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SK Innovation loses U.S. battery trade case but gets temporary OK to sell to Ford, VW

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The mass shooting issue is same as birds getting killed by windmills...

 

There are more firearms in the US then there are people in the country and all it takes is one person to do something stupid with them. Why should the other 99.999% of owners who are responsible suffer because of that?

 

There are plenty of laws out there and people slip through the cracks because someone doesn't do there job (see the situation in Minnesota that happened a few weeks back) 

 

More laws aren't going to fix the issue and its a right in the US constitution. 

 

 

Now what happened in MN?

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Half the country will believe it and half won't, just like everything else. 

AOC and Abbott are already duking it out.  Abbott claiming green energy is to blame and AOC claiming it is everything else.  They are both partially correct and wrong at the same time.

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Just now, slemke said:

AOC and Abbott are already duking it out.  Abbott claiming green energy is to blame and AOC claiming it is everything else.  They are both partially correct and wrong at the same time.


And both of them are people who's opinion I don't value at all. 

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15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I'm sure there will be a thorough public colonoscopy into the events happening in Texas.

 

...the danger being people will scream, "just do something!" and something then will be done, possibly making things worse, but in different and exciting ways!

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17 hours ago, slemke said:

They are heading in the direction you want them to go. 

 

Yes sir slemke, that direction is Ford and Volkswagen surviving past 2030. I want both companies to not only survive, but thrive long term. Making a corporate wide commitment to go "all in" with electric vehicles is a necessary, though not sufficient, action to achieve that goal.

 

So while Ford and Volkswagen have a lot of work ahead of them, it's good that top executives at both companies realize that they need to get out of the "old world" of ICE powered vehicles and into the "new world" of EV and AV as soon as possible. And collaborate with each other and with key supplier firms to make that happen.

Edited by rperez817

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6 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

...the danger being people will scream, "just do something!" and something then will be done, possibly making things worse, but in different and exciting ways!

Also have to be careful here that a one in thirty-five year freak weather pattern is not presented as the new norm.

It would be unwise to abandon green power generation simply because a weather event found out an unprepared 

power utility and water pipes freezing too. Best thing they can do is learn from it and do a measured response 

so that people don't lose power and water during the next freak event 

 

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir slemke, that direction is Ford and Volkswagen surviving past 2030. I want both companies to not only survive, but thrive long term. Making a corporate wide commitment to go "all in" with electric vehicles is a necessary, though not sufficient, action to achieve that goal.

 

So while Ford and Volkswagen have a lot of work ahead of them, it's good that top executives at both companies realize that they need to get out of the "old world" of ICE powered vehicles and into the "new world" of EV and AV as soon as possible. And collaborate with each other and with key supplier firms to make that happen.

Ford and VW look to be a good fit as far as this alliance extends but also, VW is doing a lot of work with electrifying 

heavy road transport, that may be an opportunity for Ford to co-invest and re-enter class 8 with some more VW help.

Edited by jpd80

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9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Also have to be careful here that a one in thirty-five year freak weather pattern is not presented as the new norm.

It would be unwise to abandon green power generation simply because a weather event found out an unprepared 

power utility and water pipes freezing too. Best thing they can do is learn from it and do a measured response 

so that people don't lose power and water during the next freak event 

 

Correct.  But it is a stretch to think a measured response will result in no power outages in the future.  We should set our expectations that it will happen again.  Prepare as seen fit.

 

if I still lived in my old house, I would have bought a generator years ago.  But, my new neighborhood has underground utilities and fewer above ground lines between the neighborhood and the substation.  I can get by with some batteries and power inverters to keep the essentials running.  No need for a generator to take up valuable space in the garage to be used once every 5-10 years.  Everyone needs to make their own judgment as to how much to spend on mitigating the risk...from power utilities to individuals.  If the utility doesn’t provide the level of security you desire, supplement it yourself, don’t ask others to do it for you.  
 

Texans seem pretty independent like those in the Dakotas.  I’m not expecting utilities or state government to make big changes, just take care of some minimal cost low hanging fruit type of stuff.

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17 minutes ago, slemke said:

Correct.  But it is a stretch to think a measured response will result in no power outages in the future.  We should set our expectations that it will happen again.  Prepare as seen fit.

 

if I still lived in my old house, I would have bought a generator years ago.  But, my new neighborhood has underground utilities and fewer above ground lines between the neighborhood and the substation.  I can get by with some batteries and power inverters to keep the essentials running.  No need for a generator to take up valuable space in the garage to be used once every 5-10 years.  Everyone needs to make their own judgment as to how much to spend on mitigating the risk...from power utilities to individuals.  If the utility doesn’t provide the level of security you desire, supplement it yourself, don’t ask others to do it for you.  
 

Texans seem pretty independent like those in the Dakotas.  I’m not expecting utilities or state government to make big changes, just take care of some minimal cost low hanging fruit type of stuff.

 

In a freak weather  event like the current one, power outages in places like Texas  are to be expected

but if they can be reduced or eliminated by learnings and good preventative measures  the outcome

 will be a lot better for many people.

Edited by jpd80

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5 hours ago, slemke said:

if I still lived in my old house, I would have bought a generator years ago.  But, my new neighborhood has underground utilities and fewer above ground lines between the neighborhood and the substation.  I can get by with some batteries and power inverters to keep the essentials running.  No need for a generator to take up valuable space in the garage to be used once every 5-10 years.  Everyone needs to make their own judgment as to how much to spend on mitigating the risk...from power utilities to individuals.  If the utility doesn’t provide the level of security you desire, supplement it yourself, don’t ask others to do it for you.  


A few people I follow on twitter live in Texas and got by with the Tesla power wall and solar tiles. Never lost power once and the tiles still worked even after being completely covered with snow. Honestly, it really sold me on the system. I probably won't invest in it for my current house but when we do move in a few years I will definitely look into it. 

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You do root cause analysis and identify corrective or preventative actions.  Then you weigh the cost of those actions against the impact of not doing them which includes frequency of occurrence.  Maybe a better/faster more prepared deicing plan for the wind turbines and minor improvements in the natural gas infrastructure would be enough.

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:

You do root cause analysis and identify corrective or preventative actions.  Then you weigh the cost of those actions against the impact of not doing them which includes frequency of occurrence.  Maybe a better/faster more prepared deicing plan for the wind turbines and minor improvements in the natural gas infrastructure would be enough.

And some better insulation on the pumping equipment at the nuclear plants.  As battery technology improves, more can be added at a lower cost as part of the regular replacement strategy.  Maybe underground storage where the temperature is more stable.  Many options to consider and as you stated do the analysis to make wise engineering decisions.

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7 minutes ago, slemke said:

Many options to consider and as you stated do the analysis to make wise engineering decisions.


The problem is you’re asking government to make a wise decision. There's is no government on any level in the US that is capable of doing that at the moment. What’s more likely is they will just throw a bunch of money at it and hope it goes away. 

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


A few people I follow on twitter live in Texas and got by with the Tesla power wall and solar tiles. Never lost power once and the tiles still worked even after being completely covered with snow. Honestly, it really sold me on the system. I probably won't invest in it for my current house but when we do move in a few years I will definitely look into it. 

Price is still too high, though.  Battery backup systems that allow the panels to charge them when disconnected from the grid are expensive.  I’ve looked into it and buying an F150 powerboost hybrid with pro power comes out ahead.  I’m really hoping Ford allows their battery packs in BEVs to be connected to your house as a mobile power wall similarly to how I use my outdoor power equipment batteries to run inverters for backup and mobile power.

 

Enphase has a pretty decent system that I was looking at.  But, a 10kwh battery was still $10k.  The transfer switch another $3.5k, $2k for the controller, $150 per inverter at each panel, and the cost of the panels themselves.  A lot of extra money for something that will rarely be used.  My electric rates are low enough that with my west facing roof, the payoff for a grid tried system with no backup exceeds the useful life of the panels.

 

Using the tiles when my roof needs to be replaced or on new construction may change the economics.  They will be considered.

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1 minute ago, slemke said:

I’ve looked into it and buying an F150 powerboost hybrid with pro power comes out ahead.


I asked about that last week when I got my new car. Unless you’re looking to buy (and either pay cash or not finance through ford credit) the monthly payment is outrageous. Same with Escape hybrid. 

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2 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


The problem is you’re asking government to make a wise decision. There's is no government on any level in the US that is capable of doing that at the moment. What’s more likely is they will just throw a bunch of money at it and hope it goes away. 

No, I’m asking business to make a wise decision.  I want government to stay out of it.  Many of the environmental issues government blames on industry are due to half baked government policies.

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3 minutes ago, slemke said:

Enphase has a pretty decent system that I was looking at.  But, a 10kwh battery was still $10k.  The transfer switch another $3.5k, $2k for the controller, $150 per inverter at each panel, and the cost of the panels themselves.  A lot of extra money for something that will rarely be used.  My electric rates are low enough that with my west facing roof, the payoff for a grid tried system with no backup exceeds the useful life of the panels.

 

Using the tiles when my roof needs to be replaced or on new construction may change the economics.  They will be considered.


Im looking at 2-3 years down the road at minimum anyway. Now, I live in Michigan where the cartel known as DTE Energy has all but killed any incentive to add a solar panel system to your home, let alone a battery backup so I don't see the economics changing here any time soon. I might just bite the bullet and add it anyway just so I can pay them as little money as possible every month. 

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3 minutes ago, slemke said:

No, I’m asking business to make a wise decision.  I want government to stay out of it.  Many of the environmental issues government blames on industry are due to half baked government policies.


Texas' grid right now has been entirely privatized and we all see how well that's working out for them.

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1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I asked about that last week when I got my new car. Unless you’re looking to buy (and either pay cash or not finance through ford credit) the monthly payment is outrageous. Same with Escape hybrid. 

Cash, credit union, or Ford credit and refinance later.  Might be a Corsair hybrid, though.  Not getting anything until the Aviator is paid off and I actually need to drive somewhere.  Otherwise, it just sits in the garage.

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Just now, slemke said:

Might be a Corsair hybrid, though.


Good luck finding one, they're more rare right now than Escape hybrids. 

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1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Texas' grid right now has been entirely privatized and we all see how well that's working out for them.

But with plenty of government intervention.  Mandate unreliable green power, but not strict enough requirements for keeping the reliability up.  But, reliability isn’t the goal of the green coalition.  They are arguing for routine outages in order to switch over to green energy quicker.

 

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22 minutes ago, slemke said:

And some better insulation on the pumping equipment at the nuclear plants.  As battery technology improves, more can be added at a lower cost as part of the regular replacement strategy.  Maybe underground storage where the temperature is more stable.  Many options to consider and as you stated do the analysis to make wise engineering decisions.


Exactly.  Sometimes cheap and easy changes are all that you really need.  Especially process changes,

 

Also, you don’t have to eliminate the problem completely.  E.g. a 4 hour rolling blackout once a day would suck but it’s really just a minor inconvenience if it happens once every 20 years,

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13 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Texas' grid right now has been entirely privatized and we all see how well that's working out for them.


They didn’t plan for this worst case scenario.  Happens a lot.  Doesn’t matter if it’s private or govt.  But private industry can and probably will respond faster than a govt agency.

 

Edited by akirby

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10 minutes ago, akirby said:


They didn’t plan for this worst case scenario.  Happens a lot.  Doesn’t matter if it’s private or govt.  But private industry can and probably will respond faster than a govt agency.

 


I won't argue there. Government in itself is a monopoly, there's no incentive for them to be quick, do it right or the most efficient way possible. 

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46 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I won't argue there. Government in itself is a monopoly, there's no incentive for them to be quick, do it right or the most efficient way possible. 


I will say the govt can be better in one circumstance - where a private company decides not to do something because it hurts their profitability.  E.g safety recalls.  

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