All Electric Ford F-150 Lightning to be revealed on May 19 at 930 pm ET

[92merc]

Just watched a video over lunch.  Sandy Munro from his Munro Live YouTube channel had a favorable approval.  He hasn't seen it in the flesh.  But he took a look at the press kit.  He said he will be buying one of these for a total tear-down.

[tzach]

3 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Plus charging stations as common as gas stations.

 

I don't thin this is necessary at all.  Most driving is back and forth to home, where the vehicle can be charged.  On routes like highways where people are taking long trips yes but in general no.  There are about five to eight gas stations within five minutes of my house in the suburbs.  There are virtually no long distance travelers driving around most small and medium size towns and there is no need for electric at all of these locations even if 100% of the fleet was electric.

[blazerdude20]

8 minutes ago, tzach said:

 

I don't thin this is necessary at all.  Most driving is back and forth to home, where the vehicle can be charged.  On routes like highways where people are taking long trips yes but in general no.  There are about five to eight gas stations within five minutes of my house in the suburbs.  There are virtually no long distance travelers driving around most small and medium size towns and there is no need for electric at all of these locations even if 100% of the fleet was electric.

Agreed. At least not quite the saturation of dedicated charging stations, like gas stations. I think you will see many parking lots designed in shopping centers and restaurants to have charging bays. If you’re in the store for 30 minutes anyhow, you might as well charge up. Provides an additional revenue stream for property owners in addition to convenience for customers. 

[bzcat]

Fun fact... there is already more public charging stations within 2 miles of my house than there are gas station. 

 

I agree that widespread public charging won't be necessary for wider EV adoption. It's one of those nice to have options but not necessary. The notion that somehow we need to add a lot of public charging is tied to range anxiety which is fundamentally an issue with lack of direct experience. If you talk to EV owners, you will find that vast majority of them never use public chargers. 

 

The other thing that you see being talked about incessantly in any EV topic is the notion that existing range is inadequate so the vehicle (and EV at large) cannot replace ICE vehicles. But why only focus on the edge use case on ICE vehicles and use that to disqualify EV? Why don't edge use case obsessives ever think about all the edge use case for EV that ICE vehicles cannot do? For example, which ICE car can power your house for 4 days like Lightning? OMG, how can anyone buy a car that doesn't do that when you know about once every decade you may have a 2 day blackout? 

 

 

[rperez817]

5 minutes ago, bzcat said:

I agree that widespread public charging won't be necessary for wider EV adoption. It's one of those nice to have options but not necessary. The notion that somehow we need to add a lot of public charging is tied to range anxiety which is fundamentally an issue with lack of direct experience. If you talk to EV owners, you will find that vast majority of them never use public chargers. 

 

Thank you bzcat sir. My BEV ownership experience jives with what you said, though I have used Tesla Superchargers as well as Chargepoint, Blink, and EA public charging stations a handful of times. I have met many members of the North Texas Electric Auto Association that have handled 100% or close to 100% of their vehicle charging needs at home.

 

Even though range anxiety is something that BEV owners tend to overcome quickly once they get experience owning and operating their vehicle, if the expansion of public charging infrastructure for BEV helps automakers exit the ICE age sooner, it's a very good thing.

[Deanh]

19 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Fun fact... there is already more public charging stations within 2 miles of my house than there are gas station. 

 

I agree that widespread public charging won't be necessary for wider EV adoption. It's one of those nice to have options but not necessary. The notion that somehow we need to add a lot of public charging is tied to range anxiety which is fundamentally an issue with lack of direct experience. If you talk to EV owners, you will find that vast majority of them never use public chargers. 

 

The other thing that you see being talked about incessantly in any EV topic is the notion that existing range is inadequate so the vehicle (and EV at large) cannot replace ICE vehicles. But why only focus on the edge use case on ICE vehicles and use that to disqualify EV? Why don't edge use case obsessives ever think about all the edge use case for EV that ICE vehicles cannot do? For example, which ICE car can power your house for 4 days like Lightning? OMG, how can anyone buy a car that doesn't do that when you know about once every decade you may have a 2 day blackout? 

 

 

OK...Now what happens when you are utilizing a pickup to tow a small fifth wheel and you pull into a town that streams Banjo music over their PA system and you need to charge the truck...........? Answer....you would NOT have that problem with a hybrid F150 because the Gas station infrastructure is up to snuff...just sayin....regular EVs arent utilized in the same fashion as EV pickups will be...as for blackouts, we ALREADY have them...now institute an EV mandate where theres substantially more draw on the grid....then what?...this will be interesting to observe, and I applaud Fords effort...but I fully understand the reservations some have. 

[bzcat]

21 minutes ago, Deanh said:

OK...Now what happens when you are utilizing a pickup to tow a small fifth wheel and you pull into a town that streams Banjo music over their PA system and you need to charge the truck...........? Answer....you would NOT have that problem with a hybrid F150 because the Gas station infrastructure is up to snuff...just sayin....regular EVs arent utilized in the same fashion as EV pickups will be...as for blackouts, we ALREADY have them...now institute an EV mandate where theres substantially more draw on the grid....then what?...this will be interesting to observe, and I applaud Fords effort...but I fully understand the reservations some have. 

 

Don't drive your EV and tow a 5th wheel into a town that streams banjo music over PA ?

 

I'm only half joking. Why would you do that in an EV? You reply is my point... if you do that regularly, you should buy something else, like the F-150 hybrid. So don't use that to disqualify EV, just like we don't use not being able to power your house as an excuse to disqualify someone who wants to buy a Raptor. 

 

As for blackouts, you are probably referring to temporary transmission shut downs to avoid fire danger or the rolling brownouts we had a couple of years ago due to manipulation by energy traders who shutdown  power plants to drain the supply on purpose to jack up the rates on deregulated users. Smart people have already studied the grid capacity and the general consensus is we have plenty of generating capacity to accomodate EVs since most of them charge at night when the electricity is just wasted. We can add resiliency to the grid with more storage capacity but we don't really need a whole bunch of new capacity. Now, if you get your news from rightwing fake news peddler, I can understand why you think we have widespread blackout problem but the truth is we don't have them very often except for real disasters like the recent Texas deep freeze that took out conventional power supplies. And the texas blackout could have been avoided if their grid was connected to the rest of the country so it was a self-inflicted problem (and yes, I'm in the energy industry... it's my job to know)

Edited May 21, 2021 by bzcat

[rmc523]

50 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Fun fact... there is already more public charging stations within 2 miles of my house than there are gas station. 

 

I agree that widespread public charging won't be necessary for wider EV adoption. It's one of those nice to have options but not necessary. The notion that somehow we need to add a lot of public charging is tied to range anxiety which is fundamentally an issue with lack of direct experience. If you talk to EV owners, you will find that vast majority of them never use public chargers. 

 

The other thing that you see being talked about incessantly in any EV topic is the notion that existing range is inadequate so the vehicle (and EV at large) cannot replace ICE vehicles. But why only focus on the edge use case on ICE vehicles and use that to disqualify EV? Why don't edge use case obsessives ever think about all the edge use case for EV that ICE vehicles cannot do? For example, which ICE car can power your house for 4 days like Lightning? OMG, how can anyone buy a car that doesn't do that when you know about once every decade you may have a 2 day blackout? 

 

I agree to an extent.  People are used to doing it one way for their entire lives, so you're not going to immediately get people to change/think differently.

That said, as I've said before, Americans like to plan for the "what if" scenario - what if I take that 1,000 mile road trip?  What if I need to get that big item at the store once a year?  - rather than looking at what they need on a daily basis.....I do it too.

[Deanh]

20 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

Don't drive your EV and tow a 5th wheel into a town that streams banjo music over PA ?

 

I'm only half joking. Why would you do that in an EV? You reply is my point... if you do that regularly, you should buy something else, like the F-150 hybrid. So don't use that to disqualify EV, just like we don't use not being able to power your house as an excuse to disqualify someone who wants to buy a Raptor. 

 

As for blackouts, you are probably referring to temporary transmission shut downs to avoid fire danger or the rolling brownouts we had a couple of years ago due to manipulation by energy traders who shutdown  power plants to drain the supply on purpose to jack up the rates on deregulated users. Smart people have already studied the grid capacity and the general consensus is we have plenty of generating capacity to accomodate EVs since most of them charge at night when the electricity is just wasted. We can add resiliency to the grid with more storage capacity but we don't really need a whole bunch of new capacity. Now, if you get your news from rightwing fake news peddler, I can understand why you think we have widespread blackout problem but the truth is we don't have them very often except for real disasters like the recent Texas deep freeze that took out conventional power supplies. And the texas blackout could have been avoided if their grid was connected to the rest of the country so it was a self-inflicted problem (and yes, I'm in the energy industry... it's my job to know)

yep, embracing EVs fully depends on its application...I cant see EVs being utilized for off the grid camping adventures either. As for blackouts...we have them here in So Cal when it gets hot and everyone turns on their A/C....they should be investing in improving things so that doesn't happen....and I don't think ever increasing populace and mandating Electric cars by 2035 will help the situation in any way form or manner, especially when we deem investing into pet projects such as Bullet Trains to no where more important.... ( don't get me started on how water shortages are being addressed in this state....lol...LOONY TUNES

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, tzach said:

 

I don't thin this is necessary at all.  Most driving is back and forth to home, where the vehicle can be charged.  On routes like highways where people are taking long trips yes but in general no.  There are about five to eight gas stations within five minutes of my house in the suburbs.  There are virtually no long distance travelers driving around most small and medium size towns and there is no need for electric at all of these locations even if 100% of the fleet was electric.

 

We live in the country, not the suburbs.  Rural driving usually means driving long distances.  In northern Michigan, towns, and gas stations, are widely spaced.  A few weeks back, the small town we stayed at in Michigan's Upper Peninsula didn't even have a gas station.  Widespread BEV acceptance in rural areas will be many years behind suburbs and cities.  

[Harley Lover]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

Apparently we have over 10% of Commiefornias reservations...not bad for a Mum and Pop store! we were at 85 early this morning...…..

Can you determine if the majority of the reservations are individuals or businesses?

[Deanh]

11 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

Can you determine if the majority of the reservations are individuals or businesses?

individuals.

[jpd80]

Just saw the YouTube with  TFL crew discussing the Lightning, you can program in the weight of the trailer, ball weight and even the profile of the trailer and the software will give you and energy profile including the expected range of current battery charge.

I think that feature is gold in defeating range anxiety, the unknown distance to empty is what kills enthusiasm as people have this vision of towing with a BEV and having to recharge every two hours.......This is the next big hurdle to overcome.

 

Any significant towing with BEVs is a problem, the Tesla X with 300 mile range was hooked to a 4,500 lb  trailer and the range went to 100 miles. I cannot see a Lightning that’s towing it’s Max  7,700 lbs/10,000 lbs  having anything more than  a third of its advertised range, maybe even less.....

Edited May 21, 2021 by jpd80

[akirby]

2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

We live in the country, not the suburbs.  Rural driving usually means driving long distances.  In northern Michigan, towns, and gas stations, are widely spaced.  A few weeks back, the small town we stayed at in Michigan's Upper Peninsula didn't even have a gas station.  Widespread BEV acceptance in rural areas will be many years behind suburbs and cities.  

Exactly.  My wife’s family lives in rural South Ga at least 45 miles from any significantly sized city.  There would have to be an accessible charger in each city at a minimum for me to even consider driving an EV.  Could it be done?  Sure but it would be enormously inconvenient.

[sullynd]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Just saw the YouTube with  TFL crew discussing the Lightning, you can program in the weight of the trailer, ball weight and even the profile of the trailer and the software will give you and energy profile including the expected range of current battery charge.

Presumably some of this can be/is handled by the smart hitch. 

[AGR]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I agree to an extent.  People are used to doing it one way for their entire lives, so you're not going to immediately get people to change/think differently.

That said, as I've said before, Americans like to plan for the "what if" scenario - what if I take that 1,000 mile road trip?  What if I need to get that big item at the store once a year?  - rather than looking at what they need on a daily basis.....I do it too.

At a different forum I'm on, this one guy who owns/owned a Passat TDI said that EVs were a no go for him. He lives in Maryland and said that when he visits family in Savannah, GA, he drives NONSTOP to get there(650 miles). Yeah right..

Edited May 22, 2021 by AGR

[AGR]

4 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

We live in the country, not the suburbs.  Rural driving usually means driving long distances.  In northern Michigan, towns, and gas stations, are widely spaced.  A few weeks back, the small town we stayed at in Michigan's Upper Peninsula didn't even have a gas station.  Widespread BEV acceptance in rural areas will be many years behind suburbs and cities.  

 

...or, if gas stations are that far apart, some rural areas might be AHEAD of urban areas in EV adoption. Like I said in another thread, none of us has a crystal ball.

[slemke]

51 minutes ago, AGR said:

At a different forum I'm on, this one guy who owns/owned a Passat TDI said that EVs were a no go for him. He lives in Maryland and said that when he visits family in Savannah, GA, he drives NONSTOP to get there(650 miles). Yeah right..

Sounds like my brother.  Non-stop from KC to MN.  No eating or drinking so he doesn’t have to stop.

[slemke]

3 hours ago, sullynd said:

Presumably some of this can be/is handled by the smart hitch. 

Same scale tech that is built into the regular F150.  Should have realized the technology was a preview feature of the Lightning.

[slemke]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I think that feature is gold in defeating range anxiety, the unknown distance to empty is what kills enthusiasm as people have this vision of towing with a BEV and having to recharge every two hours.......This is the next big hurdle to overcome.

 

Any significant towing with BEVs is a problem, the Tesla X with 300 mile range was hooked to a 4,500 lb  trailer and the range went to 100 miles. I cannot see a Lightning that’s towing it’s Max  7,700 lbs/10,000 lbs  having anything more than  a third of its advertised range, maybe even less.....

Or not.  When the trip computer comes back with the estimated range of under 100 miles, it may come back with a vengeance.  The operator will know they have to stop more often and have little room for error.  May not be an issue along the coasts, but out in the rural areas, where charging stations are farther apart, I can see some anxiety.  Particularly if the wind changes and all of a sudden you have a 30 plus mph head wind.  The extra time to charge may become problematic also.

[Quags]

Towing will be the limiting factor for any EV truck for the time being.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Quags

[blazerdude20]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Exactly.  My wife’s family lives in rural South Ga at least 45 miles from any significantly sized city.  There would have to be an accessible charger in each city at a minimum for me to even consider driving an EV.  Could it be done?  Sure but it would be enormously inconvenient.

It might go a bit of the opposite direction. My parents live in a rural town and the nearest gas station is 15 miles away at the casino. They only drive 35-40 miles each way max to go to doctor appointments or grocery shopping. Having to plan getting gas around the limited hours and days the station is open is frustrating for them. 
 

They are very open to being able to charge a vehicle in their driveway and not worry about gas stations. 
 

I definitely see it if your small town is 100 miles away from the next one of size though. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by blazerdude20

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, AGR said:

...or, if gas stations are that far apart, some rural areas might be AHEAD of urban areas in EV adoption. Like I said in another thread, none of us has a crystal ball.

 

I don't follow you.  EV charging stations will be installed in high population areas first, and sparsely populated areas last.   Michigan has about 10 million people, 3% who live in the Upper Peninsula.  There's no real incentive to install an extensive charging system anytime soon in the U.P.

[slemke]

7 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

I don't follow you.  EV charging stations will be installed in high population areas first, and sparsely populated areas last.   Michigan has about 10 million people, 3% who live in the Upper Peninsula.  There's no real incentive to install an extensive charging system anytime soon in the U.P.

He means you can install one at your house creating your own filling station.  That’s good for local trips, but may cause some range anxiety if you aren’t comfortable using the tools to charge up when you can.

[AGR]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

I don't follow you.  EV charging stations will be installed in high population areas first, and sparsely populated areas last.   Michigan has about 10 million people, 3% who live in the Upper Peninsula.  There's no real incentive to install an extensive charging system anytime soon in the U.P.

What blazerdude20 and slemke said.