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2021 Escape PHEV back on track, maybe, sort of, no one knows


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I currently have a 2.0 EB Escape.  I've driven a 1.5EB Escape.  Looking online, the new Escape 1.5EB and Escape hybrid have basically the same 0-60 times. 

 

For me, I'm looking for a hybrid that will get the same mpg (or better) with the same power as the Escape Hybrid.  While I like my 2.0 EB power, I'm willing to sacrifice a bit to get better MPG.  I'm not willing to drop down on MPG too much below the Escape Hybrid.  To ME, I might as well get a Corsair 2.3EB then.  If I can't have good MPG's, I'd rather have the snort.  Or just get a loaded Escape Hybrid.

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Corsair PHEV using the same drivetrain as Escape PHEV is assuredly a cost containment decision. I'm sure Lincoln would rather have a 2.0 EB PHEV but volume will be so low as to make that investment too difficult to justify. Unless there is another higher volume Ford that can share that drvietrain combo... like Edge but we know that's not going to happen.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 92merc said:

I currently have a 2.0 EB Escape.  I've driven a 1.5EB Escape.  Looking online, the new Escape 1.5EB and Escape hybrid have basically the same 0-60 times. 

 

For me, I'm looking for a hybrid that will get the same mpg (or better) with the same power as the Escape Hybrid.  While I like my 2.0 EB power, I'm willing to sacrifice a bit to get better MPG.  I'm not willing to drop down on MPG too much below the Escape Hybrid.  To ME, I might as well get a Corsair 2.3EB then.  If I can't have good MPG's, I'd rather have the snort.  Or just get a loaded Escape Hybrid.

 

After 5,000 miles, we are averaging 46.5 mpg. On last longer trip over 40 miles on 55mph US highway, we averaged about 60mpg in our hybrid Escape. Hard to beat. Only time mpg suffers is in long lines in Drive thrus.

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3 hours ago, 92merc said:

Looking online, the new Escape 1.5EB and Escape hybrid have basically the same 0-60 times. 

 

Consumer Reports actually got significantly faster 0-60 and quarter mile times for their 2020 Escape Hybrid SE Sport Hybrid AWD compared to the 2020 Escape SE 1.5L AWD. Unlike some other professional auto testers, CR doesn't use rollout in its acceleration tests.

 

Escape SE Sport Hybrid AWD (regular hybrid, not PHEV)

  • 0-60 mph, 8.3 seconds
  • Quarter mile, 16.5 seconds @ 90 mph
Escape SE 1.5L AWD
  • 0-60 mph, 8.9 seconds
  • Quarter mile, 16.9 seconds @ 85 mph
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.6 seconds is "basically" the same time to me.  If I can fart longer than that, it's not even rounding error.

 

BZCat, just a note.  From what I read, the Corsair will have an electric motor out back.  No drive shaft from front trans.  So to me, it's not sharing a drive train.  No, not a huge difference.  But a difference.

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7 minutes ago, 92merc said:

.6 seconds is "basically" the same time to me. 

 

I respect that 92merc sir. In that case, you'll find that the qualitative difference between Ford Escape with hybrid powertrain and with 1.5L gasoline engine is huge. The hybrid is much smoother and quieter, and it feels more responsive too.

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55 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Consumer Reports actually got significantly faster 0-60 and quarter mile times for their 2020 Escape Hybrid SE Sport Hybrid AWD compared to the 2020 Escape SE 1.5L AWD. Unlike some other professional auto testers, CR doesn't use rollout in its acceleration tests.

 

Escape SE Sport Hybrid AWD (regular hybrid, not PHEV)

  • 0-60 mph, 8.3 seconds
  • Quarter mile, 16.5 seconds @ 90 mph
Escape SE 1.5L AWD
  • 0-60 mph, 8.9 seconds
  • Quarter mile, 16.9 seconds @ 85 mph

 

I've driven the 1.5 AWD and 8.9s seems slow to me. It definitely felt much faster than that and other reviewers seem to agree. For example Car and Driver recorded 7.7s.

 

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1 hour ago, valve said:

I've driven the 1.5 AWD and 8.9s seems slow to me. It definitely felt much faster than that and other reviewers seem to agree. For example Car and Driver recorded 7.7s.

 

Thanks for that data valve sir. Interesting that Car and Driver also recorded 7.7s for the Escape Hybrid SE Sport Hybrid they tested in the comparison with RAV4 Hybrid. Car and Driver's 0-60 acceleration test has a 1 ft rollout of 0.4 seconds, so the "true" 0-60 number is 8.1s. 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid (caranddriver.com)

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

After 5,000 miles, we are averaging 46.5 mpg. On last longer trip over 40 miles on 55mph US highway, we averaged about 60mpg in our hybrid Escape. Hard to beat. Only time mpg suffers is in long lines in Drive thrus.

Thanks for the information on real world mpg. Our '09 Escape averaged 32 mpg overall except for extreme cold temperatures. Highway mileage would be reduced when driving with a lead foot. Sounds as if either HEV or PHEV should be a nice alternate to BEV for those of us who still have "range anxiety". 

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3 hours ago, 92merc said:

BZCat, just a note.  From what I read, the Corsair will have an electric motor out back.  No drive shaft from front trans.  So to me, it's not sharing a drive train.  No, not a huge difference.  But a difference.


But it is using the same engine, eCVT, front motor and batteries.

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Escape and Corsair PHEV should provide a more practical, if somewhat less exciting alternate to the Mustang Mach E. How many will come to look at the Mach E realize 270 mile range isn't going to cut it for transport to grandma's or the beach house? Pivot them to the PHEV and they still feel good about the environment, but lose cred with greenies. 

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16 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Escape and Corsair PHEV should provide a more practical, if somewhat less exciting alternate to the Mustang Mach E. How many will come to look at the Mach E realize 270 mile range isn't going to cut it for transport to grandma's or the beach house? Pivot them to the PHEV and they still feel good about the environment, but lose cred with greenies. 

Also need to factor in the daily commute.  Escape PHEV is lower cost, and if the 30 mile electric range is enough for daily driving, it becomes very attractive.  Sure, it doesn’t have the full ev cred, but from a practical standpoint, it is a clear winner if your daily commute is < 30 miles and you still need a vehicle for those 300+ mile day trips.

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2 hours ago, slemke said:

Also need to factor in the daily commute.  Escape PHEV is lower cost, and if the 30 mile electric range is enough for daily driving, it becomes very attractive.  Sure, it doesn’t have the full ev cred, but from a practical standpoint, it is a clear winner if your daily commute is < 30 miles and you still need a vehicle for those 300+ mile day trips.

My travel modes would include a great deal of those ~ 30 mile days. Would have covered my commute and now retired, doing the honey-do run. Long trips include several 600+ mile days. My refueling style in younger days was likened to a NASCAR "splash and go". Nowadays, I have to make a splash and get a splash. Still not more than 15 minutes. Accounts of cross country electric trips read like a journal of old "horseless carriage" days of auto travel. 

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15 hours ago, paintguy said:

How many will come to look at the Mach E realize 270 mile range isn't going to cut it for transport to grandma's or the beach house? 

 

Not many. While Ford could play a more active role in expanding DC Fast Charging options for its BEV customers, Mustang Mach-E's range is adequate for both commuting and non-commuting driving scenarios. My wife and I have some road trips planned for the summer after we take delivery of our Mustang Mach-E First Edition. We mapped out primary and alternate routes that take advantage of both Level 2 and DC Fast Charging stations along the routes according to the FordPass app.

 

Escape and Kuga PHEV, and Corsair Grand Touring, are regulatory compliance products more than anything else. They are not competitors to Mustang Mach-E, nor are they viable alternatives to a true BEV from any manufacturer.

Edited by rperez817
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14 hours ago, slemke said:

Also need to factor in the daily commute.  Escape PHEV is lower cost, and if the 30 mile electric range is enough for daily driving, it becomes very attractive.  Sure, it doesn’t have the full ev cred, but from a practical standpoint, it is a clear winner if your daily commute is < 30 miles and you still need a vehicle for those 300+ mile day trips.

 

And it's much easier to gas up than charge up. And in either hybrid, you don't have to gas up very often. 

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6 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Not many. While Ford could play a more active role in expanding DC Fast Charging options for its BEV customers, Mustang Mach-E's range is adequate for both commuting and non-commuting driving scenarios. My wife and I have some road trips planned for the summer after we take delivery of our Mustang Mach-E First Edition. We mapped out primary and alternate routes that take advantage of both Level 2 and DC Fast Charging stations along the routes according to the FordPass app.

 

Escape and Kuga PHEV, and Corsair Grand Touring, are regulatory compliance products more than anything else. They are not competitors to Mustang Mach-E, nor are they viable alternatives to a true BEV from any manufacturer.

Not sure I agree, but please post when you make your trips. I would like to see Mach E be a big success. Early reports of "fast charge" for Ford have been mixed. Really, Tesla is the only I see with positive recharge experiences, mostly by owners who are Tesla fanboys. Motor press, who seem to treat any vehicle with benign neglect, have less positive experience. Of course, recharging stations will get better with time. 

 

So with a 300 mile range and practical (by electric car standards) 20% lower limit, 1st leg is 240 miles. Practical fast recharge is 80%, so each subsequent leg is 180 miles, until you stop for an extended charge, perhaps an overnight. 

 

Personally think there is room for both BEV and PHEV. The real "compliance" (think teenager cleaning a room) vehicle was the electric Focus with ~100 mile range.

 

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12 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Personally think there is room for both BEV and PHEV. The real "compliance" (think teenager cleaning a room) vehicle was the electric Focus with ~100 mile range.

 

Ford Focus Electric range was only about 65 miles. We were lucky to sell one a year and none were happy customers because it was virtually impossible to go that far because of various factors... weather, temperature, air conditioning, driving conditions, etc.  

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23 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Not sure I agree, but please post when you make your trips.

 

Yes sir paintguy, will do.

 

I have used EA and ChargePoint stations with my Model S. Some worked well right away, some required some finagling of the connector/adapter before they started charging, and one EA unit failed to charge the vehicle at all. By contrast the Tesla superchargers I've used in Fort Worth, Alvarado, Waco, and Oklahoma City all worked fine the first time.

Edited by rperez817
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56 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir paintguy, will do.

 

I have used EA and ChargePoint stations with my Model S. Some worked well right away, some required some finagling of the connector/adapter before they started charging, and one EA unit failed to charge the vehicle at all. By contrast the Tesla superchargers I've used in Fort Worth, Alvarado, Waco, and Oklahoma City all worked fine the first time.

 

Maybe I'm all wrong, but it seems BEV works best if you live in warm climate, own a single family dwelling with garage, do mostly shorter commutes, and live in an urban, metro area. Not so good if you live in cold climate, rural, and dwelling without garage. Therefore, long term I put my bet on hydogen fuel cell with BEV getting us there. Toyota and the Koreans are all in it seems.

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Not many. While Ford could play a more active role in expanding DC Fast Charging options for its BEV customers, Mustang Mach-E's range is adequate for both commuting and non-commuting driving scenarios. My wife and I have some road trips planned for the summer after we take delivery of our Mustang Mach-E First Edition. We mapped out primary and alternate routes that take advantage of both Level 2 and DC Fast Charging stations along the routes according to the FordPass app.

 

Escape and Kuga PHEV, and Corsair Grand Touring, are regulatory compliance products more than anything else. They are not competitors to Mustang Mach-E, nor are they viable alternatives to a true BEV from any manufacturer.

 

Lol, so because you don't like it's purpose, it's regulatory compliance?

 

Not everyone wants a full BEV.

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25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The issue with hydrogen is it takes more power to make it then it generates. 

 

Both CA and Toyota are betting on it. CA can't depend upon its bankrupt electric utility company to get them where they want yo be long term. Good documentary featuring CA and Toyota on hydrogen fuel cell power. Many commercial trucks use hydrogen power already, especially in CA.

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3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Ford Focus Electric range was only about 65 miles. We were lucky to sell one a year and none were happy customers because it was virtually impossible to go that far because of various factors... weather, temperature, air conditioning, driving conditions, etc.  

Nissan leased plenty of leafs.  Part of Ford’s problem was not wrapping them in enough ?.  Since it was a compliance vehicle no sense in selling any more than needed to meet the requirement and losing more money on it.

 

In the RTP, NC area, leafs were quite popular until replaced by Tesla’s.  Tesla is more of a statement vehicle than anything else.  Around here, the model 3 has replaced the BMW 3 series.  I still see some leafs around, but not many.  I did spot one Mach e over at the country club.

 

Mild climate, reasonably short commutes, “green perks” like close parking and free charging at work, and high incomes lead to the adoption rate.

 

Where is your dealership located?  Is it more rural customers that require a longer range?  What did the charging infrastructure look like when you were trying to sell them.
 

 

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Maybe I'm all wrong, but it seems BEV works best if you live in warm climate, own a single family dwelling with garage, do mostly shorter commutes, and live in an urban, metro area. Not so good if you live in cold climate, rural, and dwelling without garage. Therefore, long term I put my bet on hydogen fuel cell with BEV getting us there. Toyota and the Koreans are all in it seems.

I've been fascinated by fuel cell technology since use in the space program in the '60s. Always hoped a cost effective method for fuel cell catalyst would be developed, analogous to catalytic converter for ICE. Having done some work in the chemical industry, worked with hydrogen. Cryogenic and high pressure storage are not easy and novel storage always seems 5 years off. My other memory is the high cost of hydrogen. Green hydrogen is currently 3X fossil hydrogen. These differences do matter. Ask anyone who heats their home with LPG or electric versus natural gas. 

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