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3-Row Luxury SUV Comparison Test: 2020 BMW X7 vs. Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, Mercedes-Benz GLS-Class


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8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I know that, I'm just impressed that you still found that article all this time later...thus my comment.

 

That "article" is a rant by the infamous Autoextremist. On a few occasions he might come to his senses and share something insightful and logical. But his 27 October 1999 rant, like most of his others, are full of comical claims that make no sense at all.

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Just now, rperez817 said:

 

That "article" is a rant by the infamous Autoextremist. On a few occasions he might come to his senses and share something insightful and logical. But his 27 October 1999 rant, like most of his others, are full of comical claims that make no sense at all.

 

Ummm....he was there - were you?  He was actually in the room and he worked on the potential ad campaign for Chrysler's K car.   Why would a car company have to detail exactly how they would advertise the winning vehicle unless it played a part in the decision?

 

And it makes perfect sense if you consider how much free advertising Motor Trend gets from the award.

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6 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

The Navigator would have scored even better if Lincoln didn't force Black Label vehicles to ride on rubber band wheels (ok, that's hyperbole, but still big wheels with harder-riding low-profile tires). I am so tired of automakers forcing them on customers if they want options available only in the high trim. Fine if buyers want them, but hey, at least give them a choice.

 

Noted from the article: " 'The Lincoln suffers the same fine ride quality issue as the Cadillac,' Evans said. 'Both cars suffer the same big-wheels/skinny-sidewalls syndrome, but you feel it more in the Lincoln.' "  Ok, I can understand it if the vehicle is a sports car, but as the article noted, "Whereas there's an unmistakable sporty pretense to the way the BMW, Cadillac, and Mercedes drive, the Navigator harkens back to an almost forgotten era where sporty cars were sporty and luxury cars were truly luxurious." (...and the article meant that in a good sense.)

How many millions of $ did engineering spend on these suspension systems and then someone comes in and slaps these rubber bands on the wheels.  When does it stop, 30 inch, 40 inch wheels...ridiculous, stop with these asinine wheel sizes.

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I always used to laugh about how I could pick the car or truck of the year award winner before it was revealed. I think the criteria was that it had to be "all- new" but some where in there " substantially updated " or something like that came in to play later on which allowed them to broaden their criteria.

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1 hour ago, T hawker said:

How many millions of $ did engineering spend on these suspension systems and then someone comes in and slaps these rubber bands on the wheels.  When does it stop, 30 inch, 40 inch wheels...ridiculous, stop with these asinine wheel sizes.

 

Wheel size are getting bigger mostly because brake rotors are getting bigger and/or require better air flow for cooling due to performance and weight of modern vehicles. It is common now to have 14" or 15" rotors in non-performance SUVs so 18-20" wheels are quite normal since you need some clearance for the calipers. On some performance SUVs, 15.5", 16", or 16.5" rotors are now starting to be normal so 21 or 22" wheels are required.

 

Not saying Navigator needs 22" wheels but just pointing out that it is not unusual for SUVs to come with wheels that big. And it's not asinine. It is big for a real technical reason. You want adequate braking power on a 5,000 lbs SUV with 400+ hp.

Edited by bzcat
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1 hour ago, timsvtgen1 said:

I always used to laugh about how I could pick the car or truck of the year award winner before it was revealed. I think the criteria was that it had to be "all- new" but some where in there " substantially updated " or something like that came in to play later on which allowed them to broaden their criteria.


Thats still the criteria for most OTY awards - only new or significantly updated vehicles are eligible.

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On 2/8/2021 at 2:49 PM, akirby said:

First Bronco Sport and now Navigator.   Did Farley open up the checkbook to Motor Trend?

I was thinking the same thing. But also, Motor Trend has had a new exec editor in the last year or so. Edward Loh was the editor when Ford was the "automotive apocalypse", and the mood lightened when he moved on. Mr. Loh also seemed not to care too much for Honda either.

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On 2/8/2021 at 3:03 PM, PREMiERdrum said:

He opened the checkbook to let the engineers and designers do their thing... and probably a few comp'd martini lunches with the MT folks. 

At any rate, whatever Farley is doing it is working.  I haven’t seen this much good press about Ford in a long time.

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16 minutes ago, slemke said:

At any rate, whatever Farley is doing it is working.  I haven’t seen this much good press about Ford in a long time.

 

Yes sir slemke. The awards that Ford won recently for vehicles like Navigator, F-150, Bronco Sport, and Mustang Mach-E reflect well on Jim Hackett, who introduced design thinking and a fitness regime for Ford, and Jim Farley, who is doing a good job strengthening the foundation Hackett put in place.

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MT also just did a comparison test of supercars including the new Covette, Porsche Turbo S, and GT 500 came in 2nd, only behind the Lambo and ahead of the Turbo S and Corvette. The MT drivers loved the GT 500 even more than the GT 350. There were at least 8 vehicles compared and GT came in 2nd to a $250,000+ super machine. The new Corvette came in 5th, and MT reviewers were surprised. The GT 500 was a joy to drive fast and brake.

 

When I saw the Raiti ride review of the GT 500 and the look on his face as he accelerated hard, I knew Ford Performance killed it. What a vehicle. Not necessarily the fastest in a straight line or road course, but plenty fast and just a blast to drive. As they said, the Turbo S is too clinical. Ford got it right like Porsche did with the 911 R a few years ago.

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5 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

MT also just did a comparison test of supercars including the new Covette, Porsche Turbo S, and GT 500 came in 2nd, only behind the Lambo and ahead of the Turbo S and Corvette. 

 

That's great, and shows that Jim Hackett's "design thinking" was applied well to Shelby GT500, just as it was to Lincoln Navigator. Both products do a good job transcending objective measures of performance alone and achieve a positive emotional connection between man (or woman) and machine.

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On 2/9/2021 at 10:49 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Ed Loh remains Editor-in-Chief at Motor Trend. Edward Loh, Automotive Journalist (motortrend.com)

No, he was promoted to oversee the Motor trend group, which included America's Top Gear show and other magazines under the Motor trend umbrella. Mark Rechtin is the editor of the Motor Trend magazine from Jan. 2020 to now. It seemed like they lightened up on Ford right after this. https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardloh/ 

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10 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

No, he was promoted to oversee the Motor trend group, which included America's Top Gear show and other magazines under the Motor trend umbrella. Mark Rechtin is the editor of the Motor Trend magazine from Jan. 2020 to now. It seemed like they lightened up on Ford right after this. https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardloh/ 

 

Thank you atomcat68 sir for the info on Mr. Loh's and Mr. Rechtin's new job roles at Motor Trend, that is good to know.

 

Regardless of who is Motor Trend's chief editor, the magazine has always and continues to recognize excellence from Ford. Nothing has changed in that respect. The comparison test mentioned in this thread is a good example.

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5 hours ago, ESP08 said:

 

It doesn't surprise me.  Both the Navigator and new Aviator are very strong products.  

What is surprising is how well it has aged.  Cadillac had a full model cycle to make a better Navigator, and it appears they came up a little short.  The xt6 isn’t even close to the Aviator.  Maybe the previous generation Explorer.

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