All Electric Ford F-150 Lightning to be revealed on May 19 at 930 pm ET

[akirby]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’ve heard that the US uses central tap transformers to deliver domestic  120 volts 

 but the total potential across the positive/negative  (+120 -0- -120) is 240 volts.

so all households should be able to access 240 volts, yes?

Older houses only have one leg and some are only 60 amps.  Newer homes usually have at least two 100 amp legs.

 

On a side note in our old house about 7 years after it was built I noticed some things in the house weren’t working but it was random.  Lights worked in one room but not the other.  It was winter so we weren’t running the AC and we had gas heat so that was fine.  At first I thought we had a surge that fried several circuit breakers but I had never heard of that so I called our local EMC and the lady said oh you have a half out meaning one leg of the service was out.  The bus bars in the panel zigzag to support double pole breakers so it appeared random as to which breakers were affected.   They traced the underground wires to my neighbors front yard, dug a 18” hole 4 feet deep and spliced the wires.  Apparently one of the cables got nicked when they buried it.

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

If I wanted to take it up north with me I can tow it with the Flex. 

 

Otsego Lake is great for pike, perch and bass.

[bzcat]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

The problem is you need 2 100 amp legs and a lot of older houses only have one leg feeding the house so they’d have to be upgraded.  Most houses will have to upgrade the service anyway for modern appliances and central air, etc.

 

Right now the code only requires a 20 amp receptacle in each garage bay (GFCI protected).   I could see them making a 30 amp 240 line mandatory at some point but I think it would be too expensive to run a 60 or 80 amp line which is really what you need.   However I can see builders including that on more expensive homes.

 

Most EV will charge just fine with 40 amp. Of course you can do 80 amps but that's probably going to be more for commercial use. Just like lead pipes and asbestos, the electrical in older houses will get upgraded to accommodate 240V EV charging when they are renovated. It will happen over time and then it will reach a critical point where you will not be able to sell a home without having done the work. 

 

On a whole, it is much easier to upgrade electrical than to repipe or re-insulate the house. Local Govt also has a very important role to play in making sure codes are updated to reflect societal needs. 

 

I can tell you that in my neighborhood, EVSE Level 2-ready garage is frequently included as a feature in real estate listing like tankless water heater or solar panels.

Edited May 23, 2021 by bzcat

[SoonerLS]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Older houses only have one leg and some are only 60 amps.  Newer homes usually have at least two 100 amp legs.

 

On a side note in our old house about 7 years after it was built I noticed some things in the house weren’t working but it was random.  Lights worked in one room but not the other.  It was winter so we weren’t running the AC and we had gas heat so that was fine.  At first I thought we had a surge that fried several circuit breakers but I had never heard of that so I called our local EMC and the lady said oh you have a half out meaning one leg of the service was out.  The bus bars in the panel zigzag to support double pole breakers so it appeared random as to which breakers were affected.   They traced the underground wires to my neighbors front yard, dug a 18” hole 4 feet deep and spliced the wires.  Apparently one of the cables got nicked when they buried it.

One day we  lost one leg of the three-phase circuit that fed our building where I used to work. It looked seemingly random as to which circuits stayed live, but it all came down to which phases were on which circuits. 
 

FWIW, that one happened because an HVAC contractor was replacing a motor on a 100-ton chiller. The replacement motor had been kept in a climate-controlled warehouse, then transported in a climate-controlled van, then sat in a decidedly not climate-controlled mechanical room on a humid day. When they threw the breaker after getting everything hooked up, kapow. 
 

The funny part about that was a 250A fuse sacrificed itself to protect the 50A fuse that was upstream of it…

[sullynd]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

On a side note in our old house about 7 years after it was built I noticed some things in the house weren’t working but it was random.  Lights worked in one room but not the other.  It was winter so we weren’t running the AC and we had gas heat so that was fine.  At first I thought we had a surge that fried several circuit breakers but I had never heard of that so I called our local EMC and the lady said oh you have a half out meaning one leg of the service was out.  The bus bars in the panel zigzag to support double pole breakers so it appeared random as to which breakers were affected. 

We had this exact same issue, except our wires are overhead. The day we closed on the house it reeked, because there was a thawed/rotten chicken in the freezer. The freezer was unplugged, and we were replacing it anyway so we thought nothing of it. After living in the house for a couple months we noticed the same type of random gremlins, including the freezer going out. Fortunately one day it happened the electrician doing our kitchen was there, and we determined the fault was in ComEDs portion of the line. 

[blazerdude20]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

The problem is you need 2 100 amp legs and a lot of older houses only have one leg feeding the house so they’d have to be upgraded.  Most houses will have to upgrade the service anyway for modern appliances and central air, etc.

 

Right now the code only requires a 20 amp receptacle in each garage bay (GFCI protected).   I could see them making a 30 amp 240 line mandatory at some point but I think it would be too expensive to run a 60 or 80 amp line which is really what you need.   However I can see builders including that on more expensive homes.

Codes are changing. I looked into it today and the ICC voted to approve requirements for the International Electrical Code 2021 that will require the necessary conduit, panels, and outlets to charge at least one vehicle overnight. Multiple chargers for multi family units. 
 

the ICC standards are in use by every state in the US and many countries. While each jurisdiction might make small adjustments to the code to suite their needs, it’s largely adopted as is. 
 

https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/PRELIMINARY-2019-GROUP-B-OGCV-RESULTS.pdf

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2020/01/28/icc-ev-charger-ready-building-code/

[slemke]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

The problem is you need 2 100 amp legs and a lot of older houses only have one leg feeding the house so they’d have to be upgraded.  Most houses will have to upgrade the service anyway for modern appliances and central air, etc.

 

Right now the code only requires a 20 amp receptacle in each garage bay (GFCI protected).   I could see them making a 30 amp 240 line mandatory at some point but I think it would be too expensive to run a 60 or 80 amp line which is really what you need.   However I can see builders including that on more expensive homes.

It was 15A not too long ago.  I had to request a 20A circuit for the garage when I had my house built.  Builders won’t put in anything more than code unless the buyer purchases an upgrade.  Often, though, there is a service panel in the garage so running an additional 30-50A circuit may not be a big deal.  But 80, 100, or 125 would require upgraded wiring from the service entrance if it isn’t in the garage like it was on my old house.  But that was only 100A service and was built in the early 90s.  Many homes will need some fairly expensive electrical upgrades for reasonable at home charging.

[akirby]

53 minutes ago, slemke said:

 Many homes will need some fairly expensive electrical upgrades for reasonable at home charging.

That’s my point.  Anyone with access to 240v at home charging can easily use a BEV at least part time.  But people who live in older homes or homes without garages or townhomes/apartments it will take super fast nearby public charging to convert them and that’s going to take years if not a decade or two.

[LookingToBuyAFord]

Do you think they would ever do the 8ft box model for the Lightning?

[HotRunrGuy]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:09 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:

I'll put it to you this way, I'm having a friend help me resurface my deck and he tapped into the AC circuit to power his air compressor because it's a 240 circuit. 

 

I think a new hack will be people creating a 14-50 patch cord with a breaker, and popping it into friends/family's breaker box to get a place to plug-in, just like your friend is doing. I'm at my sisters' house in TX this week, I might as well make a note of what breakers her box uses, and if there's a pair of side by side open slots for the 2-pole breaker.

 

HRG

Edited May 24, 2021 by HotRunrGuy

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I think a new hack will be people creating a 14-50 patch cord with a breaker, and popping it into friends/family's breaker box to get a place to plug-in, just like your friend is doing. I'm at my sisters' house in TX this week, I might as well make a note of what breakers her box uses, and if there's a pair of side by side open slots for the 2-pole breaker.

 

HRG

 

Thats exactly what he has

 

which is also why I now have a lock for that box ?

[SoonerLS]

11 hours ago, LookingToBuyAFord said:

Do you think they would ever do the 8ft box model for the Lightning?

I'd think they'd eventually make a Lightning variant in every cab/bed/wheelbase combination the F-150 has. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

I'd think they'd eventually make a Lightning variant in every cab/bed/wheelbase combination the F-150 has. 

With around 70-75% of F150s sold being crew cabs, I can understand why Lightning is only in the most popular body configuration, better to fill out production that way until there’s signs of demand for other body types, maybe Super Cab but Regular cab might be tough to justify...

[slemke]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

With around 70-75% of F150s sold being crew cabs, I can understand why Lightning is only in the most popular body configuration, better to fill out production that way until there’s signs of demand for other body types, maybe Super Cab but Regular cab might be tough to justify...

I would think regular cab is more popular with commercial buyers, which may be more likely to want a Lightning.  It used to share the same wheelbase with supercab 6.5’ and super crew 5.5’, but now is a couple inches shorter.  Supercab may be next as it shares the same wheelbase as the super crew 5.5’ bed.

[SoonerLS]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

With around 70-75% of F150s sold being crew cabs, I can understand why Lightning is only in the most popular body configuration, better to fill out production that way until there’s signs of demand for other body types, maybe Super Cab but Regular cab might be tough to justify...

I'm thinking the Lightning is a big part of the future of the F-150. My guess is that they're high-grading right now, going after where they think they'll get the most profit with the least investment (I mean that as in minimizing the risk, not as in cheaping out), but they're eventually going to have to cover all of the F-150's bases, which means they're going to have to hit all the combinations that the F-150 offers. 

[jpd80]

8 hours ago, slemke said:

I would think regular cab is more popular with commercial buyers, which may be more likely to want a Lightning.  It used to share the same wheelbase with supercab 6.5’ and super crew 5.5’, but now is a couple inches shorter.  Supercab may be next as it shares the same wheelbase as the super crew 5.5’ bed.

Ford is executing a careful balancing act here, growing total F Series Sales with a fourth plant adding high value BEVs. At the moment RC F Series is lucky to be 10% of total monthly sales (6k-7k) which converts to about 4K per month F150. Now, it depends on how local councils and what not view their BEV commitment, do they go electric, hybrid or PHEV?

Ford will be sniffing this out at the moment....

 

7 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I'm thinking the Lightning is a big part of the future of the F-150. My guess is that they're high-grading right now, going after where they think they'll get the most profit with the least investment (I mean that as in minimizing the risk, not as in cheaping out), but they're eventually going to have to cover all of the F-150's bases, which means they're going to have to hit all the combinations that the F-150 offers. 

This but obviously, not right now. If the Lightning is the future for F150, then this is the beginning of the transition but my suspicion is that Ford will milk F150 ICE, Hybrid and Powerboost for all their worth and capitalise on having four F Series plants, Maybe they add BEV Expedition and Navigator in a year?

I could see those being more high value than RC XL F150s........

Edited May 25, 2021 by jpd80

[fordmantpw]

On 5/23/2021 at 9:39 AM, akirby said:

It takes 19 hours to fully charge on a 240 line with the 32 amp mobile charger.  On a 15 amp 120 line it’s probably 36 hours.
 

Like I said it’s not a matter of can it be done but how inconvenient it will be and how many people will put up with the inconvenience.  

 

Actually, if it takes 19 hours on 240V/32 amp, it'll take about 81 hours at 120V/15 amp.

[Gurgeh]

9 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I'm thinking the Lightning is a big part of the future of the F-150. My guess is that they're high-grading right now, going after where they think they'll get the most profit with the least investment (I mean that as in minimizing the risk, not as in cheaping out), but they're eventually going to have to cover all of the F-150's bases, which means they're going to have to hit all the combinations that the F-150 offers. 

They also seem, for the first year at least, volume constrained to 80k units (as the MME is constrained to 50k units its first year) due to supply issues -- probably batteries. If that is all you can make your first year it makes sense to simplify initial availability, with more options and configurations becoming available as you work through those constraints.  

[sullynd]

If they plugged the batteries into the regular frame it would make it easier to offer multiple configurations.  With it having a unique frame the most likely configuration would be a combination that fits on the same frame.  Anyone know if another configuration matches up?

[akirby]

1 hour ago, sullynd said:

If they plugged the batteries into the regular frame it would make it easier to offer multiple configurations.  With it having a unique frame the most likely configuration would be a combination that fits on the same frame.  Anyone know if another configuration matches up?

I don’t think it’s difficult to have different size skateboards.  The batteries are modular.  
 

CC and SC 6.5’ are the same length.  RC 8’ is about 4 inches shorter.  If they stretch the cab 4 inches behind the seat they could do all 3 on the same wheelbase and length.

[CoolScoop]

Seems to me shortened versions of the Lightning skateboard would make it fairly easy to also adapt Expedition and Navigator to full EV...

Edited May 25, 2021 by CoolScoop

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

Seems to me shortened versions of the Lightning skateboard would make it fairly easy to also adapt Expedition and Navigator to full EV...

Shortened?

[CoolScoop]

23 minutes ago, akirby said:

Shortened?

Shorter wheelbases to match regular and max models...

[akirby]

25 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

Shorter wheelbases to match regular and max models...

 

I had no idea Expedition was that much shorter than F150.

[Stray Kat]

I just noticed the contrast of the Hummer reveal versus the F150 Lightning. 
 

They seem to want to evoke a dark post apocalyptic world into which the Hummer emerges over at GM. At the same time the F150 Lightning is being targeted at solving the problems of the complex future in many ways. 
 

 

Also I don’t know if y’all caught it bu in the Hummer introduction they show a scene where the Hummer pulls out and passes a gas powered GM truck towing an Airstream on a barren road. It does this autonomously. 
 

In the Ford intro you actually see the Lightning pulling a good size Airstream along a beautiful scened and green road. Kind of a poke in the eye. 
 

It like Dungeons and Dragons versus Captain America. Lol

Edited May 25, 2021 by Stray Kat