascia as well as rear bumper. Some new wheels, but no major sheet metal changes. I don’t think much changes inside either. Why would they get a new interior/dash for MY2021 and then a new look this year? The Nautilus got a new facia and interior this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Why would they get a new interior/dash for MY2021 and then a new look this year? The Nautilus got a new facia and interior this year. Edge rear bumper was also changed for 2021, no more integrated exhaust, revised Edge badge across the tailgate. Looks very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Why would they get a new interior/dash for MY2021 and then a new look this year? The Nautilus got a new facia and interior this year. Why do Ford do any number of things they do? This poster is an insider who has demonstrated inside knowledge on several occasions - best to be glad he shares what he can so we get better looks at what is being planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Why would they get a new interior/dash for MY2021 and then a new look this year? The Nautilus got a new facia and interior this year. I can explain that, Edge is getting the just superseded dash from the Chinese Edge/Equator while it gets a new dash to keep customers there happy. This kind of grandfathering works on a dead end product but it’s sad that the Edge can’t be upgraded and saved as a hatchback version of the Chinese Equator. Edited April 21, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Presumably, Ford still wants to maintain Edge sales in China instead of throwing in the towels like they have in North America. So I can see another facelift for Edge... 2 year model cycle is normal in China. If you don't facelift a vehicle after 2.5 years, it is considered outdated by Chinese buyers. The market moves that fast there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 6 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: The MY2022 Edge gets another facelift, at least that was the plan. It’s not a major MCA but similar in vein to the facelifts that the 2018 Explorer got for its final 2 years before being redesigned and what the 2019 Fusion got for its final 2 years before being sunset. Expect a modified grille and front bumper fascia as well as rear bumper. Some new wheels, but no major sheet metal changes. I don’t think much changes inside either. As for long term, the US Edge program was shelved. The China Edge program is still moving forward and the Nautilus is also still moving forward. As I’ve said the MY2023 Nautilus will be all-new and imported from China to the US. I honestly don’t know what the Edge program will become if anything at all. The Edge nameplate might live on here on another product like the 2 BEVs or it might not. I’ve also heard the Ford BEV might carry the Explorer name to expand the Explorer family into another subbrand. It seems like anything the Explorer and above is safe and moving forward with scheduled MCA’s and full redesigns. But EcoSport, Escape and Edge have hazy futures. Bronco and Bronco Sport are of course the new focus and have a lot of future investment coming their way. I just think it's incredibly dumb to throw Edge away. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 7 hours ago, rmc523 said: I just think it's incredibly dumb to throw Edge away. From a customer perspective, absolutely. Edge is one of the more popular vehicles. But we don’t know how it’s performing financially. Its a tricky time for mfrs. Do you invest in current ICE vehicles or accelerate BEVs or try to do both? If you invest more in current vehicles you run the risk of being behind on BEVs. If you invest in BEVs and they don’t take off as planned then you’re behind on ICE. I would love a PHEV C2 Nautilus but that may have to be an import. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, akirby said: Do you invest in current ICE vehicles or accelerate BEVs or try to do both? At this point, automakers are only going to invest the minimum necessary for current ICE vehicles (including hybrids and PHEV) to meet regulatory requirements and complete their product cycles. Any capital deployed to new vehicle projects and associated services will be based on the global automotive industry's future of 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, and shared mobility systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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