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Chief of Cherokee Nation wants Jeep to stop using tribe’s name on SUVs


jasonj80

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Or do nothing because fake outrage shouldn’t be given half as much consideration as this opportunist has received.  
 

It amazes me how many adult children are being validated like this.  It should never have grown to this and this clown should have been told to man up and control your feelings.  
 

But no, this emboldens people to search for other things that offend their snowflake feelings....like Mr Potato Head or Speedy Gonzalez. 

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North Dakota went through a whole kerfuffle a few years ago with University of North Dakota mascot, the Fighting Sioux.  I went to UND.  I never once saw the mascot's name being used in a derogatory manner.

We have 2 main tribes in ND.  NCAA said we had to get approval from both to continue using the name.  The northern tribe nearest to UND agreed to allow them to use the name.  The tribe in the south had their tribal counsel vote against it by just one vote.  Their members wanted to have it to a vote of the tribe, but the counsel refused.  From polling, it would have won by a large margin.  But it wasn't approved, and in short, UND changed their name.

Bismarck area has a lot of native names being used in places.  There have been objections to the park naming for example, Custer park.  But more is coming.

 

Here is my point.  I get it when native names aren't being used respectfully.  I have no gripe with that.  But my concern is if we keep removing the Native American names from absolutely everything, aren't we wiping them from memory?  At some point the names won't be spoken and history will be forgotten.  And that's a bad thing.

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7 minutes ago, 92merc said:

North Dakota went through a whole kerfuffle a few years ago with University of North Dakota mascot, the Fighting Sioux.  I went to UND.  I never once saw the mascot's name being used in a derogatory manner.

We have 2 main tribes in ND.  NCAA said we had to get approval from both to continue using the name.  The northern tribe nearest to UND agreed to allow them to use the name.  The tribe in the south had their tribal counsel vote against it by just one vote.  Their members wanted to have it to a vote of the tribe, but the counsel refused.  From polling, it would have won by a large margin.  But it wasn't approved, and in short, UND changed their name.

Bismarck area has a lot of native names being used in places.  There have been objections to the park naming for example, Custer park.  But more is coming.

 

Here is my point.  I get it when native names aren't being used respectfully.  I have no gripe with that.  But my concern is if we keep removing the Native American names from absolutely everything, aren't we wiping them from memory?  At some point the names won't be spoken and history will be forgotten.  And that's a bad thing.

 

Same for civil war stuff in the South.   I get that we shouldn't be celebrating the confederacy and there is no reason to have a confederate flag on any government property, but tearing down statues?   Some groups want to obliterate the carving on Stone Mountain.  I think it's better to simply add narration that describes history and reminds people of what took place and why.  To me that's far more effective than trying to remove them altogether.

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2 hours ago, 92merc said:

North Dakota went through a whole kerfuffle a few years ago with University of North Dakota mascot, the Fighting Sioux.  I went to UND.  I never once saw the mascot's name being used in a derogatory manner.

We have 2 main tribes in ND.  NCAA said we had to get approval from both to continue using the name.  The northern tribe nearest to UND agreed to allow them to use the name.  The tribe in the south had their tribal counsel vote against it by just one vote.  Their members wanted to have it to a vote of the tribe, but the counsel refused.  From polling, it would have won by a large margin.  But it wasn't approved, and in short, UND changed their name.

Bismarck area has a lot of native names being used in places.  There have been objections to the park naming for example, Custer park.  But more is coming.

 

Here is my point.  I get it when native names aren't being used respectfully.  I have no gripe with that.  But my concern is if we keep removing the Native American names from absolutely everything, aren't we wiping them from memory?  At some point the names won't be spoken and history will be forgotten.  And that's a bad thing.


Central Michigan University has this come up every now and then since their nickname is The Chippewas. Never do they ever use any sort of Native American imagery anywhere in marketing on campus and the Saginaw Valley Chippewa Tribe works in tandem with the university administrators on all kinds of good will type programs, not to mention half of the campus itself is on tribal land. 

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2 hours ago, 92merc said:

North Dakota went through a whole kerfuffle a few years ago with University of North Dakota mascot, the Fighting Sioux.  I went to UND.  I never once saw the mascot's name being used in a derogatory manner.

We have 2 main tribes in ND.  NCAA said we had to get approval from both to continue using the name.  The northern tribe nearest to UND agreed to allow them to use the name.  The tribe in the south had their tribal counsel vote against it by just one vote.  Their members wanted to have it to a vote of the tribe, but the counsel refused.  From polling, it would have won by a large margin.  But it wasn't approved, and in short, UND changed their name.

Bismarck area has a lot of native names being used in places.  There have been objections to the park naming for example, Custer park.  But more is coming.

 

Here is my point.  I get it when native names aren't being used respectfully.  I have no gripe with that.  But my concern is if we keep removing the Native American names from absolutely everything, aren't we wiping them from memory?  At some point the names won't be spoken and history will be forgotten.  And that's a bad thing.

 

It's erasing history to pretend it didn't happen, and they think then suddenly everything will be roses and unicorns, when quite the contrary is true.   We need to maintain the history and learn from it how NOT to do things.

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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's erasing history to pretend it didn't happen, and they think then suddenly everything will be roses and unicorns, when quite the contrary is true.   We need to maintain the history and learn from it how NOT to do things.

 

In the case of the Cherokee nation, it is not erasing history, rather it is the fact that their name is being used "for free" by a large corporation.... I am sure that if Stellantis hits them off with a profit sharing check, all will be forgiven....for a price. If not, they can rename it something else.

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3 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

In the case of the Cherokee nation, it is not erasing history, rather it is the fact that their name is being used "for free" by a large corporation.... I am sure that if Stellantis hits them off with a profit sharing check, all will be forgiven....for a price. If not, they can rename it something else.

 

But wasn't it given the blessing originally?

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23 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's erasing history to pretend it didn't happen, and they think then suddenly everything will be roses and unicorns, when quite the contrary is true.   We need to maintain the history and learn from it how NOT to do things.

That doesn't fully make sense though, because they won't shut up about it. It's always systemic racism this,  subconsciousbias that....reperations and social justice everything.

 

It's actually not about forgetting the past, it's about rewriting it to better fit their narrative.

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20 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

In the case of the Cherokee nation, it is not erasing history, rather it is the fact that their name is being used "for free" by a large corporation.... I am sure that if Stellantis hits them off with a profit sharing check, all will be forgiven....for a price. If not, they can rename it something else.

Stellantis should flip the script, and charge the cherokees for all the free advertising they're getting.

 

The whole argument is ridiculous, I don't see why they should have to pay because they chose to honor and celebrate the cherokee name by making it heir mascot. 

 

Either America is a melting pot, or we're not. Are we supposed to embrace and acknowledge each other's cultures, or does everyone have to keep seperate?

 

Kind of seems like we're trending opposite of true inclusivity.

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2 hours ago, probowler said:

Stellantis should flip the script, and charge the cherokees for all the free advertising they're getting.

 

The whole argument is ridiculous, I don't see why they should have to pay because they chose to honor and celebrate the cherokee name by making it heir mascot. 

 

Either America is a melting pot, or we're not. Are we supposed to embrace and acknowledge each other's cultures, or does everyone have to keep seperate?

 

Kind of seems like we're trending opposite of true inclusivity.

 

It boils down to one thing....money.

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Anytime it's not a certain group leading a charge to go against societal norms this site and most of the people writes it off as something unnecessary.  A lot of the things that you agree on or hold as beliefs are unnecessary but it's how society was ran. We're not about stay the same just because you don't like it, a lot of people don't like what you like. Get over it.

 

Who cares if it's about money no one on here is spending Stellantis' money nor are you involved in what the Cherokee Nation's finances are. It's stupid to think a corporate conglomerate is supposed to use a name, that was already in use before they used it, for free. The fact that it needed a blessing says it all or they would've went through the court system to gain the rights to use it. 

 

Also the confederacy having statues doesn't educate anyone on the history of this country nor does it erase it just because you don't reference it in everyday society. The easiest way to learn is to actually read multiple sources but Americans always want an easy way to do things.

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37 minutes ago, Justdatdude said:

Anytime it's not a certain group leading a charge to go against societal norms this site and most of the people writes it off as something unnecessary.  A lot of the things that you agree on or hold as beliefs are unnecessary but it's how society was ran. We're not about stay the same just because you don't like it, a lot of people don't like what you like. Get over it.

 

Who cares if it's about money no one on here is spending Stellantis' money nor are you involved in what the Cherokee Nation's finances are. It's stupid to think a corporate conglomerate is supposed to use a name, that was already in use before they used it, for free. The fact that it needed a blessing says it all or they would've went through the court system to gain the rights to use it. 

 

Also the confederacy having statues doesn't educate anyone on the history of this country nor does it erase it just because you don't reference it in everyday society. The easiest way to learn is to actually read multiple sources but Americans always want an easy way to do things.

 

It's more that these days everything is offensive, everything is racist, everything is discriminatory, everything is this and that.   MATH is now being considered racist.  If everything is those things, then nothing is those things.  I obviously don't condone any racist or discriminatory commentary/actions, but there needs to be actual looks at things.  If someone is told the number "3" is racist/discriminatory over and over and over and over, and/or is taught that growing up, then "3" will be such, whether it truly is or not.  Obviously that doesn't apply to everything, and there are cases that are truly racist and discriminatory, etc., but everything can't be that.

 

The Cherokee name has been in use on Jeeps since '74 according to what I looked up.  Why now?  If it's been so terrible, why not request demand Jeep not use the name every year since 1974?  I can better understand a case like the Redskins where it's a more derogatory term, but it's not as if Jeep is dragging the Cherokee name through the mud.

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29 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's more that these days everything is offensive, everything is racist, everything is discriminatory, everything is this and that.   MATH is now being considered racist.  If everything is those things, then nothing is those things.  I obviously don't condone any racist or discriminatory commentary/actions, but there needs to be actual looks at things.  If someone is told the number "3" is racist/discriminatory over and over and over and over, and/or is taught that growing up, then "3" will be such, whether it truly is or not.  Obviously that doesn't apply to everything, and there are cases that are truly racist and discriminatory, etc., but everything can't be that.

 

The Cherokee name has been in use on Jeeps since '74 according to what I looked up.  Why now?  If it's been so terrible, why not request demand Jeep not use the name every year since 1974?  I can better understand a case like the Redskins where it's a more derogatory term, but it's not as if Jeep is dragging the Cherokee name through the mud.

I haven't heard anything on Math being called racist, so that sounds like a strawman or a comedy article to get right leaning people upset.  I'm not disagreeing that people make issues out of things but so do the people responding to something that has no impact on them. Everything isn't racist but if you're only complaining about people of another race's perspective then, you may be. None of that matters in this particular story as the Cherokee nation said they don't want to be associated with an SUV. No one said it was about race.

 

So it's a causation of society because the Cherokee nation no longer wants to be associated with a Jeep suv? People can't decide for themselves what they like an dislike without it being a problem because you like it? If the name in itself is not responsible for their success then why not change it? 

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11 minutes ago, Justdatdude said:

I haven't heard anything on Math being called racist, so that sounds like a strawman or a comedy article to get right leaning people upset.  I'm not disagreeing that people make issues out of things but so do the people responding to something that has no impact on them. Everything isn't racist but if you're only complaining about people of another race's perspective then, you may be. None of that matters in this particular story as the Cherokee nation said they don't want to be associated with an SUV. No one said it was about race.

 

So it's a causation of society because the Cherokee nation no longer wants to be associated with a Jeep suv? People can't decide for themselves what they like an dislike without it being a problem because you like it? If the name in itself is not responsible for their success then why not change it? 

 

Thanks for calling me racist....

 

Huh?  Where did I say people can't like and dislike it?  We're all allowed to like and dislike what we want, and we're allowed to think things are stupid both ways.

 

I just said that it's suddenly a problem after it hasn't been for 50 years.   If people dislike the name so much, they won't buy the product, and Jeep will change it as it affects their pocketbook.  From a branding perspective, you don't throw away 50 years of a successful nameplate.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Thanks for calling me racist....

 

Huh?  Where did I say people can't like and dislike it?  We're all allowed to like and dislike what we want, and we're allowed to think things are stupid both ways.

 

I just said that it's suddenly a problem after it hasn't been for 50 years.   If people dislike the name so much, they won't buy the product, and Jeep will change it as it affects their pocketbook.  From a branding perspective, you don't throw away 50 years of a successful nameplate.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe it has been a problem for 50 years and now may be an appropriate time to fix it.  Just because we have allowed past mistakes to linger or be accepted for so long doesn't make it right or moral to continue with it.  Times change and people are no longer accepting of things that "most" people accepted 50 years ago.  I suggest that you consult your own moral compass and decide if things in the 1970's that were acceptable then are still acceptable to you now.

 

As Dr. King said "the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice."

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On 3/8/2021 at 12:09 PM, FR739 said:

It amazes me how many adult children are being validated like this.  It should never have grown to this and this clown should have been told to man up and control your feelings.  

 

Yes sir FR739. Wilma Mankiller was able to "man up" better than Chuck Hoskin Jr. Mankiller probably did more to reinvigorate Cherokee Nation than any other leader of the tribe in modern times. Good thing she didn't waste time and effort trying to shake down AMC or Chrysler back in the day about the Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee nameplates.

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