JX1 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) On 2/14/2021 at 9:34 AM, fuzzymoomoo said: S650 is a 23 model. If you’re looking at recent history of Mustang launches, prototypes won't be out during daylight hours any time soon and they sure as hell won't have that little amount of camo on them. We won't see a prototype out in daylight hours until much closer to the reveal. See also: Bronco. That's not fully accurate is it? The S550 back in June 2013, was first seen in its production body, which aldo was the same story for 2015 F-150 (Atlas Concept teased it 5 mos earlier). According to the designer, the first full prototypes were built in May 2013 based on the design and hit the road quickly. I also remember seeing these photos in November 2012, plus reading a guy from Ford making this comment in October 2012, following leaked info of a September 2012 focus group clinic. Save for a few contradictions above (i.e. Ford claims they were done choosing in Jan of 2012), feels like S550 was locked in about a month before Xmas in 2012 and 5-6 months later, first prototypes were built in May 2013. Then on camera by early June. Matches 2021 F-150 to a tee, no hiding period (mid-April assembly & first shots May 2019). The Bronco and new Ranger were definitely hidden for a long time, but latest 2021 F-150 wasn't for some reason. That was already on camera within 2 weeks of the first p702 testers built in April 19, 2019, yet Bronco wasn't seen, on purpose. Didn't see it for 8 months, maybe because of Ranger leak and Bronco R concept (similar to 2015 F-150 testers & Atlas) From my googling, new Bronco according to some insiders, was designed up until middle of 2018 and then it was handed off to engineering, while smaller details were worked on for much longer. Styling wasn't locked in, until about 2 years before original pre-covid date of 12/7. Late 2018? Plus, Ranger leak from AUS in Feb of 19 was cuz of a final design decision that same month. Many engineers on that truck also point to Feb 2019 as a crucial point in the '23 Ranger for some reason, the same month we got that Wheels AU leak. Coincidence? Probably not, hence Ford being really pissed. With the not so major amount of changes made for '21, I doubt that the newest F150 design was dialed in anytime before 2018. Looks like it's usually a 2 yr gap and at highest, 3 yrs (aluminum '15 F150). So those prototypes were made pretty quick. 2015 F150 took way longer to show up and wasn't spotted in camo until roughly 1 1/2 years after the final styling (P552?) mockups were probably made in-house in 2011. I heard that from Jon Fontaine years ago, as he threw out 2011 as the year he saw the final shape. Maybe in that case, Ford wanted to debut the Atlas Concept first in Jan 2013 and held proper prototypes to vest? Plus wait until GM released their new '14 K2 1/2 tons? Atlas project took all of 2012 to develop, based on '15 design, I read. With that info, they stuck with aluminum previous gen body mules on daylight rounds until after the concept debuted. 2012 Aluminum test mule Anyway, no one knows if S650 runs will be played close to vest or put to public daytime runs, as soon as it's ready. It's up to those dudes 'n gals in charge, what goes to full field runs 24/7 or becomes a marketing experiment with "spy" pics. They didn't hide the S550, so we'll see what goes. They're only going to hide it if they need a concept to preview it first. Edited February 16, 2021 by JX1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) Ford has rethought and redone their entire design and engineering process since 2012/13. Yes you are correct that the Bronco design was locked in by late 2018 (which is when I first saw the CAD drawings) but the prototypes weren't built until around April of 2019, and they didn't start driving around in daylight hours until late summer 2019 (about 6 months before the originally scheduled debut before COVID happened) which is right around when we saw the first spy shots. Expect S650 to take a similar timeline. Trust me, if S650 Prototypes have been built they are most definitely not out in daylight hours and they have not likely made it off of the test tracks yet either. What OP posted may have elements of the new S650 drivetrain and/or suspension (I am not privy to that information and I wouldn't be comfortable disclosing that at this point anyway) but it is definitely not a full blown prototype. Edited February 16, 2021 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JX1 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Ford has rethought and redone their entire design and engineering process since 2012/13. Yes you are correct that the Bronco design was locked in by late 2018 (which is when I first saw the CAD drawings) but the prototypes weren't built until around April of 2019, and they didn't start driving around in daylight hours until late summer 2019 (about 6 months before the originally scheduled debut before COVID happened) which is right around when we saw the first spy shots. Expect S650 to take a similar timeline. Trust me, if S650 Prototypes have been built they are most definitely not out in daylight hours and they have not likely made it off of the test tracks yet either. What OP posted may have elements of the new S650 drivetrain and/or suspension (I am not privy to that information and I wouldn't be comfortable disclosing that at this point anyway) but it is definitely not a full blown prototype. Thank you for explaining that for me, but why were they less hesitant to put out 2021 F150s to testing in May 2019 IN PUBLIC, just 2 weeks after what were first units built? Before that, it was mules of hybrid and EV using the last gen body. That's what throws me for a loop lol, as 8-10 years is a long time in corporate tendencies as you said. The newest F150 was the only anomaly when you compare to it the newer Explorer, Escape, Mach E, Maverick, Bronco, Ranger, and Bronco Sport, which took much longer to surface, as testing was kept from sight. It was weird to me, but you probably know more. What I did notice, is Ford under Hackett, deliberately kept such spy shots from surfacing of new models until +/- 1 year before on-sale date. Under the previous admins, it varied and they put them out as soon as they were ready or waited until about 1 1/2 years before on-sale date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JX1 said: Thank you for explaining that for me, but why were they less hesitant to put out 2021 F150s to testing in May 2019 IN PUBLIC, just 2 weeks after what were first units built? Before that, it was mules of hybrid and EV using the last gen body. I do not have an answer to that question. Thinking logically it was probably intentional seeing as RAM had just come out with a new truck and the GM twins had just debuted. Ford probably wanted to make it known that the new F-150 was in the works and coming soon. 2 minutes ago, JX1 said: What I did notice, is Ford under Hackett, deliberately kept such spy shots from surfacing of new models until +/- 1 year before on-sale date. Under the previous admins, it varied and they put them out as soon as they were ready or waited until about 1 1/2 years before on-sale date. IMO that's very much intentional. The biggest complaints we've seen is Ford tends to take FOREVER between reveal and production. They’re making a conscious effort to tighten that gap, Bronco notwithstanding and COVID has a lot to do with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JX1 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 57 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I do not have an answer to that question. Thinking logically it was probably intentional seeing as RAM had just come out with a new truck and the GM twins had just debuted. Ford probably wanted to make it known that the new F-150 was in the works and coming soon. IMO that's very much intentional. The biggest complaints we've seen is Ford tends to take FOREVER between reveal and production. They’re making a conscious effort to tighten that gap, Bronco notwithstanding and COVID has a lot to do with that. Ah, gotcha. Answered so much and makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Trust me, if S650 Prototypes have been built they are most definitely not out in daylight hours and they have not likely made it off of the test tracks yet either. What OP posted may have elements of the new S650 drivetrain and/or suspension (I am not privy to that information and I wouldn't be comfortable disclosing that at this point anyway) but it is definitely not a full blown prototype. That's absolutely what I was referring to. Perhaps my interpretation of mule and prototype are incorrect, but for me: Mule - a vehicle based on an existing (in this case S550) body but using some parts that will be used on the next gen (S650) vehicle. In this case, we can tell it has different brakes, so the assumption is these new brakes will be seen on S650 [/img] Prototype - a much more developed vehicle that is, in all intents and purposes, production intent in 95% of its components. [/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I do not have an answer to that question. Thinking logically it was probably intentional seeing as RAM had just come out with a new truck and the GM twins had just debuted. Ford probably wanted to make it known that the new F-150 was in the works and coming soon. IMO that's very much intentional. The biggest complaints we've seen is Ford tends to take FOREVER between reveal and production. They’re making a conscious effort to tighten that gap, Bronco notwithstanding and COVID has a lot to do with that. Yeah, I find it annoying how it's always about a year between reveal and production. Never understood why they can't show it closer to when they want to produce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Yeah, I find it annoying how it's always about a year between reveal and production. Never understood why they can't show it closer to when they want to produce it. That's been my frustration too. Some others do the reveal and then enter production/arrival on dealer lots within months. Hopefully with Farley at the helm, the time gap in between will be much shorter. Perhaps starting with the Maverick/upcoming Fusion crossover/S650 Mustang, this will finally happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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