rperez817 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 https://news.microsoft.com/2021/01/19/cruise-and-gm-team-up-with-microsoft-to-commercialize-self-driving-vehicles/ SAN FRANCISCO, DETROIT and REDMOND, Wash. – Jan. 19, 2021 – Cruise and General Motors on Tuesday announced they have entered a long-term strategic relationship with Microsoft to accelerate the commercialization of self-driving vehicles. The companies will bring together their software and hardware engineering excellence, cloud computing capabilities, manufacturing know-how and partner ecosystem to transform transportation to create a safer, cleaner, and more accessible world for everyone. “Our mission to bring safer, better, and more affordable transportation to everyone isn’t just a tech race – it’s also a trust race,” said Cruise CEO Dan Ammann. “Microsoft, as the gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology, will be a force multiplier for us as we commercialize our fleet of self-driving, all-electric, shared vehicles.” To unlock the potential of cloud computing for self-driving vehicles, Cruise will leverage Azure, Microsoft’s cloud and edge computing platform, to commercialize its unique autonomous vehicle solutions at scale. Microsoft, as Cruise’s preferred cloud provider, will also tap into Cruise’s deep industry expertise to enhance its customer-driven product innovation and serve transportation companies across the globe through continued investment in Azure. Microsoft will join General Motors, Honda and institutional investors in a combined new equity investment of more than $2 billion in Cruise, bringing the post-money valuation of Cruise to $30 billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Stang Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Just a thought, with GM doing so well now, you would think they might send some money to the Treasury for all of the money they lost 9n GM's bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Soon... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 3:53 PM, 70 Stang said: Just a thought, with GM doing so well now, you would think they might send some money to the Treasury for all of the money they lost 9n GM's bankruptcy. Treasury didn't loose anything, only stock and bond holders did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: Treasury didn't loose anything, only stock and bond holders did. Not quite true. If the allegation was phrased, "GM paid back all its debt to the U.S. Government," then that would be true. GM did repay all of the loans -- early in fact -- from the bailout. The problem is that as a part of the bailout the Treasury also bought a boat load of new GM stock, knowing that it was paying a much higher price than the stock was worth. When it came time for the Treasury to sell off that stock they ended up losing over $10 billion (I seem to remember the final number of the loss was somewhere between $11 billion and $12 billion). So yeah, that's a great deal as far as GM was concerned. Not so much for the U.S. taxpayer. Here's a link: https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/15/why-gm-still-owes-taxpayers.aspx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 6:53 PM, 70 Stang said: Just a thought, with GM doing so well now, you would think they might send some money to the Treasury for all of the money they lost 9n GM's bankruptcy. As mentioned in the Motley Fool article that Gurgeh shared, GM lived up to its terms for the 2009 bankruptcy. GM does not owe the Treasury anything else from that transaction. What GM should do currently is continue investing in things to ensure its future success, focusing on electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, and mobility services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, rperez817 said: As mentioned in the Motley Fool article that Gurgeh shared, GM lived up to its terms for the 2009 bankruptcy. GM does not owe the Treasury anything else from that transaction. What GM should do currently is continue investing in things to ensure its future success, focusing on electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, and mobility services. They don’t legally owe anything but if you think it’s ok that the govt lost billions while GM made billions you’re delusional again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, akirby said: They don’t legally owe anything but if you think it’s ok that the govt lost billions while GM made billions you’re delusional again. You're the one that's delusional if you expect the U.S. federal government not to lose money on just about anything it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, rperez817 said: You're the one that's delusional if you expect the U.S. federal government not to lose money on just about anything it does. GM did indeed pay off one of the loans it got from the government, but overall, the U.S. taxpayers lost 11.2 billion dollars on the bail-out. It all came down to stock price. The stock price had to rise to a certain level (I forgot what it was) for the taxpayers to break-even, or make money. But the Feds wanted out of the GM deal so sold the stock early, below the break-even price, resulting in the 11.2 billion dollar loss. https://time.com/82953/general-motors-bailout-cost-taxpayers-11-2-billion/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Stang Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: You're the one that's delusional if you expect the U.S. federal government not to lose money on just about anything it does. And another $1.5 Billion subsidizing every manufacturer that builds 200,000 qualifying EV vehicles. You do realize where this money comes from right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Whatever the Treasury may have lost selling the GM stock they ended up with, the Federal government along with state and local government will collect much more through corporate income taxes, employee income taxes, employment taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on GM products, related taxes paid by GM vendors, ect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: Whatever the Treasury may have lost selling the GM stock they ended up with, the Federal government along with state and local government will collect much more through corporate income taxes, employee income taxes, employment taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on GM products, related taxes paid by GM vendors, ect.. Nobody is saying they were wrong to bail them out. We’re saying it’s not fair for the taxpayers to lose billions when GM was making billions in profit. It should have been a loan and they should have paid it back. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Well they also were allowed to carry 50 billion in losses to the new company so they really didn’t pay any taxes for about 10 years after bankruptcy with the carry forward (that was unheard of) They also F***** the retirees every way they could and then some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: Well they also were allowed to carry 50 billion in losses to the new company so they really didn’t pay any taxes for about 10 years after bankruptcy with the carry forward (that was unheard of) They also F***** the retirees every way they could and then some. I forgot about that. New GM gets to shed liability for old GM but gets to keep the old GM losses to offset profits of new GM. How can anyone possibly think that’s fair? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 54 minutes ago, akirby said: I forgot about that. New GM gets to shed liability for old GM but gets to keep the old GM losses to offset profits of new GM. How can anyone possibly think that’s fair? Perfectly fair. U.S. tax law has had provisions for NOL carryforward for more than a century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, rperez817 said: What GM should do currently is continue investing in things to ensure its future success, focusing on electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, and mobility services. Morgan Stanley automotive industry analyst Adam Jonas said yesterday "GM may be engineering one of the best turnarounds in business history". https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/21/gm-may-be-engineering-one-of-the-best-turnarounds-in-business-history-morgan-stanleys-jonas-says.html Edited January 22, 2021 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: Perfectly fair. U.S. tax law has had provisions for NOL carryforward for more than a century. Fair and legal are completely different things. New GM was the same company as old GM making the same vehicles. Its not fair to old GM stockholders. They should have at least been given new GM stock. If you want to carry previous years losses as a tax write off then you should have to carry the old GM liabilities. They should have repaid the taxpayers for the govt stock loss. Its like your neighbor owes you $100 and won’t pay you back but goes out and buys a new car and a new boat. Your GM cheerleading is reaching troll status. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Morgan Stanley automotive industry analyst Adam Jonas said yesterday "GM may be engineering one of the best turnarounds in business history". https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/21/gm-may-be-engineering-one-of-the-best-turnarounds-in-business-history-morgan-stanleys-jonas-says.html This would be a lot more impressive if they didn't need a government bailout to make this all happen... Fords survival is far more impressive. They are the last American automaker standing in my book. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 8 hours ago, akirby said: I forgot about that. New GM gets to shed liability for old GM but gets to keep the old GM losses to offset profits of new GM. How can anyone possibly think that’s fair? ...AND get a huge $10-12 billion grant from the federal government in the form of the sale of massively overvalued stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 7 hours ago, akirby said: Fair and legal are completely different things. Yes sir. GM's and the U.S. Treasury's dealings regarding GM's bankruptcy were both fair and legal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 hours ago, probowler said: Fords survival is far more impressive. Yes sir, I agree. Ford was circling the drain just 5 years ago. Now thanks to Jim Hackett's fitness plan in place, with Jim Farley applying it, Ford has the potential to not just survive but thrive in an automotive industry defined by 100% electric vehicles, 100% autonomous vehicles, and mobility services. Of course, Ford still has lots of problems to fix. But if Farley pulls it off, and I'm confident he will, Barron's said Ford stock price could double. It would be nice if Ford like GM partners with Microsoft or another American computer company for its autonomous vehicle software. The 2020s decade marks a renaissance for U.S. automotive and computer/data processing industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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