bzcat Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1131686_ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-on-track-for-2021-release Battery catching on fire issue is resolved. But microchip shortage means production status uncertain. These are factors beyond Ford's control but it is a really troubled launch for what was supposed to be a key model. Last fall, Ford delayed first U.S. deliveries of the Escape Plug-In Hybrid to this year, partly due to the European recall of the Ford Kuga Plug-In Hybrid over battery-safety concerns. Although it’s not yet clear if the Escape Plug-In Hybrid will actually arrive for the 2021 model year, it’s due later this calendar year. And the present delay, Ford confirmed, isn’t due to the battery issue. Ford spokesperson Mike Levine tied the issue to the automaker’s ongoing microchip-related production delays with the following company statement: “The global semiconductor shortage is presenting challenges and production disruptions for the global auto industry, including Ford. We plan to start Escape PHEV production later this year but will share more details later as we prioritize key vehicles for production, making the most of our semiconductor supply allocations.” Edited March 24, 2021 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 And in related news, Corsair Grand Touring is here... maybe, sort of, no one knows. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1131666_lincoln-corsair-grand-touring-plug-in-hybrid-rated-at-28-electric-miles-33-mpg Although the moment for plug-in hybrids is right now—before many more EVs arrive—the Corsair PHEV has hardly been speeding out of the gate. At its November 2019 LA auto show reveal, Lincoln said it would be due for deliveries in summer 2020. As the launch approached, Lincoln moved the arrival date toward the end of 2020, and then last summer pushed it to 2021, as Ford reportedly examined a potential issue with vehicle fires in non-U.S.-market models. Lincoln confirmed to Green Car Reports that the Corsair Grand Touring is due to go on sale later this spring. As of yet, it's not featured on Lincoln's consumer website, and it cannot yet be ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Corsair hybrid mode 33 mpg? That ain't right. Escape hybrid is something like 41/38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKC4ME Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 I considered acquiring a Corsair PHEV to replace my 2017 MKC this spring but my dealer said not to expect availability until 2022. As it is, I have to wait 12+ weeks for a 2021 Corsair and they have none left in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valve Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, 92merc said: Corsair hybrid mode 33 mpg? That ain't right. Escape hybrid is something like 41/38. The escape PHEV is FWD only where the Corsair is AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, 92merc said: Corsair hybrid mode 33 mpg? That ain't right. Escape hybrid is something like 41/38. You can't compare them like that because the programming and functionality is fundamentally different. Just like you can't compare gas-only mode MPG on hybrids (usually terrible) with normal ICE cars. Regular hybrid generally uses the battery/electric motor more in regular driving thant PHEV in hybrid mode which uses the ICE more. PHEV generally uses battery/electric motors exclusively pretty much until it runs low so by the time it switches to hybrid mode, the engine runs a lot more than electric motor as compare to regular hybrid. In another word, you are trading some hybrid mode MPG for all electric MPGe. PHEV is still overall much more efficient. Edited March 24, 2021 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, valve said: The escape PHEV is FWD only where the Corsair is AWD. And it’s heavier due to more luxury features along with the PHEV batteries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, akirby said: And it’s heavier due to more luxury features along with the PHEV batteries. That's also true. The graphic from the article says it all... Corsair MPG in hybrid mode is actually pretty good compare to BMW for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, valve said: The escape PHEV is FWD only where the Corsair is AWD. 20 minutes ago, akirby said: And it’s heavier due to more luxury features along with the PHEV batteries. The Escape PHEV doesn't have batteries? HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 46 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: The Escape PHEV doesn't have batteries? 92merc asked about the Corsair GT in hybrid mode vs an Escape hybrid not an Escape PHEV. A PHEV has a lot more batteries than a regular hybrid. 1 hour ago, 92merc said: Corsair hybrid mode 33 mpg? That ain't right. Escape hybrid is something like 41/38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Interesting. Like the Corsair PHEV. Electric AWD a good choice in this segment. Hope the 2.5 L is more refined than the earlier iteration in 2009-12 Escape HEV. Had an '09 and it was good. Compared to a friend's Lexus RX450h, it does not compare. I know, not a PHEV, but at this rate there will be an RX450h+ that is PHEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 4 hours ago, bzcat said: That's also true. The graphic from the article says it all... Corsair MPG in hybrid mode is actually pretty good compare to BMW for example. Interesting that all the competitors you listed are 2.0L turbos. They should have a performance edge in hybrid mode. I wonder if Ford should have gone for a more powerful 2.0 ecoboost. Could the ecvt support the power output? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, slemke said: Interesting that all the competitors you listed are 2.0L turbos. They should have a performance edge in hybrid mode. I wonder if Ford should have gone for a more powerful 2.0 ecoboost. Could the ecvt support the power output? But look at the huge advantage for Corsair in EV range and mpg. I think they just went for max mpg and range and cut costs by sharing the Escape engine and ecvt. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a performance version at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Maybe a version with the 2.0 EB Powerboost? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: Maybe a version with the 2.0 EB Powerboost? Why not go 2.3EB PHEV like the Aviator GT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 10 hours ago, akirby said: I think they just went for max mpg and range and cut costs by sharing the Escape engine and ecvt. Smart decision by Ford. Corsair Grand Touring & Escape/Kuga PHEV powertrain is one of the better engine and transmission combinations Ford offers. Smooth, efficient, and peppy even though certain performance numbers are worse than PHEV from competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 If I were to get a Corsair GT, my intention wasn't to plug it in. Just run it like a regular hybrid. Which is why I was comparing the Escape AWD hybrid to the Corsair GT. I figured it would give up 1 or 2 MPG because of weight and different electric motor configuration. But not 40 vs 33. That's basically my point right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, 92merc said: If I were to get a Corsair GT, my intention wasn't to plug it in. Just run it like a regular hybrid. Which is why I was comparing the Escape AWD hybrid to the Corsair GT. I figured it would give up 1 or 2 MPG because of weight and different electric motor configuration. But not 40 vs 33. That's basically my point right there. The 33 mpg is using the gas engine alone from my reading of the EPA chart. If you run just like a regular hybrid (which I believe is one of the drive modes) your MPG should be significantly better. The cost to drive 25 miles (driving on gas only) they list also works out to 33 mpg. I think in the long run, the PHEV will actually return better overall fuel economy even if you don't plug in because the engine will recharge the battery as you drive, especially while cruising on the highway. It would be even better if you plugged into a 120v outlet from time to time and add a few miles of range to the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Flying68 said: The 33 mpg is using the gas engine alone from my reading of the EPA chart. If you run just like a regular hybrid (which I believe is one of the drive modes) your MPG should be significantly better. The cost to drive 25 miles (driving on gas only) they list also works out to 33 mpg. I think in the long run, the PHEV will actually return better overall fuel economy even if you don't plug in because the engine will recharge the battery as you drive, especially while cruising on the highway. It would be even better if you plugged into a 120v outlet from time to time and add a few miles of range to the battery. Yeah, that's a weird way for FuelEconomy.gov to list them. You can't do a decent comparison of a HEV and PHEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, 92merc said: Yeah, that's a weird way for FuelEconomy.gov to list them. You can't do a decent comparison of a HEV and PHEV. The spreadsheets in the downloads section of fueleconomy.gov have more detailed info on CS mode versus CD mode testing, including city, highway, and combined. Examples for Lincoln Corsair Grand Touring. CD Mode. City, 83 MPGe Highway, 72 MPGe Combined, 78 MPGe CS Mode. City, 34 MPG Highway, 32 MPG Combined, 33 MPG https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/21data.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 14 hours ago, akirby said: Why not go 2.3EB PHEV like the Aviator GT? Because the aviator gt is a 3.0l PHEV. Or do you mean use the top engine and go from there? If there is a way to get the power to the ground, sure go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 11:50 PM, akirby said: But look at the huge advantage for Corsair in EV range and mpg. I think they just went for max mpg and range and cut costs by sharing the Escape engine and ecvt. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a performance version at some point. Sure, it gives good numbers for mpg and range. Is that what buyers want, though? Channeling my inner Bob Lutz, I’d say they want more power. With the competition listed, they all use a significantly more powerful 2.0l turbo. If I were to make the Corsair stand out, I would use the 2.3l ecoboost, provided Ford can find a transmission that can deliver the power to the wheels. Going rwd on the Aviator and Explorer makes stuffing in a powerful drivetrain much easier and doesn’t require awd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 41 minutes ago, slemke said: Because the aviator gt is a 3.0l PHEV. Or do you mean use the top engine and go from there? If there is a way to get the power to the ground, sure go for it. I meant go for max performance rather than fuel economy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 34 minutes ago, slemke said: Sure, it gives good numbers for mpg and range. Is that what buyers want, though? Channeling my inner Bob Lutz, I’d say they want more power. With the competition listed, they all use a significantly more powerful 2.0l turbo. If I were to make the Corsair stand out, I would use the 2.3l ecoboost, provided Ford can find a transmission that can deliver the power to the wheels. Going rwd on the Aviator and Explorer makes stuffing in a powerful drivetrain much easier and doesn’t require awd. I didn’t mean to imply that’s what buyers want. Just pointing out there is a benefit to using the lower power engine. Im guessing it was more about cost savings by using the Escape power train than max mpg. But I’m sure a lot of buyers would appreciate the fuel economy IF it’s not underpowered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Interesting points of view here. Talk to Prius owners and all they talk about is fuel economy. (Yes, for most of us, a boring evening) To Mustang GT owners, about speed, performance mods and never fuel economy. Tesla owners, performance, charging speed, and range. Plug in hybrid owners, I know so few, what does interest them? C MAX PHEV and Aviator GT very different customers. Suspect Corsair GT would be closer to Aviator GT. Of course there needs to be a price point that attracts the buyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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