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FR739

Tesla admits it purposely misleads its customers

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https://www.autoblog.com/2021/03/09/tesla-full-self-driving-level-2-sae/

 

Ok so not directly but purposely advertising and selling a level 2 system as “full self driving” is about as misleading and dishonest as you can get.  
 

Are we surprised Tesla does this?  No, no we are not. 

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On 3/10/2021 at 10:53 AM, FR739 said:

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/03/09/tesla-full-self-driving-level-2-sae/

 

Ok so not directly but purposely advertising and selling a level 2 system as “full self driving” is about as misleading and dishonest as you can get.  
 

Are we surprised Tesla does this?  No, no we are not. 

There is plenty of misleading information and dishonesty among ALL AUTOMAKERS-Ford included.  Ford is advertising the Bronco Sport as a true off roader-BUT-


https://jalopnik.com/multiple-ford-bronco-sports-overheated-off-road-lets-t-1846450499

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18 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

There is plenty of misleading information and dishonesty among ALL AUTOMAKERS-Ford included.  Ford is advertising the Bronco Sport as a true off roader-BUT-


https://jalopnik.com/multiple-ford-bronco-sports-overheated-off-road-lets-t-1846450499

 

So a system that goes into limp mode to protect itself at the same level as saying a car is self driving and has killed its drivers?

 

Ok.....

 

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20 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

There is plenty of misleading information and dishonesty among ALL AUTOMAKERS-Ford included.

 

Yes sir CKNSLS. It's still disappointing that Tesla has adopted some bad habits of Ford and other incumbent automakers when it comes to misleading customers.

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On 3/14/2021 at 8:00 PM, CKNSLS said:

There is plenty of misleading information and dishonesty among ALL AUTOMAKERS-Ford included.  Ford is advertising the Bronco Sport as a true off roader-BUT-


https://jalopnik.com/multiple-ford-bronco-sports-overheated-off-road-lets-t-1846450499

 

Tesla can't even keep the bumpers and windows on the car in normal driving and that's one thing Ford and other automakers don't have a problem with. The bronco sport has never been marketed as a TRUE off reader (look at the promo videos) but Tesla has said they sell full self driving, which they don't. This should not be a point the finger moment because even none car people believe that if they get a Tesla they can be driven without any input, hence the many people who died from sleeping while "Autopilot" was on.

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On 3/14/2021 at 7:00 PM, CKNSLS said:

There is plenty of misleading information and dishonesty among ALL AUTOMAKERS-Ford included.  Ford is advertising the Bronco Sport as a true off roader-BUT-


https://jalopnik.com/multiple-ford-bronco-sports-overheated-off-road-lets-t-1846450499


Oh without a doubt.  But there is a difference in calling something “full self driving” that most certainly is not and a poorly engineered PTU.  

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6 minutes ago, FR739 said:

But there is a difference in calling something “full self driving” that most certainly is not and a poorly engineered PTU.  

 

Yes sir FR739, I agree with you there is a difference. The difference is in degree not in concept though. Both examples involve misleading information and dishonesty as CKNSLS mentioned. This is why the automotive industry is regulated heavily. Consumers and government officials very correctly don't trust the industry to police itself.

 

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41 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

The difference is in degree not in concept though. 


Very well put. I fully agree. 

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But, BUT! It is named Autopilot, so it's got to be something that drives itself, right?

 

"A Tesla vehicle that struck a tree near Houston on Saturday, killing two passengers, did not appear to have anyone in the driver's seat at the time of the crash..."

------------------

TheHill: No one driving Tesla before Texas crash that killed two, authorities say.
https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/548947-no-one-driving-tesla-before-texas-crash-that-killed-two-authorities-say

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On 4/19/2021 at 11:25 AM, Gurgeh said:

But, BUT! It is named Autopilot, so it's got to be something that drives itself, right?

 

"A Tesla vehicle that struck a tree near Houston on Saturday, killing two passengers, did not appear to have anyone in the driver's seat at the time of the crash..."

------------------

TheHill: No one driving Tesla before Texas crash that killed two, authorities say.
https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/548947-no-one-driving-tesla-before-texas-crash-that-killed-two-authorities-say

 

The Autopilot and Full Self Driving names that Tesla uses in its promotions are false and misleading as mentioned earlier in this thread. But the incident near Houston mentioned in The Hill link did not involve Autopilot or FSD. 

 

 

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It also doesn’t make sense that it left the road or that it was driving fast.  I think there was a driver that fled the scene.

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I know that a lot of you dislike Tesla, but come on. There has to be some point where the occupant(s) have to bear some responsibility for the accident, regardless of what the system is called.

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Some, yes.  But you can’t call something “auto pilot”, market it as an autonomous system, make money off of it and use it to promote your business as being better than the competition and then shirk responsibility when it doesn’t work.  And again I’m not sure that it failed in this particular case.

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46 minutes ago, akirby said:

Some, yes.  But you can’t call something “auto pilot”, market it as an autonomous system, make money off of it and use it to promote your business as being better than the competition and then shirk responsibility when it doesn’t work.  And again I’m not sure that it failed in this particular case.

When I test drove the Model S, they absolutely were advertising the system as a self driving car. I refused to let them turn it on during my drive and they were shocked at my level of distrust with this technology.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

Some, yes.  But you can’t call something “auto pilot”, market it as an autonomous system, make money off of it and use it to promote your business as being better than the competition and then shirk responsibility when it doesn’t work.  And again I’m not sure that it failed in this particular case.

 

Tesla does have a disclaimer on its website regarding FSD.

 

"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

 

But as atomcat68 mentioned, some Tesla sales and promotions people imply that FSD cars are autonomous. And the feature names "Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving" also suggest that. Very misleading and irresponsible.

 

Neither Autopilot nor FSD failed in the Model S that crashed into a tree in Spring, Texas. Autopilot was turned off, and that particular Model S wasn't equipped with FSD.

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11 hours ago, akirby said:

Some, yes.  But you can’t call something “auto pilot”, market it as an autonomous system, make money off of it and use it to promote your business as being better than the competition and then shirk responsibility when it doesn’t work.  And again I’m not sure that it failed in this particular case.

 

Ah, but you can! As long as there's that disclaimer. With apologies to Douglas Adams:

 

Tesla: But the disclaimers have been available in the local planning office!
Owner: Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them had you? I mean like actually telling anybody or anything.
Tesla: But the disclaimers were on display…
Owner: On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.
Tesla: That’s the display department.
Owner: With a torch.
Tesla: The lights had probably gone out.
Owner: So had the stairs.
Tesla: But look, you found the disclaimers, didn’t you?
Owner: Yes yes I did. They were on display at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard.
Edited by Gurgeh

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On 4/21/2021 at 8:10 AM, Gurgeh said:

As long as there's that disclaimer

 

Despite Tesla's disclaimer, California DMV started an official review of whether Tesla violated their regulations "that prohibit misleading advertising concerning automated vehicles." DMV investigating Tesla's self-driving claims - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

"If the DMV finds Tesla is misleading customers, potential penalties include suspension or revocation of DMV autonomous vehicle deployment permits and manufacture and dealer licenses, the DMV spokesperson said. She added that “a vehicle operating on public roads using autonomous technology without first obtaining a permit can be removed from the public roadway by a police officer.”

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I have a Tesla without self-driving and for the life of me, I don't know why people want it.  The fun part is actually driving it. The fit and finish leave a lot to be desired.

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14 hours ago, mpd510 said:

I have a Tesla without self-driving and for the life of me, I don't know why people want it.  The fun part is actually driving it. The fit and finish leave a lot to be desired.

Even Teslas with self-driving aren't self-driving. Many owners are confused thinking "Autopilot" means they can actually put their cars on autopilot. Hence, the crashes.

Edited by Gurgeh

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14 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

Even Teslas with self-driving aren't self-driving. Many owners are confused thinking "Autopilot" means they can actually put their cars on autopilot. Hence, the crashes.

indeed.  The new Self-driving update coming soon for city streets seems to be more Autopilot and it may be the future but has a long way to go. I do have to admit the lane-keeping is great when on the highway but again just driving is part of the fun factor.  I have no interest in self-driving.  it is a blast to driving around town on country roads.  It's my wife's car and she's kind of a tree hugger but I'll keep my 17 Raptor until the new Raptorgets here and we have an expedition to haul the rugrats around in. 

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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

Even Teslas with self-driving aren't self-driving. Many owners are confused thinking "Autopilot" means they can actually put their cars on autopilot. Hence, the crashes.


They're confused because that’s exactly how Tesla markets it,

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https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/cars/tesla-fsd-legal/index.html

How Tesla can sell 'full self-driving' software that doesn't really drive itself

 

"Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said the company will roll out the latest beta version of its 'full self-driving' software to 1,000 owners this weekend.

 

"Yet there aren't actually any self-driving cars for sale today, according to autonomous vehicle experts and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which regulates cars. Tesla's 'full self-driving' is more like an enhanced cruise control, they say.

 

"Videos posted on the internet by people who already have the feature unlocked show that it might stop for traffic lights and turn smoothly at intersections, but it also might veer toward pedestrians or confuse the moon for a traffic signal...

 

"A person buying a Tesla vehicle on its website sees the technology described in big, bold letters as 'full self-driving,' but the fine print below that says the technology is a driver-assist technology. Driver-assist technologies are intended to help a human drive more safely, with features such as forward collision warning, blind spot warning and lane departure warning systems...

 

"NHTSA launched an investigation this summer into Teslas rear-ending emergency vehicles while using Autopilot. [President of the Advocates for Auto and Highway Safety, Cathy] Chase said she's concerned that the Tesla technology may play a role in other types of crashes we aren't yet aware of.

 

"Autonomous driving experts have long cautioned that Tesla's description of 'full self-driving,' and its more rudimentary predecessor, Autopilot, may lead to drivers putting too much trust in the technology. Tesla drivers have already died in high-profile crashes using Autopilot, drawing rebukes from the National Transportation Safety Board..."

 

 

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