jasonj80 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, akirby said: I would love a PHEV C2 Nautilus but that may have to be an import. From my understanding the reason a hybrid/PHEV Edge/Nautilus never happened was the mileage could never hit acceptable numbers. Edge has always been fat, and tossing in 250-1000lbs of batteries made it even worse. With a V6 Hybrid it was thirsty and the I4 Hybrid had drivability issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 40 minutes ago, rperez817 said: At this point, automakers are only going to invest the minimum necessary for current ICE vehicles (including hybrids and PHEV) to meet regulatory requirements and complete their product cycles. Any capital deployed to new vehicle projects and associated services will be based on the global automotive industry's future of 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, and shared mobility systems. That’s absolutely not true. You probably won’t see new platforms or new IC powertrains but trucks and utilities and vans will continue to be a viable ICE market for many years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 37 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: From my understanding the reason a hybrid/PHEV Edge/Nautilus never happened was the mileage could never hit acceptable numbers. Edge has always been fat, and tossing in 250-1000lbs of batteries made it even worse. With a V6 Hybrid it was thirsty and the I4 Hybrid had drivability issues. That makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: At this point, automakers are only going to invest the minimum necessary for current ICE vehicles (including hybrids and PHEV) to meet regulatory requirements and complete their product cycles. Any capital deployed to new vehicle projects and associated services will be based on the global automotive industry's future of 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, and shared mobility systems. 100 percent Evs will not happen in our lifetimes and 100 autonomous will be several lifetimes longer than that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Footballfan said: 100 percent Evs will not happen in our lifetimes and 100 autonomous will be several lifetimes longer than that. We already have 100% EVs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 16 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: As for long term, the US Edge program was shelved. The China Edge program is still moving forward and the Nautilus is also still moving forward. As I’ve said the MY2023 Nautilus will be all-new and imported from China to the US. I feel that I speak on the behalf of many: No communist China built crap for me- especially when Lincoln is supposed to be an AMERICAN luxury brand. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Anthony said: We already have 100% EVs? ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, akirby said: That’s absolutely not true. You probably won’t see new platforms or new IC powertrains but trucks and utilities and vans will continue to be a viable ICE market for many years. Yep. Even GM has backed off on their "100% EV by 2030" pledge. They're now calling it a goal, not a promise. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, Anthony said: We already have 100% EVs? He means that we will not see 100 percent of all motor vehicles sold having an EV powertrain. There will be a need for ICE power for a while. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, jasonj80 said: From my understanding the reason a hybrid/PHEV Edge/Nautilus never happened was the mileage could never hit acceptable numbers. Edge has always been fat, and tossing in 250-1000lbs of batteries made it even worse. With a V6 Hybrid it was thirsty and the I4 Hybrid had drivability issues. So what was the justification for the Explorer, outside of it being an power adder? I guess shared powerplant was one reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: So what was the justification for the Explorer, outside of it being an power adder? I guess shared powerplant was one reason. Just a guess, but I think it was mainly for the Police Interceptor. I don’t know if they’ve sold more than a handful of Explorer hybrids. Have never seen one on a lot and fuel economy is about the same as the 2.3 Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: So what was the justification for the Explorer, outside of it being an power adder? I guess shared powerplant was one reason. The next gen Edge that was going launch for 2021 was CD6 and would have gained the PHEV/Hybrid option from the Explorer. As we know that never happened so Edge will just transition to fully electric in the NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 59 minutes ago, atomcat68 said: He means that we will not see 100 percent of all motor vehicles sold having an EV powertrain. There will be a need for ICE power for a while. Don't look now, but lithium prices are climbing at an alarming rate. BEVs are more expensive and climbing lithium prices will not help sell them in overwhelming numbers. For me, hybrids are the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Don't look now, but lithium prices are climbing at an alarming rate. BEVs are more expensive and climbing lithium prices will not help sell them in overwhelming numbers. For me, hybrids are the best of both worlds. There are other options instead of using Lithium or least investments are being made into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, atomcat68 said: He means that we will not see 100 percent of all motor vehicles sold having an EV powertrain. There will be a need for ICE power for a while. That's what I meant as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: You probably won’t see new platforms or new IC powertrains Yes sir, that is what's meant by the minimum investment necessary by automakers to complete the product cycles for current ICE powered vehicles over the next few years. The investments will be mainly tweaks here and there to ensure those ICE powered vehicles meet new regulations. Starting around 2030, bans on the sale of new ICE powered vehicles will go into effect worldwide. Edited April 22, 2021 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 51 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Starting around 2030, bans on the sale of new ICE powered vehicles will go into effect worldwide. Not going to happen anywhere that quick in rural areas of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Yes sir, that is what's meant by the minimum investment necessary by automakers to complete the product cycles for current ICE powered vehicles over the next few years. Ford will most definitely continue investment in both the current and new product cycles and new top hats for trucks, utilities and commercial vehicles at a minimum. The market isn't going away anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 6 hours ago, akirby said: From a customer perspective, absolutely. Edge is one of the more popular vehicles. But we don’t know how it’s performing financially. Its a tricky time for mfrs. Do you invest in current ICE vehicles or accelerate BEVs or try to do both? If you invest more in current vehicles you run the risk of being behind on BEVs. If you invest in BEVs and they don’t take off as planned then you’re behind on ICE. I would love a PHEV C2 Nautilus but that may have to be an import. I guess I'm just tired of all the news every other week that nameplate after nameplate is being thrown to the scrap heap because of profitability. First sedans, now midsize BEVs, now not getting Evos/Zephyr, etc. etc. I know the argument there are new products like Bronco/Bronco Sport, etc. But it seems like Ford changes plans way too often, and products get left to rot on the vine over and over again, and then Ford wonders why they don't sell well. I'm sure in a few years we'll look back and laugh when all the new stuff comes out, but lately just seems like it's been continually waiting for "x" to come out then things will be better! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I guess I'm just tired of all the news every other week that nameplate after nameplate is being thrown to the scrap heap because of profitability. First sedans, now midsize BEVs, now not getting Evos/Zephyr, etc. etc. I know the argument there are new products like Bronco/Bronco Sport, etc. But it seems like Ford changes plans way too often, and products get left to rot on the vine over and over again, and then Ford wonders why they don't sell well. I'm sure in a few years we'll look back and laugh when all the new stuff comes out, but lately just seems like it's been continually waiting for "x" to come out then things will be better! That's one of the biggest (and most fair) criticisms of Ford product planning the last couple of decades. Moving too slow and changing horses midstream wasting resources and time. Trying to keep overhead low, not opening new factories or refurbing FRAP, etc. has forced them to pick and choose. Seems like they could have kept C2 Fusion and Focus at FRAP and/or Louisville (if Escape volume stays lower) - maybe only selling HEV and PHEV versions which should bring higher margins. Ranger and Bronco should have been here 2-3 years ago. C2 Edge and Nautilus should have been done in 2018 instead of the CD4 refresh in 2015. Lots of examples of poor planning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On top of all of this, I don't think the Bronco is going to be the holy grail that Ford thinks it's going to be and that it needs to be a sub brand. Ford got along just ducky for the 20 or so years that there was no Bronco in the lineup. Yes, it will do great and make huge profits the next few years, but what happens when the fad dies out? The Bronco is not the Mustang. Remember at one time Ford was going to keep the Mustang name, but put it on the car that became the Probe? There were torches and pitchforks protesting Ford. When Ford announced the Bronco was being replaced by the Expedition in 1996, everyone shrugged their shoulders, yawned, or made an OJ joke. I think the Bronco will be a fad, and that Ford should do their most to make as much of a diversified lineup as they can afford to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, atomcat68 said: On top of all of this, I don't think the Bronco is going to be the holy grail that Ford thinks it's going to be and that it needs to be a sub brand. Ford got along just ducky for the 20 or so years that there was no Bronco in the lineup. Yes, it will do great and make huge profits the next few years, but what happens when the fad dies out? The Bronco is not the Mustang. Remember at one time Ford was going to keep the Mustang name, but put it on the car that became the Probe? There were torches and pitchforks protesting Ford. When Ford announced the Bronco was being replaced by the Expedition in 1996, everyone shrugged their shoulders, yawned, or made an OJ joke. I think the Bronco will be a fad, and that Ford should do their most to make as much of a diversified lineup as they can afford to make. I don't think the Bronco will be a fad. When I think fad I think PT Cruiser and whatever GM made to copy it, the last iteration of the Thunderbird, and Prowler. The Jeep has proved over the last 20 years that mid sized off roader is not a fad. Go look at the sales of the Wrangler over the past 20 years. Now, Ford let the Bronco take a different path than it probably should of. Honestly, I wonder if the Bronco 2 wasn't such a POS if Ford what would of Ford done with the smaller truck based off roader? In my opinion, we know there is a market for this and if Ford can come up with a better mouse trap and get some of those profits I have no problem with that. Now if gas spikes to 8 bucks a gallon (looking at you Prez) in order to decrease the use of gas then all bets are off for the Bronco unless they come out with a legit normal hybrid or PHEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: Now if gas spikes to 8 bucks a gallon (looking at you Prez) in order to decrease the use of gas then all bets are off for the Bronco unless they come out with a legit normal hybrid or PHEV. Ford is almost certainly working on a BEV version of Bronco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 54 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: I don't think the Bronco will be a fad. When I think fad I think PT Cruiser and whatever GM made to copy it, the last iteration of the Thunderbird, and Prowler. The Jeep has proved over the last 20 years that mid sized off roader is not a fad. Go look at the sales of the Wrangler over the past 20 years. Now, Ford let the Bronco take a different path than it probably should of. Honestly, I wonder if the Bronco 2 wasn't such a POS if Ford what would of Ford done with the smaller truck based off roader? In my opinion, we know there is a market for this and if Ford can come up with a better mouse trap and get some of those profits I have no problem with that. Now if gas spikes to 8 bucks a gallon (looking at you Prez) in order to decrease the use of gas then all bets are off for the Bronco unless they come out with a legit normal hybrid or PHEV. The thing is that Bronco II was a product of its time...and the mid to late 1980s times where changing...people wanted 4 door SUVs and the Bronco II morphed into the Explorer and the Bronco itself became the Expedition. The Bronco itself has been a victim of the same problems that the Ford lineup has been experiencing the past 20 years with it coming back. There wasn't a business case or gas prices spiked up and everyone thought they would go back to cars after that. Only when GM showed that a midsized truck could work in the US (outside of Toyota) and Ford needed extra product to keep MAP busy, the Bronco was born, not to mention the profitability of it being shared with the new Ranger. The Bring Back Bronco Podcast has lots of good info on this...on the death and reresection of the Bronco and all the fits it had. The Bronco Sport was morphed from the Gen X/Z CUV that was talked about 4-5 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, atomcat68 said: Yes, it will do great and make huge profits the next few years, but what happens when the fad dies out? When did the Wrangler fad die out? Why would Bronco be different? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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