Sean J. Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Hey All, Can anyone on here with the confirmed inside knowledge let me know why it is certain Ford product lines have transitioned to full LED lighting (especially on the exterior) while others are still utilizing incandescent turn signals, license plate bulbs, etc? I get that cost could play a role but is that it? Why does my Edge ST get full LED but my Explorer Limited/ST/Platinum does not? Thanks! TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 You're not the only one wondering that. Along the same lines, I wonder why the more expensive Expedition gets all incandescent lightning standard, whereas Explorer gets LED headlights and taillights (though with the incandescent turn/reverse lights as you point out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean J. Posted May 7, 2021 Author Share Posted May 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, rmc523 said: You're not the only one wondering that. Along the same lines, I wonder why the more expensive Expedition gets all incandescent lightning standard, whereas Explorer gets LED headlights and taillights (though with the incandescent turn/reverse lights as you point out). Exactly! The Expedition is another one that bugs the hell out of me. I hate seeing a Limited Expedition driving around with those smaller rims and incandescent lights! It's nuts! TT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) It's all about the $$$! Not just the initial cost... the replacement costs are outrageous. Edited May 7, 2021 by ice-capades 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 CAFE has to do with it too, you get fuel economy credits for LED Headlight, Running and Brake lights but not turn. So turn become an added cost, so some manufactures (GM/Stellantis being the biggest) just use the same brake/turn bulb (which is ugly and unsafe). They can save $10-$30/vehicle and both don't really care about safety of their vehicles so they are okay with it. Ford has gotten better at using amber rear turn signals so they get the safety credits and well as just putting them on higher trim lines, so they can save money there. What's weird is that the fleet heavy XL F-150 has incandescent bulbs with amber turn signals, the XLT is all red with incandescent bulbs, and the Lariat+ all have Full LED with amber rear. (Raptor prototypes however have been LED with red turn signals) Fleet customers prefer incandescent as if there is a failure it is $5 to fix, where LED's should last the life of the vehicle however if they do fail its $500-$1000 for the full assembly. The Mountaineer at one point had LED bulbs, which were user replaceable but Ford moved away from that for some reason. Seems that would be the best option for heavy fleet vehicles. The Expedition lighting sucks, has some ugly taillights. Ford in general has gotten better the Mach-E taillights are amazing, but the base Bronco lost the incandescent amber turn signal (early prototypes had them) where the LED taillights look very nice. Only thing on the Bronco family lighting was the front LED's should mimic the MACH-E and the LED's illuminate individually outward. Ford has gotten better but that's an easy place to cut and Ford is ALWAYS looking to cut costs out of their vehicles. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 How often do they need to be replaced? Maybe I just don’t drive enough at night, but I’ve only replaced a handful of bulbs in 30 years. I would expect very few LEDs would need to be replaced....which may lead to higher cost just to keep something in stock that may never be sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 FYI... My comment regarding OEM or replacement costs was in reference to LED headlamp or taillight assemblies, not bulbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, ice-capades said: FYI... My comment regarding OEM or replacement costs was in reference to LED headlamp or taillight assemblies, not bulbs. I assumed, The Mountaineer you could replace an LED bulb, everything thing else in Ford's stable you're replacing the whole assembly. It why if you get an ESP extended warranty spend the extra $100 and get the lamp/bulb protection. The Adaptive LED headlamps on the Edge are over $2,000 EACH for the full assembly and inners. No wonder why vehicles get totaled out in relatively minor accidents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 We had the replace the tail lamp in our 2010 Milan. I pulled it out expecting to replace a bulb. Nope, $150+ for a USED rear taillight assembly off eBay. New was $350! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: We had the replace the tail lamp in our 2010 Milan. I pulled it out expecting to replace a bulb. Nope, $150+ for a USED rear taillight assembly off eBay. New was $350! The Milan/MKZ of that generation seem to have a high failure rate. I actually see a lot of them that are out/or have the brake light stuck on (only on one side - but it is usually the left) Edited May 7, 2021 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, jasonj80 said: The Mountaineer at one point had LED bulbs, which were user replaceable but Ford moved away from that for some reason. Seems that would be the best option for heavy fleet vehicles. Yes sir jasonj80. '06-'10 Mountaineer used Osram Joule LED taillamp/brakelamp/turn signal modules. These modules integrated the LED capsule, connector, and heatsink. '08-'09 Sable, '08-'09 Taurus X, and '10-'12 Mustang also used Osram Joule modules for taillamps. Joule system isn't shown on the Osram Automotive website currently, I wonder if the technology has been discontinued? Edited May 7, 2021 by rperez817 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 hours ago, jasonj80 said: The Milan/MKZ of that generation seem to have a high failure rate. I actually see a lot of them that are out/or have the brake light stuck on (only on one side - but it is usually the left) Ours failed on the passenger side. Strangely enough, the first replacement I bought off eBay was a failure too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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