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For Sale - Ford Land selling properties


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12 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said:

Ford Land is selling "Rotunda Fields".  (Story in Detroit Free Press, but I can't get the link to work).

 

Rumor is, other holdings will also be for sale.  I keep wondering where they were getting the money to rebuild R&E and Michigan Depot.


Freep has a pretty good paywall now - hard to link articles. (need to google the headline then go to the cache version) 

They have been slowly selling off vacant land for years but it has accelerated in the past few years. Most of the space by Roush, Lions HQ and the USPS distribution center in Allen Park will be sold. Most of the buildings where Oakwood Hospitals Old headquarters and Carhartt headquarters will be sold as well, the Masco old headquarters in Taylor as well.  You'll have the Dearborn offices(Management/Finance/IT), Dearborn/AP Engineering Centers (Engineering), Train station (Engineering & Marketing)  

Train Station is a little different as they used a Brownfield TIF to develop it so they get the money back plus interest on the development. It is really a great investment; In the end they redevelop something and it costs zero dollars as the money for the development is refunded back to them from the tax dollars the development raised. They also get to deprecate it so it end you have a building you've been deprecating  and are being paid back for the development costs from the taxes the building is generating.

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At the start of the Great Recession, Ford (the automotive portion) still owned much of the real estate in the corporate portfolio.  I don't know who advised Bill Ford, but over a few years most (all ?) of it was transferred to Ford Land.  Ford Land could be easily split off and the car company sold if things got really bad and the Ford Family would still have a nest egg/income stream.

 

Unquestionably the R&E center needed some major upgrades, but I question the "scorched earth" strategy of tearing everything (except FRIC) down and building new.  Yes, it will be "green" inside and out (greatly reducing the "cost of operation") but I doubt that landscapes and bike paths are going to attract the the "best and brightest" engineering minds to the gray, cold winters of the Midwest !

 

I'm don't fully understand the "Brownfield TIF" even after your explanation.  I haven't been by Michigan Central in over 2 years, but it can never be a commercial success without tenants and clients/customers.  Both require PARKING, which is current non-existent !

 

Kudos to the company for building TWO new data centers !  Someone understands how valuable DATA is these days !!

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20 minutes ago, theoldwizard1 said:

Unquestionably the R&E center needed some major upgrades, but I question the "scorched earth" strategy of tearing everything (except FRIC) down and building new.  Yes, it will be "green" inside and out (greatly reducing the "cost of operation") but I doubt that landscapes and bike paths are going to attract the the "best and brightest" engineering minds to the gray, cold winters of the Midwest !

 

I'm don't fully understand the "Brownfield TIF" even after your explanation.  I haven't been by Michigan Central in over 2 years, but it can never be a commercial success without tenants and clients/customers.  Both require PARKING, which is current non-existent !

 

Ford is doing what needs to be done to meet its anticipated future facility needs for more efficient facilities that will benefit both the company and employees. Ford's real estate redevelopment will actually attract more new talent with better designed and equipped facilities that will help the company succeed in the new BEV vehicle market. 

 

The Michigan Central project is just part of Ford's commitment to Dearborn and funded in ways that benefits Ford and the Dearborn community. Don't judge the new facility by what existed previously.  

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8 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Ford is doing what needs to be done to meet its anticipated future facility needs for more efficient facilities that will benefit both the company and employees. Ford's real estate redevelopment will actually attract more new talent with better designed and equipped facilities that will help the company succeed in the new BEV vehicle market. 

Yes, that is the "party line".  I don't buy it.

 

I have worked in some terrible working conditions (for engineers).  No question it needs to be upgraded, but I doubt that it really will attract "the best and the brightest" !

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9 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said:

I'm don't fully understand the "Brownfield TIF" even after your explanation.  I haven't been by Michigan Central in over 2 years, but it can never be a commercial success without tenants and clients/customers.  Both require PARKING, which is current non-existent 

 

 

 

I don't have actual numbers but I'll do a slimmed down explanation on a Brownfield TIF.

 

The State/City say property is worth 0 dollars (It is never really worth 0 but this would be your base number) and needs to be cleaned up. Ford says it is going to cost 150 million to clean it up they come to an agreement with the City/State about the project where the assessor will come up with a number that when the property is cleaned up and operational. Say when it is complete it will have a tax value of 300 million. So Ford cleans up the site and the cost for this is 150 million.

 

Fast forward and the project is complete. Ford now goes to pay the tax on the property which has a value of 300 million and makes the tax payment of 15 million dollars, the city then issues a check back to Ford for 15 million dollars and will continue to do this each year until the 150 million is paid back to Ford.

 

In the agreement Ford has with the City/State it will determine what those payment would be. It may say 20% has to go back to the taxing jurisdictions during the life of the payback or if some taxing jurisdictions always get their tax. It will say the interest Ford is going to get for the money it put out for the project, say 6% or 7%. 

 

While this is going on Ford is also depreciating the building that is there so they get that added benefit on their taxes as well.

So at the end; say in 12-15 years the 150 million is paid back to Ford, then the City starts to collect the full value of the property. In the end it didn't cost Ford anything to develop they just had to front all the money and they actually made money on the deal as they can sell it for a profit and had a tax benefit. The City got a piece of property back on the tax roll and now has more business and people in the area as the area has been revitalized. 

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2 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said:

Yes, that is the "party line".  I don't buy it.

 

I have worked in some terrible working conditions (for engineers).  No question it needs to be upgraded, but I doubt that it really will attract "the best and the brightest" !


The tech companies have completely changed the work environment expectations of new hires.  20+ yr old office spaces don’t cut it any more.  All companies are having to revamp their office space with social spaces, games, collaboration zones, teleconferencing, coffee stations, etc.  it’s the new cost of doing business and if you don’t do it you won’t get the good new hires.

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11 minutes ago, akirby said:


The tech companies have completely changed the work environment expectations of new hires.  20+ yr old office spaces don’t cut it any more.  All companies are having to revamp their office space with social spaces, games, collaboration zones, teleconferencing, coffee stations, etc.  it’s the new cost of doing business and if you don’t do it you won’t get the good new hires.

 Explains the whole CAP experience. Kind of a blend of penitentiary and dystopian movie set. 

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Ford offices when I was there should have been condemned in the late 90's early 2000's. QMP which was torn down shortly after I did my time there was a dump, the ROB didn't have working escalators and random offices had been redone; the IT infrastructure was a joke. POEE/EEE roof leaked and the basement always had damp water smell. The Glass House carpet looked like it had never been washed or changed, some of the engineering buildings were okay but had windows that seals had broken and were all foggy and dead plants in the atriums. MAP / Wayne offices looked like 1965 and Woodhaven Stamping offices were built for 3000 and had 150 people working also from 1970. Livonia Transmission had decent offices as they were added in the 80's and Ford credit / IT buildings had been updated in the early 90's. The Glass House was embarrassing though foretold a lot; for a company that was in the top 10 of the Fortune 500 at the time it looked like a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy and it was.

 

Ford wanted to move in the early 2000's and built the new headquarters in Ann Arbor, his home was now out there and would be a fresh start from the family drama going on at that time. The old Pfizer building on Plymouth and the old Michcon site by downtown would have done the company well. Ford had also considered moving to Atlanta (site of the old assembly plant) as well as Texas during the mid 2000's to help with recruiting and starting a new image. GM now has large offices in Austin and outside Phoenix to help with the recruiting of people that do not want to move to the Detroit Area. 

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3 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Ford offices when I was there should have been condemned in the late 90's early 2000's. QMP which was torn down shortly after I did my time there was a dump, the ROB didn't have working escalators and random offices had been redone; the IT infrastructure was a joke. POEE/EEE roof leaked and the basement always had damp water smell. The Glass House carpet looked like it had never been washed or changed, some of the engineering buildings were okay but had windows that seals had broken and were all foggy and dead plants in the atriums. MAP / Wayne offices looked like 1965 and Woodhaven Stamping offices were built for 3000 and had 150 people working also from 1970. Livonia Transmission had decent offices as they were added in the 80's and Ford credit / IT buildings had been updated in the early 90's. The Glass House was embarrassing though foretold a lot; for a company that was in the top 10 of the Fortune 500 at the time it looked like a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy and it was.

 

Ford wanted to move in the early 2000's and built the new headquarters in Ann Arbor, his home was now out there and would be a fresh start from the family drama going on at that time. The old Pfizer building on Plymouth and the old Michcon site by downtown would have done the company well. Ford had also considered moving to Atlanta (site of the old assembly plant) as well as Texas during the mid 2000's to help with recruiting and starting a new image. GM now has large offices in Austin and outside Phoenix to help with the recruiting of people that do not want to move to the Detroit Area. 

 

Don't feel bad...almost all the places I worked in private industry where the same way. No one wants to spend money on capital improvements to make offices look nice. I work for the Navy now and the building I'm in is same age as me and I think the last time it got new furniture was when Top Gun came out in 1986...I'm hoping they update it before we start coming back into the office...plus they want to move to a hot seat type thing without any permanent/assigned seating since we will be working a hybrid schedule most likely of working from home and in the office 1-2 days a week.  

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5 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Ford had also considered moving to Atlanta (site of the old assembly plant) as well as Texas during the mid 2000's to help with recruiting and starting a new image. GM now has large offices in Austin and outside Phoenix to help with the recruiting of people that do not want to move to the Detroit Area. 

 

Ford is always welcome to move its HQ to Austin or other places in Texas. The move can definitely improve Ford's corporate image and attract new talent. Texans will welcome Ford with open arms. :)

 

The GM offices you mentioned in Austin and Phoenix metro are technology centers, primarily staffed by programmers, network engineers, and other computer specialists. GM operates 2 other U.S. based technology centers: one in the Atlanta area near Roswell and Alpharetta, and the other at the huge GM Tech Center campus in Warren, Michigan. These technology centers were created a few years ago largely as a result of GM bringing in-house a lot of computing related work they previously outsourced to the company that's now called DXC Technology.

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On 5/12/2021 at 9:44 PM, akirby said:


The tech companies have completely changed the work environment expectations of new hires.  20+ yr old office spaces don’t cut it any more.  All companies are having to revamp their office space with social spaces, games, collaboration zones, teleconferencing, coffee stations, etc.  it’s the new cost of doing business and if you don’t do it you won’t get the good new hires.

Ford had at least one office set up "the new way".  I don't recall any current white collar employees who said they liked it.  Some people actually came in early, grabbed their stuff and moved to mini-conference room for the day, every day !

 

Mid level management was very unhappy because they did not have an office where they could have a private conversation.

 

Grass, trees and bike paths don't look very nice in winter in MI!

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On 5/15/2021 at 3:32 PM, theoldwizard1 said:

Ford had at least one office set up "the new way".  I don't recall any current white collar employees who said they liked it.  Some people actually came in early, grabbed their stuff and moved to mini-conference room for the day, every day !

 

Mid level management was very unhappy because they did not have an office where they could have a private conversation.

 

Grass, trees and bike paths don't look very nice in winter in MI!

In the one instance I observed with "new" office design, no privacy was designed in for our LL5 manager. He promptly converted the mini conference room to his office. This is a manufacturing operation, loud voices and walkie-talkie use are very common. Not a pleasant office environment. We did get some nifty Steelcase furniture featuring work tables electrically adjustable for short or tall workers and use as a standing desk. 

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