Sales Results January '21

[twintornados]

I find it interesting that the "production numbers by plant" page refers to E-Series as Econoline....

[akirby]

59 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Those models were mass market products, "premium" only in the sense they had higher MSRP than comparably equipped competitors. This was due in part to Ford's "price high and offer big rebates" marketing strategy, and in part to higher operational costs due to process inefficiencies at Ford. That's why they struggled to make a profit.

 

Hopefully Jim Farley can help implement better operational processes all around at Ford to improve its cost structure, and also encourage Ford's marketers to price its vehicles in a more reasonable manner that avoids the need for huge rebates.

They were engineered with more expensive parts because they expected a lot more titanium sales and less cheap SEs.  At one point Fusion ATPs were $4K higher than Camry but then the market and competition changed.  I guarantee the new Escape costs a lot less than the old escape on the lower trim levels.  They’re not stupid.  It’s the same reason they have $4k-$6k rebates on F150 XL and XLTs and almost none on higher trims.

[rperez817]

40 minutes ago, akirby said:

I guarantee the new Escape costs a lot less than the old escape on the lower trim levels.

 

When pricing is adjusted for inflation and standard equipment, yes sir that is correct. Ford has made some progress making MSRP on its vehicles more reasonable, but pricing is still higher than many competitors. Hence the huge rebates on 2020 Escape.

 

• 2013 Ford Escape SE MSRP (including destination charge): $25,965 ($28,846 in 2020 dollars)
• 2020 Ford Escape SE MSRP (including destination charge): $27,855

The 2020 model includes safety features like AEB with Pedestrian Detection that weren't even available on the 2013 model.

 

[slemke]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

When pricing is adjusted for inflation and standard equipment, yes sir that is correct. Ford has made some progress making MSRP on its vehicles more reasonable, but pricing is still higher than many competitors. Hence the huge rebates on 2020 Escape.

 

• 2013 Ford Escape SE MSRP (including destination charge): $25,965 ($28,846 in 2020 dollars)
• 2020 Ford Escape SE MSRP (including destination charge): $27,855

The 2020 model includes safety features like AEB with Pedestrian Detection that weren't even available on the 2013 model.

 

I think he was referring to what it cost Ford to build, not the price consumers paid.  Sure they targeted a lower price point, but they also reduced the manufacturing cost to make it profitable at the prices consumers were willing to pay.  There is the Lincoln Corsair for those that want a much nicer vehicle.  Explorer and Aviator are similar.  If you are shopping the higher trim escape, edge, explorer, or expedition you might as well look at Lincoln.  I think they are better values now than the top trim Fords.

 

 

[FR739]

3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Pretty simple answer......Escape offers a very good hybrid and soon a plugin hybrid. After 20 months, we are still averaging about 50mpg...twice what the BS gets.

What does the BS Hybrid get for fuel economy?

[rmc523]

12 minutes ago, FR739 said:

What does the BS Hybrid get for fuel economy?

 

There isn't one.

[rperez817]

23 minutes ago, slemke said:

I think he was referring to what it cost Ford to build, not the price consumers paid.  Sure they targeted a lower price point, but they also reduced the manufacturing cost 

 

Yes sir slemke, manufacturing costs (adjusted for inflation) for Ford vehicles in general should be lower now than in 2013 due to process improvements. Still, there are lots of opportunities for even more efficiency enhancement and cost reduction at Ford.

Edited February 5, 2021 by rperez817

[akirby]

22 minutes ago, slemke said:

I think he was referring to what it cost Ford to build, not the price consumers paid.  Sure they targeted a lower price point, but they also reduced the manufacturing cost to make it profitable at the prices consumers were willing to pay.  

 

THIS. ^^^^^^^^^

[akirby]

1 minute ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir slemke, manufacturing costs (adjusted for inflation) for Ford vehicles in general should be lower now than in 2013 due to process improvements. Still, there are lots of opportunities for even more efficiency and cost reduction at Ford.

Now you’re just trolling.

Edited February 5, 2021 by akirby

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, FR739 said:

What does the BS Hybrid get for fuel economy?

 Don't know, it doesn't exist. 

[atomcat68]

12 hours ago, twintornados said:

I find it interesting that the "production numbers by plant" page refers to E-Series as Econoline....

I was always under the impression that the E stood for Econoline.

[rperez817]

Back to the Ford press release for January 2021 U.S. sales numbers.

• Retail sales up 5.5% 
• Fleet sales down 15.7%

That combination is the ideal situation. Sales declines overall at Ford are a great thing if the decline is entirely on the fleet side as it was in January 2021.

Edited February 7, 2021 by rperez817
Correction: January 2021, not January 2020

[akirby]

28 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Back to the Ford press release for January 2020 U.S. sales numbers.

• Retail sales up 5.5% 
• Fleet sales down 15.7%

That combination is the ideal situation. Sales declines overall at Ford are a great thing if the decline is entirely on the fleet side as it was in January 2020.

Not if those were F150 fleet sales.

[FR739]

10 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

There isn't one.

 

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 Don't know, it doesn't exist. 

Exactly.  

[FR739]

10 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Still, there are lots of opportunities for even more efficiency enhancement and cost reduction at Ford.

Absolutely.  Farley has said as much.  Warranty costs are a huge part of that and are a direct result of the manufacturing process (whether is a supplier or in a factory).  
 

But one has to wonder, is the increase in Ford’s warranty costs due to too much cost savings in the factories and finding cheaper shortcuts to build?  Maybe start doing things in factories that  increase the overall cost but then they will see a decrease in warranty costs.  It’s an interesting puzzle. 

[silvrsvt]

Not to mention I wonder due to the BS shape if the fuel savings of a Hybrid wouldn't be "worth" it, esp at highway speeds.

[akirby]

31 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Absolutely.  Farley has said as much.  Warranty costs are a huge part of that and are a direct result of the manufacturing process (whether is a supplier or in a factory).  
 

But one has to wonder, is the increase in Ford’s warranty costs due to too much cost savings in the factories and finding cheaper shortcuts to build?  Maybe start doing things in factories that  increase the overall cost but then they will see a decrease in warranty costs.  It’s an interesting puzzle. 

 

On the factory side it appears to just be a CAP issue.   Most of the other big items seem to be lack of engineering expertise and not enough testing.   Squeezing suppliers probably plays a part too.

[akirby]

31 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Not to mention I wonder due to the BS shape if the fuel savings of a Hybrid wouldn't be "worth" it, esp at highway speeds.

 

It costs the BS 3 mpg highway over the AWD Escape.  Hard to say how much the hybrid would lose but I'd guess at least 5 mpg.   Not terrible but from a marketing perspective I think a hybrid BS should be a performance hybrid with the Corsair GT powertrain.

[ice-capades]

14 hours ago, twintornados said:

I find it interesting that the "production numbers by plant" page refers to E-Series as Econoline....

 

Doesn't make a difference really as E-Series and Econoline have always been the same. 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Not if those were F150 fleet sales.

 

There's ample demand for new 2021 F-150 by retail consumers. Ford is focused on getting current F-150 owners on the retail side to "upgrade" to the new version, which is definitely the right strategy.

 

The quality of sales matters more than quantity in this case. And that means any decline in fleet sales with 2021 F-150 compared to the previous model is a very good thing.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

But one has to wonder, is the increase in Ford’s warranty costs due to too much cost savings in the factories and finding cheaper shortcuts to build?  Maybe start doing things in factories that increase the overall cost but then they will see a decrease in warranty costs.  It’s an interesting puzzle. 

 

Good points FR739 sir. By optimizing vehicle design and manufacturing processes, Ford should be able to achieve both lower operational costs as well as improved product quality (resulting in fewer warranty claims). You are correct that it's a puzzle, and an engineering challenge. Ford has made progress with this, but there is still much work to do.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

But one has to wonder, is the increase in Ford’s warranty costs due to too much cost savings in the factories and finding cheaper shortcuts to build?

No. Full stop. Absolutely not. 

[bzcat]

3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Back to the Ford press release for January 2020 U.S. sales numbers.

• Retail sales up 5.5% 
• Fleet sales down 15.7%

That combination is the ideal situation. Sales declines overall at Ford are a great thing if the decline is entirely on the fleet side as it was in January 2020.

 

Sure, I think 2020 fleet decline is largely due to reduction in sales to cars to rental fleets. It's the least profitable part of Ford's business.

 

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Not if those were F150 fleet sales.

 

Also correct. Truck fleet sale was down 8.6% but we know van fleet sale was strong. So that means Ford lost a lot of high profit F150 fleet sales. Probably due to combination of COVID related reduced order from business and Govt and model switch over inventory supply/volume constrains. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

There's ample demand for new 2021 F-150 by retail consumers. Ford is focused on getting current F-150 owners on the retail side to "upgrade" to the new version, which is definitely the right strategy.

 

The quality of sales matters more than quantity in this case. And that means any decline in fleet sales with 2021 F-150 compared to the previous model is a very good thing.

 

Horse hockey.   F150 fleet sales probably make WAY more profit than a retail CUV sale.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

F150 fleet sales probably make WAY more profit than a retail CUV sale.

 

The proper comparison is not a single F-150 fleet sale to a single CUV retail sale, but F-150 fleet sales in aggregate to F-150 retail sales in aggregate. The latter always represents a higher quality set of transactions.