All Electric Ford F-150 Lightning to be revealed on May 19 at 930 pm ET

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

2 competitors for F-150 Lightning have now gone away, at least in the short term.

 

1. Tesla Cybertruck, see jasonj80's thread. Tesla Cyber Truck Cancelled / Postponed indefinity - Competing Products - Blue Oval Forums
2. Bollinger B2. Bollinger Suspends Plans for Electric B1 SUV and B2 Pickup (caranddriver.com)

 

Not a surprise. Truck buyers are not as receptive to new brands as car and SUV buyers. The significant portion of sales to fleet buyers also cuts against the new entrants since fleet almost never want something untested. 

 

And if you can't get fleet buy in, it's almost impossible to compete in the truck and van business (see Nissan...)

[Deanh]

15 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

Not a surprise. Truck buyers are not as receptive to new brands as car and SUV buyers. The significant portion of sales to fleet buyers also cuts against the new entrants since fleet almost never want something untested. 

 

And if you can't get fleet buy in, it's almost impossible to compete in the truck and van business (see Nissan...)

fleet almost never want something untested.  Unless youre Amazon...ala Rivian….don't get me started on the EV Semis that supposedly had massive orders 

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

fleet almost never want something untested.  Unless youre Amazon...ala Rivian….don't get me started on the EV Semis that supposedly had massive orders 

 

Amazon has ordered way more vans from Ford, Stellantis, and Daimler on a worldwide basis than they did with Rivian, including EV ones. Ford has an order from Amazon on eTransit for delivery in both US and Europe for example. Amazon's investment in Rivian is more philosophical... Amazon is all about vertical integration. Hence why they started their own delivery service instead of relying on UPS or FedEx. They even went as far as buying their own cargo planes creating their own airline - although they retreated once they realize they can't hire enough pilots (Amazon Air currently has about 100 airplanes contracted out and operated by about a dozen different cargo airlines). Bezos would probably prefer to build his own airplane too if the cost wasn't so stupefying crazy expensive. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by bzcat

[jpd80]

I’m glad that Ford started of its EV revolution with E Transit, Lightning and Mach E, there’s a good mix of retail and fleet buyers there. It’s a massive undertaking to embrace EVs and bring in new customers as well as keeping existing ICE customers interested. Maybe that will be why things like growth in electric fleet customers may be harder for us to notice unless Ford breaks that out.

 

While Ford is no doubt working on electrifying it’s Super Duty trucks, I wonder if that grows from or is an extension of a gasoline hybrid that takes advantage of speed variability in more constantly loaded trucks. Whatever is planned, it will have to make financial sense for fleet buyers to even consider.

Edited January 14, 2022 by jpd80

[Deanh]

6 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Amazon has ordered way more vans from Ford, Stellantis, and Daimler on a worldwide basis than they did with Rivian, including EV ones. Ford has an order from Amazon on eTransit for delivery in both US and Europe for example. Amazon's investment in Rivian is more philosophical... Amazon is all about vertical integration. Hence why they started their own delivery service instead of relying on UPS or FedEx. They even went as far as buying their own cargo planes creating their own airline - although they retreated once they realize they can't hire enough pilots (Amazon Air currently has about 100 airplanes contracted out and operated by about a dozen different cargo airlines). Bezos would probably prefer to build his own airplane too if the cost wasn't so stupefying crazy expensive. 

Missed the point....The operative word was "UNTESTED".....and its a double whammy...its not ;like Rivian has an established track record....rolling dice there IMO, and I think they like the publicity generated , especially given the "green" rhetoric getting all the publicity....

[rperez817]

Final EPA estimated range figures for F-150 Lightning came out today. ER versions of XLT, Lariat, and Pro have 20 miles more range than originally targeted.

 

 

[akirby]

Wasn’t it reported that these range estimates included 1000 lbs of cargo?

 

I was just at the pathetic Atlanta auto show and some random guy told me the Lightning would only go 30 miles towing 10k lbs.  ?

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Wasn’t it reported that these range estimates included 1000 lbs of cargo?

 

That is correct. Last year Ford told Mr. Brownlee, the well known YouTube personality, that the range estimates for F-150 Lightning factor in 1,000 lbs. of cargo. This is mentioned at 8:20 in the video below.

 

 

[Trader 10]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Wasn’t it reported that these range estimates included 1000 lbs of cargo?

 

I was just at the pathetic Atlanta auto show and some random guy told me the Lightning would only go 30 miles towing 10k lbs.  ?

I doubt range is more than 75 to 100 miles towing 10k unless its towing on level ground at a steady speed. 

[rperez817]

Video of F-150 Lightning prototype testing towing capabilities (10,000 lb trailers) in 2 extreme conditions.

1. Ike Gauntlet in winter
2. Davis Dam in summer

 

[bigzaj]

Any real world expectation on what towing like this should do to range?

[rperez817]

33 minutes ago, bigzaj said:

Any real world expectation on what towing like this should do to range?

 

I was hoping the F-150 Lightning chief engineer would provide that data in the video, but there's no mention of it. 

 

As soon as TFLTruck gets its hand on a production F-150 Lightning, I'm sure they'll do their own tests to calculate real world range in various towing scenarios.

[amtrucker22]

I heard half the normal range in perfect conditions with a light load. Would love some real world data. 

[jpd80]

Think about this,  F150 3.5 EB has a 26 gallon fuel tank, normally gets about 24 mpg on the highway

but when towing with around 7,000 lbs, that fuel economy drops to roughly 7 mpg, so 186 miles max.

under the same conditions, the 5.0 F150 gets around 9 mpg which is something to consider…..

 

If Lightning has a 320 mile long range battery and it tows 7,000 lbs, then 150-160 miles range is comparable

to the range of a regular F150 with 26 gallon tank, provided that you can recharge from 20% to 80% for those

longer journeys.

 

If you buy a Lightning with 220 mile battery, towing more than 50-60 miles could become annoyingly painful.

Edited April 2, 2022 by jpd80

[slemke]

10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Think about this,  F150 3.5 EB has a 26 gallon fuel tank, normally gets about 24 mpg on the highway

but when towing with around 7,000 lbs, that fuel economy drops to roughly 7 mpg, so 186 miles max.

under the same conditions, the 5.0 F150 gets around 9 mpg which is something to consider…..

 

If Lightning has a 320 mile long range battery and it tows 7,000 lbs, then 150-160 miles range is comparable

to the range of a regular F150 with 26 gallon tank, provided that you can recharge from 20% to 80% for those

longer journeys.

 

If you buy a Lightning with 220 mile battery, towing more than 50-60 miles could become annoyingly painful.

For those that tow, the regular f150 is available with a 36 gallon tank…so another 70-90 miles of range in your above example.

We will see what the actual numbers come out to be later this year.  Driving 2 hours and then spending an hour to recharge isn’t going to be fun.  I doubt, though, that many early lightning adopters will be towing heavy loads very far.  Those folks will continue to buy F250s with a diesel.

[jpd80]

32 minutes ago, slemke said:

For those that tow, the regular f150 is available with a 36 gallon tank…so another 70-90 miles of range in your above example.

We will see what the actual numbers come out to be later this year.  Driving 2 hours and then spending an hour to recharge isn’t going to be fun.  I doubt, though, that many early lightning adopters will be towing heavy loads very far.  Those folks will continue to buy F250s with a diesel.

You’re not going to tow to bone empty with a gasoline F1150, that’s why I pulled it up at 186 miles but sure why not 240-260 miles max range when towing.

 

I think you’re right, the reason that most are buying Lightning are for things other than regular towing for extended distances, the value of Lightning is in its use as a large electric sedan, there’s a lot of guilt free motoring to be had.

[slemke]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

You’re not going to tow to bone empty with a gasoline F1150, that’s why I pulled it up at 186 miles but sure why not 240-260 miles max range when towing.

 

I thought you were using the standard 26 gal tank for your estimate instead of the 36 gal extended range tank, so I added range based on using the full additional 10 gal of fuel and the mpg stated for the 3.5eb and 5.0.  Looking at your math, I’m not sure how you calculated it.  I’d say 225 miles (7x32.1 gal) eb to 290 miles  (9mpg x 32.2 gal) coyote for the extended range and 155 to 200 for the standard range.  Powerboost has a 30gal tank, which would give 185 or so miles on a tank.

 

At any rate, extended range Lightning may come pretty close to standard tank eb for towing range.  The big difference comes in refueling time if you need longer distances and the extended range tank.  Doing the math, it sure looks like Ford benchmarked the standard 26 gal tank for range comparisons for towing if the Lightning does indeed get the numbers you’re using.

[jpd80]

Sorry as usual I confused myself and yes the 26 gallon standard tank was used in my original assumption.

I think you’re correct with your thoughts on Ford’s benchmarking, not the perfect ranges for a BEV Pickup

but completely understand why Ford chose not to compete with GM’s big batteries, not just yet anyway…

[rperez817]

Official Ford launch event for F-150 Lightning will take place at 1330 Eastern on Tuesday, April 26. Livestream link.  http://ford.to/LightningStrikes

 

 

[FordBuyer]

On 1/14/2022 at 1:09 PM, bzcat said:

 

Amazon has ordered way more vans from Ford, Stellantis, and Daimler on a worldwide basis than they did with Rivian, including EV ones. Ford has an order from Amazon on eTransit for delivery in both US and Europe for example. Amazon's investment in Rivian is more philosophical... Amazon is all about vertical integration. Hence why they started their own delivery service instead of relying on UPS or FedEx. They even went as far as buying their own cargo planes creating their own airline - although they retreated once they realize they can't hire enough pilots (Amazon Air currently has about 100 airplanes contracted out and operated by about a dozen different cargo airlines). Bezos would probably prefer to build his own airplane too if the cost wasn't so stupefying crazy expensive. 

 

The many Amazon Van's  that come into our community every fricking day are almost all Ford Transits. My wife alone accounts for at least one every week. Ford sold over 500 Transit EVs last month. Looks like Rivian has some catching up to do. 

[rperez817]

Motor Trend praised Ford for living up to its promise to deliver F-150 Lightnings to the first set of customers perfectly on schedule. Actually, a little early which is even more amazing. Ford Will Deliver the First F-150 Lightnings to Customers Slightly Early—Early! (motortrend.com)

 

Ford from the jump has said it is going to start production of the 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning EV truck in Spring 2022, meaning… drum roll… it is perfectly on schedule. Dare we say, Ford is even a bit early, saying the first deliveries of Lightnings will begin April 26—before May, when it originally promised the truck would reach initial buyers—which is almost amazing. Shame on you for anticipating delays and supply chain issues, or the almost expected delays in a hotly anticipated product packing relatively new-to-its-maker tech.

 

The biggest challenge for Ford at this point is building enough F-150 Lightnings over the next couple years to meet short term customer demand. Hopefully Ford can address this issue over the longer term as the entire automotive industry transitions to 100% electric vehicles.

 

Even if Ford can quickly ramp up production to 150,000 Lightnings per year, which obviously won't happen in 2022, Ford won't be able to build EV F-150s fast enough to satisfy its customers' ravenous cravings.

[FordBuyer]

30 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Motor Trend praised Ford for living up to its promise to deliver F-150 Lightnings to the first set of customers perfectly on schedule. Actually, a little early which is even more amazing. Ford Will Deliver the First F-150 Lightnings to Customers Slightly Early—Early! (motortrend.com)

 

 

 

 

The biggest challenge for Ford at this point is building enough F-150 Lightnings over the next couple years to meet short term customer demand. Hopefully Ford can address this issue over the longer term as the entire automotive industry transitions to 100% electric vehicles.

 

 

 

 

So is April 26 a Lightning Job 1 date or a delivery date to actual customers? If a Job 1 date, then it's usually 6 weeks to OK to Ship date to dealers. If Ford can build 15,000+ Lightnings by end of year, then they certainly are beating Rivian that is building about 2,500/quarter. 

[rperez817]

54 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

So is April 26 a Lightning Job 1 date or a delivery date to actual customers? 

 

It should be the latter. The FDNB info that ice-capades shares with us in this forum had these dates for Order Bank Open, Scheduling, and Job #1 for 2022 F-150 Lightning. So it looks like the first production Lightnings were assembled about 1 month ago.

• 01/05/2022 - 2022MY Order Bank Open Date
• 01/27/2022 - 2022MY Scheduling Begins
• 03/14/2022 - 2022MY Job #1 Production Date

Edited April 15, 2022 by rperez817

[akirby]

48 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So is April 26 a Lightning Job 1 date or a delivery date to actual customers? If a Job 1 date, then it's usually 6 weeks to OK to Ship date to dealers. If Ford can build 15,000+ Lightnings by end of year, then they certainly are beating Rivian that is building about 2,500/quarter. 

Try reading the article.

[petemill]

April 26 is just the event date close enough to the date of production of the first customer orders, which is the preceding week. Likely they'll deliver those first few trucks then or soon after. I believe Job #1 was for dealer mannequins etc and has been happening for the last few weeks. Customer orders are all under Job #2 as per WBDO order sheets, which presumably starts around this week.