atomcat68 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 When you think about it, Chevrolet has "legend" cars with the Corvette and Suburban, the longest automotive nameplate. Then Silverado and Tahoe are close. They don't really need Camaro. If I were them, I'd design a super performance "take no prisoners" electric CUV and call it the Nomad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 hours ago, 351cid said: You are correct...and that chassis died in 2011 as the final Panthers. I have soooo many P71 Crown Vic parts on my 72 Gran Torino Sport. I'm even looking at adapting the rack & pinion to a 73 Ranchero I'm starting on. How much did the Panther have in common with the 65 full-size Ford platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, ehaase said: How much did the Panther have in common with the 65 full-size Ford platform? Probably nothing. The Panther platform was new-from-the-ground up, Ford's downsized big-car platform designed in response to the gas crisis of the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, ehaase said: How much did the Panther have in common with the 65 full-size Ford platform? The last generation was fairly different. R&P steering was one of the biggest changes. Panther was closer to the 72-79 midsize. My springs (front & rear) are P71, body to frame mounts, rear cross member, toe board patch rear disc brakes, & a few other things I can't think of unless I pull out my "build notebook". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, mackinaw said: Probably nothing. The Panther platform was new-from-the-ground up, Ford's downsized big-car platform designed in response to the gas crisis of the 70's. I am well aware of that. In 1978, I purchased a Popular Science magazine that had the first pictures of the cars. Very little of the history of the development of the platform has been written. I can find a lot more about the development of the downsized 1962 Dodge and Plymouth than I can about the Panther. Edited March 8, 2021 by ehaase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 The "hot" set up for F-100/150 series from 1995 back would be the Crown Victoria front suspension cradle that fits onto the frames of those trucks with relatively minor modifications...ditching the Twin-I-Beam front end for a modern SLA front suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 6 hours ago, 351cid said: "Mercury isn't going anywhere..." Ford said that one week before they announced it was being discontinued. I don't believe a thing FoMOCo (or any other manufacturer) says. Ford knows the PR nightmare that would ensue if they announced the Coupe was being phased out. I believe that is the plan and Ford is working that way now. I wasn't aware Ford said that Mercury wasn't going anywhere a week before they announced its demise. I did have concerns at first when the Mach-E was revealed that perhaps Ford was slowly preparing us to like the idea of the 'sub-brand' with 4-door electric crossover only to later kill off the coupe in the near future, leaving just that 4-door electric crossover. That was my concerns at first. However, as you said, the PR nightmare that would result from it would occur. Just look at the uproar when it was originally going to be called the Mach 1 before it was renamed Mach-E. But then look at akirby's list below:... 6 hours ago, akirby said: Anything is possible but several things make this very unlikely in the near future. 1. It's a Ford ICON along with F150 and Bronco 2. It can now share components with Explorer/Aviator and F150/Ranger/Bronco including electrification 3. They're making Mustang a sub brand with multiple vehicles 4. With Camaro going away and Challenger future unknown the market is wide open even if it's smaller now 5. People are still willing to pay big bucks for performance models This. This makes sense and was all explained over time which made me embrace the sub-brand of Mustang. Just like how Ford is doing with the Bronco. Bill Ford is one of the biggest Mustang fan within the family and he will make sure the V8 coupe stay for good. Look at the development of the S650 for example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniffen Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 If the Mustang came with the similar style of the Mach-E, except 2.3 E//B, AWD I'd be interested in checking it out and maybe purchasing, if not too crazy $$$$. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I'm both disappointed with and pissed at Ford right now...42 years of Ford ownership. That took some doing! I still have a tendency to gravitate toward Ford when contemplating the next purchase; but I'm pretty sure it will not be since they no longer sell sedans & their SUV product quality sucks at best. When the Mustang Coupe with a V8 is dropped; that will be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 hours ago, mackinaw said: Probably nothing. The Panther platform was new-from-the-ground up, Ford's downsized big-car platform designed in response to the gas crisis of the 70's. I beg to differ, sir. Pull the body off of a 72 Gran Torino & a 2006 Crown Vic (I've done just that) and you would see the Panther was a tweaked mid size. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Wouldn't we start seeing hacked up mules soon if this were coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, 351cid said: I beg to differ, sir. Pull the body off of a 72 Gran Torino & a 2006 Crown Vic (I've done just that) and you would see the Panther was a tweaked mid size. Nope, the Panther was new from the ground up in 1979: Ford Panther platform - Wikipedia An American Icon: Ford's Panther Platform (motortrend.com) The 1979 new fullsize Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth were just rebodied intermediates, and only lasted 3 model years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 9 hours ago, akirby said: Nothing official from GM but lots of Media reports that the next gen Camaro was cancelled and the current one would end after 2023. They could always just decide to keep the current one going for a few more years with a facelift. I read somewhere recently that they are keeping the current one around until 2026, and replace it with an EV version after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 hours ago, rmc523 said: Wouldn't we start seeing hacked up mules soon if this were coming? Maybe. Or more plausible explanation... there is no 4 door Mustang. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 It could also be that the hybrid Mustang is the other variant being built at FRAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: It could also be that the hybrid Mustang is the other variant being built at FRAP. I do hope the hybrid Mustang still uses the Coyote V8..........and not just 4 or 6 cylinder versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Twin Turbo said: I do hope the hybrid Mustang still uses the Coyote V8..........and not just 4 or 6 cylinder versions. I remember some comment that the hybrid Mustang would give similar performance as a V8, so that went against the rumours of a hybrid coyote that were around at the time. I hope they do both...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) I'm guessing Ford will go with 3.5 EB Powerboost for Mustang hybrid - same setup as F-150. Makes sense from scale perspective... cost of emission compliance and certification is significant and can weigh heavily on a low volume sports car. Why not ride the coattail of the best selling vehicle? I think what is likely to happen is that 3.5 EB Powerboost Mustang will be automatic only. So if you want manual and more ahem, classic experience, you still have the 5.0 V8 option. Also almost a certainty is 2.3 PHEV which will also be in Ranger and likely Bronco. Again, Mustang will need to piggyback off higher volume vehicles so look at the powertrain coming down the pike for these other vehicles for clue. Purely a guess but I think we are looking at something like this: 2.3 EB - base model shared with Ranger (maybe with 48V electric assist) 2.3 EB PHEV - shared with Ranger, Ford will probably position this as the volume seller, it will be almost as powerful as the 5.0 V8 3.5 EB Powerboost hybrid - shared with F-150, this will be the most powerful non-Shelby 5.0 V8 - shared with F-150, probably will still offer a manual transmission 6.8 V8 - godzilla motor for GT500 shared with F-150 Raptor Edited March 9, 2021 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) You forgot Bronco and Explorer Edited March 9, 2021 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, bzcat said: I'm guessing Ford will go with 3.5 EB Powerboost for Mustang hybrid - same setup as F-150. Makes sense from scale perspective... cost of emission compliance and certification is significant and can weigh heavily on a low volume sports car. Why not ride the coattail of the best selling vehicle? I think what is likely to happen is that 3.5 EB Powerboost Mustang will be automatic only. So if you want manual and more ahem, classic experience, you still have the 5.0 V8 option. Also almost a certainty is 2.3 PHEV which will also be in Ranger and likely Bronco. Again, Mustang will need to piggyback off higher volume vehicles so look at the powertrain coming down the pike for these other vehicles for clue. Purely a guess but I think we are looking at something like this: 2.3 EB - base model shared with Ranger (maybe with 48V electric assist) 2.3 EB PHEV - shared with Ranger, Ford will probably position this as the volume seller, it will be almost as powerful as the 5.0 V8 3.5 EB Powerboost hybrid - shared with F-150, this will be the most powerful non-Shelby 5.0 V8 - shared with F-150, probably will still offer a manual transmission 6.8 V8 - godzilla motor for GT500 shared with F-150 Raptor It looks by 2025 or so all Ford vehicles will be either hybrid, plug in hybrid, and some will be BEV. So that means Ford will still be building ICE for many more years. Who knows how many years, but Ford may only offer BEV in Europe, but not here. Porsche has already come up with a synthetic fuel with no emissions, and ICE and hydrogen fuel cells are still evolving. No one has a crystal ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, akirby said: You forgot Bronco and Explorer I mentioned Bronco in the context of Ranger. I think the 2.3 PHEV being developed for T6 gen 2 find its way to S650. They are all due around the same time. Mid cycle update of CD6 will also follow S650 and T6 gen 2 so you are right that there will some interesting decisions on Explorer powertrain. Next gen Explorer will likely be EV only just based on timing around 2027 so I don't think it will factor in very much on S650 powertrain selection. The 2030 Mustang will very much take its EV cues from the 2028 Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/8/2021 at 10:53 PM, AGR said: Nope, the Panther was new from the ground up in 1979: Ford Panther platform - Wikipedia An American Icon: Ford's Panther Platform (motortrend.com) The 1979 new fullsize Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth were just rebodied intermediates, and only lasted 3 model years . They (Ford) can claim it was "new from the ground up". Pulling the body off the frame tells me it was a tweaked midsize frame. Too many dimensions were in common, as well as too much interchange. Not saying that's bad, just shows what a good chassis the 1965 design was. I guess kinda like the Coyote was a new engine; when in fact, it's based on the Modular series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 hours ago, 351cid said: They (Ford) can claim it was "new from the ground up" I think there's a requirement that says if there's a certain percentage of brand new parts then they can claim it's all new and not get in trouble for false advertising. I can't remember what that number is but 70% is what's ringing a bell. A tweaked frame would fall into that category because it would have a new part number in the catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I think there's a requirement that says if there's a certain percentage of brand new parts then they can claim it's all new and not get in trouble for false advertising. I can't remember what that number is but 70% is what's ringing a bell. A tweaked frame would fall into that category because it would have a new part number in the catalog. Makes sense. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I think there's a requirement that says if there's a certain percentage of brand new parts then they can claim it's all new and not get in trouble for false advertising. I can't remember what that number is but 70% is what's ringing a bell. A tweaked frame would fall into that category because it would have a new part number in the catalog. It's fair to say that the Panther grew out of an evolution of the earlier mid sized BOFs and if every part was worked on and changed slightly, it becomes a new part. Heck, if we step back and look at the whole Panther engineering, mechanical, electrical HVAC and supplier networks, the claim of being all new is more than justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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