Jump to content

Next gen Mustang to go full EV


Recommended Posts

On 1/19/2021 at 12:15 PM, Twin Turbo said:

Sorry, I didn't see this thread when I posted mine.

 

However, I don't know why Autoline keep referring to 2028 as the next gen Mustang when S650 is coming in 2022 as a '23MY!!!

 

I'd like to think there will still be a V8 option for the 8th gen (2028 or whenever)........but I guess the V8 has to die at some point :(

 

 

Wouldn't it be fitting to have V8s around for a Centennial Edition in 2032? 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Similar to the situation with EV, governments and automakers have to work together in order to deploy AV as quickly as possible. The automakers and supplier firms are doing their part from a technology standpoint, governments need to do theirs from a regulatory framework standpoint.

 

From the Self-Driving Coalition webpage (Ford is one of the members). https://www.selfdrivingcoalition.org/

 

 

 


That's nice and all but that doesn't mean the technology is remotely close to being ready for mass consumption

 

Do you really expect a government that can't even handle an economic stimulus Package to be able to successfully navigate rolling out autonomous vehicles? I sure as hell don't. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


That's nice and all but that doesn't mean the technology is remotely close to being ready for mass consumption

 

Do you really expect a government that can't even handle an economic stimulus Package to be able to successfully navigate rolling out autonomous vehicles? I sure as hell don't. 

 

Or even the costs of making roads smarter to let AVs drive on them...your talking billons of dollars. Most local governments barely can afford to keep potholes out of "dumb roads"

 

There is far too much cost involved to make it worthwhile. Its like smoking...it bad for your health, but taxes it generates are too much for the government to get rid of.  I'd much rather be able to drive my own damn car most of the time instead of giving that up....too many people (well people that can afford cars) aren't willing to completely give up all control over a vehicle. Its going to take a few generations to make that possible...and not to mention the current way laws are written are not compatible with what could happen with AVs.

You could bankrupt a manufacture with lawsuits that stem from AV accidents.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Or even the costs of making roads smarter to let AVs drive on them...your talking billons of dollars. Most local governments barely can afford to keep potholes out of "dumb roads"

 

There is far too much cost involved to make it worthwhile. Its like smoking...it bad for your health, but taxes it generates are too much for the government to get rid of.  I'd much rather be able to drive my own damn car most of the time instead of giving that up....too many people (well people that can afford cars) aren't willing to completely give up all control over a vehicle. Its going to take a few generations to make that possible...and not to mention the current way laws are written are not compatible with what could happen with AVs.

You could bankrupt a manufacture with lawsuits that stem from AV accidents.  


I think the government backed off on it because they realized they have no clue what they’re doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other issue with AVs that since people most likely wouldn't own their own car, you'd need most likely 3x the amount of cars to satisfy demand. 

 

I can just think of this-You have a family of four. You can get away with having two cars without much issue, but if you don't "own" a car, you'll run into issues just getting kids places they need to go. One logic issue is dealing with multiple trips in a single vehicle-You have a kid that needs to go to Dr and another that needs to be dropped off at some organized sports they do-first off is a parent going to trust a vehicle to take their kid some place, then trust those same kids to get out of the car to the place their going? I'm sure there are other things too.

 

AVs have their place-I can see them being used in theme parks for buses/transports from the parking lot, etc and needing to get around a fixed area, but beyond that is going to take years and years of research. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The other issue with AVs that since people most likely wouldn't own their own car, you'd need most likely 3x the amount of cars to satisfy demand. 

 

I can just think of this-You have a family of four. You can get away with having two cars without much issue, but if you don't "own" a car, you'll run into issues just getting kids places they need to go. One logic issue is dealing with multiple trips in a single vehicle-You have a kid that needs to go to Dr and another that needs to be dropped off at some organized sports they do-first off is a parent going to trust a vehicle to take their kid some place, then trust those same kids to get out of the car to the place their going? I'm sure there are other things too.

 

AVs have their place-I can see them being used in theme parks for buses/transports from the parking lot, etc and needing to get around a fixed area, but beyond that is going to take years and years of research. 

 

I think one of the supposed counterpoints is that vehicles spend most of their life sitting, so instead of your car being parked, an AV could be off shuttling someone else around instead of being parked in a parking lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No more ICE Mustangs by 2028??  Won't happen!!
 

 Next generation Mustang will be available in 2022 as 2023 MY.  It will have a run of at least 8 years.  V8 engine (6.2 liter) and Ecoboost engines will be offered.  Hybrid and AWD options will also be available.  We'll probably see an all electric Mustang coupe sold along side the ICE models at some point during the next generation. 

 

Battery technology is evolving and we won't know exactly where it will be by 2028.  But, by 2028,  will the U.S. have an electrical grid large enough to support an all of electric fleet?  Will we have  the infrastructure  that can generate enough electricity for our homes and charge our electric vehicles?   Finally, current costs for the Mach-e puts it out of reach for many consumers.  Price has always been selling point for Mustang - a performance car for an affordable price.  Will that still be the case?

Edited by llinthicum1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think one of the supposed counterpoints is that vehicles spend most of their life sitting, so instead of your car being parked, an AV could be off shuttling someone else around instead of being parked in a parking lot.

 

Yeah, but realistically, how many people will really be willing to loan out their cars to strangers, even if the car is self driving. I won't.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

Yeah, but realistically, how many people will really be willing to loan out their cars to strangers, even if the car is self driving. I won't.

The idea was you wouldn’t own the car, just pay for a subscription that entitled you to use it....like a time share.  But, subscription services haven’t been the hit they were predicted to be.

 

With young kids in car seats and lots of toys to keep them entertained, who wants to take the chance on getting a car to pick them up with the right configuration of car seats and then carry all their stuff with them?  Private ownership is very attractive.  You can personalize the vehicle any way you want and it is always available for you.  No need to plan ahead, wait for it to show up, leave nothing behind in it....oh and actually get to drive it.  We are talking about Mustangs after all.  Make mine a coyote with a 6 speed manual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think one of the supposed counterpoints is that vehicles spend most of their life sitting, so instead of your car being parked, an AV could be off shuttling someone else around instead of being parked in a parking lot.

I work in security, so I have some experience with patrol vehicles. Hot swapping is incredibly difficult on the cars. They can end up running nearly 24/7.  I don't know if it's cheaper or more expensiveto share vehicles, but I don't think you save as much as you'd think when you try to share them between officers . I think you'd have the same problem with shared AVs.

 

In addition to the motor and the AC constantly running, you end up with broken and worn out interiors pretty quickly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, llinthicum1 said:

Price has always been selling point for Mustang - a performance car for an affordable price.  Will that still be the case?

 

Yes sir llinthicum1. Mustang Mach-E pricing is reasonable, even though its starting price is higher than Mustang coupe. If Ford goes all-in with BEV as soon as possible, it should be able to achieve economies of scale allowing for a wider range of prices for an all electric Mustang family, from entry level to supercar. 

Edited by rperez817
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, AGR said:

 

Yeah, but realistically, how many people will really be willing to loan out their cars to strangers, even if the car is self driving. I won't.

 

12 hours ago, probowler said:

I work in security, so I have some experience with patrol vehicles. Hot swapping is incredibly difficult on the cars. They can end up running nearly 24/7.  I don't know if it's cheaper or more expensiveto share vehicles, but I don't think you save as much as you'd think when you try to share them between officers . I think you'd have the same problem with shared AVs.

 

In addition to the motor and the AC constantly running, you end up with broken and worn out interiors pretty quickly.

 

 

Oh, I don't like the idea and wouldn't do it, was just pointing out that's what advocates of AVs think.

 

I agree with most here that it'll be a LONG time before we see AVs in any widespread application beyond campus shuttles or things like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

Oh, I don't like the idea and wouldn't do it, was just pointing out that's what advocates of AVs think.

 

I agree with most here that it'll be a LONG time before we see AVs in any widespread application beyond campus shuttles or things like that.

 

I think we'll see AVs sooner than that, but they won't be used like Silicon Valley thinks/fantasizes. They'll be bought like regular cars and used like them. AVs will make longer commutes more tolerable, so there will be more sprawl. Crowded shopping/restaurant districts will get more crowded because people will go and let the car do the parking. And we'll get fatter and lazier because of the same.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see the ICE Mustang going the way the Falcon did in Australia, it continued evolving and using technology 

from other vehicles to keep it fresh to the mostly performance oriented devotees. So I see a situation where 

Ford does an economical makeover that sets the ICE Mustang up for a run to the finish with every year having

something special for those buyers.

 

Meantime, the BEV version arrives and reminds everyone that's there's life beyond gasoline burning engines.

If legislators are smart, they'll realise that most of the public will progressively switch to BEVs making CAFE

 and vehicle emission regulations a nonsense for the remaining rusted on ICE sales in 10 to 15 years time.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

I see the ICE Mustang going the way the Falcon did in Australia, it continued evolving and using technology 

from other vehicles to keep it fresh to the mostly performance oriented devotees. So I see a situation where 

Ford does an economical makeover that sets the ICE Mustang up for a run to the finish with every year having

something special for those buyers.

 

Meantime, the BEV version arrives and reminds everyone that's there's life beyond gasoline burning engines.

If legislators are smart, they'll realise that most of the public will progressively switch to BEVs making CAFE

 and vehicle emission regulations a nonsense for the remaining rusted on ICE sales in 10 to 15 years time.

 

 

Oh, they'll find some way to regulate BEVs because they can't not do it.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Oh, they'll find some way to regulate BEVs because they can't not do it.

The only way they can is by rating electricity by its source, be that CO2 based or non CO2 green energy sources.

I think that's the case now and why BEVs are rated in mpg, to apply some amount of emission to electric vehicles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Oh, they'll find some way to regulate BEVs because they can't not do it.

One important point forgotten is that the gas tax pays for our roads. And Congress can't pass anything, especially an electricity tax or even an increased gas tax to compensate for loss BEV revenue. So IMO ICE is not going anywhere, and it will take $5 gas to even get most drivers to consider BEV let alone hybrid or plugin hybrid. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

One important point forgotten is that the gas tax pays for our roads. And Congress can't pass anything, especially an electricity tax or even an increased gas tax to compensate for loss BEV revenue. 

 

Some states currently have, or have proposed, registration fee surcharges for owners of BEV and hybrid vehicles. In Texas, there's a proposal to charge BEV owners an extra $200 a year and hybrid vehicle owners an extra $100. It hasn't yet been passed into law, though.

 

A better approach to raise money for roads in Texas would be to increase the Texas state excise tax on gasoline and diesel fuel, which is currently set at a ridiculously low rate of only $0.20/gallon. This action can be combined with a smaller registration surcharge for BEV so that consumers aren't discouraged from buying them. Once BEV becomes dominant, registration surcharges for them can be increased.

 

Additionally, new highway construction can focus on toll roads now that electronic tolling (no stopping for tollbooths) is common. Some new highways in the DFW Metroplex such as Chisholm Trail Parkway use 100% electronic tolling.

Edited by rperez817
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some wonks have also proposed a tax per mile driven (I believe this idea originated in one of the Pacific Northwest states). The government would use the same tech that insurance companies use to track the use of a vehicle - older cars would use an OBD-II dongle, newer ones could obviously transmit their usage with simple programming installed. The obvious difference here is that the insurance use is voluntary, whereas there would be nothing voluntary about the government tracking vehicles for the purpose of taxation.

 

No comment on the Big Brother aspect of this. Just saying the idea is out there, and some politicians will promote the idea to get their revenue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The struggle for road tax money is real.  I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but this is one area that has been declining for years due to better fuel economy for cars, and something needs to be done.  My wife works for the transportation department and there's constantly issues with funding and finding ways to pay for road projects.  Bridges here in MO are horrible, but there's just no way to pay for fixing them.  Gas taxes don't pass because people just don't get it.  It's only going to get worse as fuel economy increases and more BEVs make it into the wild.  I don't have a solution, but the end result is going to be painful as it's going to be an all-in-one payment ($xx at registration time) instead of $3-4 at every fill-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

My wife works for the transportation department and there's constantly issues with funding and finding ways to pay for road projects.  Bridges here in MO are horrible, but there's just no way to pay for fixing them.  Gas taxes don't pass because people just don't get it. 

 

Missouri has the same problem as Texas. State level gasoline and diesel fuel taxes are set way too low, actually the lowest rate for gasoline in the Lower 48 at only $0.17

Gas-Tax-July-2020-FV-01.png

 

The good news is that the majority of states have been successful increasing state level gasoline and/or diesel fuel taxes in the past 10 years, and at least 22 states use variable rates for those taxes to ensure they rise over time. https://itep.org/most-states-have-raised-gas-taxes-in-recent-years-0419/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

The struggle for road tax money is real.  I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but this is one area that has been declining for years due to better fuel economy for cars, and something needs to be done.  My wife works for the transportation department and there's constantly issues with funding and finding ways to pay for road projects.  Bridges here in MO are horrible, but there's just no way to pay for fixing them.  Gas taxes don't pass because people just don't get it.  It's only going to get worse as fuel economy increases and more BEVs make it into the wild.  I don't have a solution, but the end result is going to be painful as it's going to be an all-in-one payment ($xx at registration time) instead of $3-4 at every fill-up.

I moved permanently from MI in 2017, and I believe in 2016 MI significantly raised gas and usage taxes including registration and license tab fees to fix roads and crumbling bridges. Within two years a new state administration wanted a huge, new gas tax that didn't fly. The big problem in my mind is U.S. Congress has not increased the federal gas tax in decades. So it falls on states to make up the difference as federal help goes down every year and interstates and interstate highways continue to deteriorate.

 

In FL, they have been rebuilding I-4 for many years with no end in sight and over $1 billion spent. Now they want to run Brightline trains down the median from Orlando to Tampa. Authorities also want to expand the FL Turnpike where it costs $20 to travel 60 miles. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

Some wonks have also proposed a tax per mile driven (I believe this idea originated in one of the Pacific Northwest states).

 

Yes sir Harley Lover, Oregon introduced this concept in 2015. It is currently voluntary, motorists in Oregon can sign up using this link. https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Programs/Pages/OReGO.aspx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

Some wonks have also proposed a tax per mile driven (I believe this idea originated in one of the Pacific Northwest states). The government would use the same tech that insurance companies use to track the use of a vehicle - older cars would use an OBD-II dongle, newer ones could obviously transmit their usage with simple programming installed. The obvious difference here is that the insurance use is voluntary, whereas there would be nothing voluntary about the government tracking vehicles for the purpose of taxation.

 

No comment on the Big Brother aspect of this. Just saying the idea is out there, and some politicians will promote the idea to get their revenue.


The idea of taxing miles driven is a good one because that’s putting the cost on the cost causers.  However, it doesn’t need electronic nannies.  Just collect it once a year at registration renewal.  Or just make it a flat rate per vehicle.  $200-$300 per vehicle per year would probably cover it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...