akirby Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 My understanding is these vehicles run just fine so no issue delivering them. It could be a nightmare if they botch the module shipments to dealers, But if I was a dealer and you gave me the choice of not getting any of these trucks or getting 100 of them with the chance to sell 10 or 20 per month I think I’d take that deal right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Help me here- I thought this whole thing stared because all the car makers really don't have an exclusive factory for their chips. These same factories make chips that go in game consoles, phones, tvs, etc. It's not like these factories can just throw production runs over to another company-they have to balance out ALL THEIR (chip) CUSTOMERS as well. And that has been happening for the past few months, that and another chip supplier had a plant fire a few months ago too. So all the things you’re reading have already happened but what they’re not saying is what’s happening now and the coming month. The chips required for ECUs are not as sophisticated as those for advanced games and such, so it’s not so much about that but more that the one Chinese plant that made them was reassigned in 2020 to make other chips, back when almost every carmaker cancelled orders in the middle of the pandemic. Things have changed this year but those chips have been limited supply, something that’s slowly getting better. Edited July 16, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Help me here- I thought this whole thing stared because all the car makers really don't have an exclusive factory for their chips. These same factories make chips that go in game consoles, phones, tvs, etc. It's not like these factories can just throw production runs over to another company-they have to balance out ALL THEIR (chip) CUSTOMERS as well. Vehicle mfrs changed their forecasts months ago but there is a 6-12 month lead time. They were getting the chips before and they’ll get them again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, akirby said: My understanding is these vehicles run just fine so no issue delivering them. It could be a nightmare if they botch the module shipments to dealers, But if I was a dealer and you gave me the choice of not getting any of these trucks or getting 100 of them with the chance to sell 10 or 20 per month I think I’d take that deal right now. I'm seeing a lot of new F-150s with temporary transporter or in-transit repair plates on them around my house. I think they’re taking some to TDM in Flat Rock again like they did during the launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, akirby said: Vehicle mfrs changed their forecasts months ago but there is a 6-12 month lead time. They were getting the chips before and they’ll get them again. Its also why Bronco (and presumably Maverick) haven't been affected by the chip shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, CKNSLS said: Help me here- I thought this whole thing stared because all the car makers really don't have an exclusive factory for their chips. These same factories make chips that go in game consoles, phones, tvs, etc. It's not like these factories can just throw production runs over to another company-they have to balance out ALL THEIR (chip) CUSTOMERS as well. Only one of eight chip manufacturing plants in China was set up to produce them. When covid hit, automakers cancelled orders and the Chinese reassigned the plant to producing video and gaming chips. It’s taking the Chinese a while to get production space for automotive chips but they are getting there….it’s not 2020 anymore. Ford is expecting more chip deliveries in the near future as their chip supplier returns to full production this month. Edited July 17, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Its also why Bronco (and presumably Maverick) haven't been affected by the chip shortage. This. Some are acting like this is the start of bad things but really, I think Ford is almost through to better times. Plants will be returning to production in the near future, everyone will probably be flat out through to the new year. Edited July 17, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 39 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I'm seeing a lot of new F-150s with temporary transporter or in-transit repair plates on them around my house. I think they’re taking some to TDM in Flat Rock again like they did during the launch. A staging area to install ECUs before delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, jpd80 said: A staging area to install ECUs before delivery? no, these were being driven so they have to be missing a different chip that still allows it to be driven under its own power. Don't forget, they were taking pre-OKTB units there to be fixed before shipping them out. Edited July 17, 2021 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: This. Some are acting like this is the start of bad things but really, I think Ford is almost through to better times. Plants will be returning to production in the near future, everyone will probably be flat out through to the new year. Something is going on with Mullinax getting about 100 new vehicles last couple days. About 60 FSeries and rest Edges, Explorers, and Expedtions. No Escapes or Bronco Sports though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 7:06 PM, jpd80 said: The chips required for ECUs are not as sophisticated as those for advanced games and such, so it’s not so much about that but more that the one Chinese plant that made them was reassigned in 2020 to make other chips, back when almost every carmaker cancelled orders in the middle of the pandemic. WOW ! So much mis-information being thrown around ! First, I worked as a design engineer in Ford's now definition Electronics Division for over 10 years. Before, during and after that I was intimately involved in the software and hardware design of everything from the EEC-I through the PTEC (or whatever the marketing name was). The ECU/PCM is (likely) the most COMPLEX electronic module in the car simply because the government changes OBD requirements every year ! I am sure it has more Flash memory, more RAM memory than anyover module. It has non-eraseable memory for storing certain DTCs (no more disconnect the battery and it will forget). Designers are constantly fighting for more memory. These chips are only redesigned every few years. Redesigns means new features means new software. Most of the ICs in the dozens of modules are very simple 8/16 bit chips with no floating point and a very limited amount of Flash and RAM. Remember the module that drunk that fancy display in your F150 Lariat matched the same video driver as dozens of other consumer devices. The only module that had serviceable memory devices was the EEC-I and the EEC-II. The cost of sockets was too high. You will NEVER see automotive technician in the field opening modules and installing integrated circuits ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 9:09 PM, jpd80 said: A staging area to install ECUs before delivery? The only way to move a vehicle without a ECU/PCM is to push it ! No assembly plant is going to build vehicles that have to be pushed off the end of the line !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, theoldwizard1 said: The only way to move a vehicle without a ECU/PCM is to push it ! No assembly plant is going to build vehicles that have to be pushed off the end of the line !! Recently informed by others (and fuzzy) that the missing chips are not to do with ECUs, the vehicles are drivable so the issue is more to do with those annoying display chips that you mentioned in post above. That also explains delivery to dealers who will complete assembly and deliver to buyers. Seemed insane/nonsense to build vehicles with out ECUs, glad that’s sorted, adding display chips/modules is arguably much easier. Sorry, I thought you guys still used tubes in EEC-IV ( I kid..) Edited July 18, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 23 hours ago, jpd80 said: Sorry, I thought you guys still used tubes in EEC-IV ( I kid..) No tubes were used in EEC-I either ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 9 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said: No tubes were used in EEC-I either ! It wasn't called EEC-I until EEC-II came out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 hours ago, twintornados said: It wasn't called EEC-I until EEC-II came out.... Internally it was ! I worked on EEC-I and EEC-II at the same time. Same processor. (For you geeks, this was a true RISC processor ! Besides ADD, SUB, MULL and DIV it only had another 10 or so instructions. 12 bit data and address.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said: Internally it was ! I worked on EEC-I and EEC-II at the same time. Same processor. (For you geeks, this was a true RISC processor ! Besides ADD, SUB, MULL and DIV it only had another 10 or so instructions. 12 bit data and address.) Carburettor control? wasn’t EEC-2 used with Ford Variable Venturi Carb to control air fuel ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said: Internally it was ! I worked on EEC-I and EEC-II at the same time. Same processor. (For you geeks, this was a true RISC processor ! Besides ADD, SUB, MULL and DIV it only had another 10 or so instructions. 12 bit data and address.) I guess I should have used a smirking emoji....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 13 hours ago, jpd80 said: Carburettor control? wasn’t EEC-2 used with Ford Variable Venturi Carb to control air fuel ratio? Yes ! The VVT came in 2 flavors. With or without computer controlled fuel control. (7200 vs 2700). Later the infamous 2150 was modified to have fuel control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 In my travels the other day, I drove past four Ford dealerships in the I-395 corridor in northeastern CT. I think I saw a total of 10 new F-series. But at the same time, I didn't see many new Chevy/GMC pickups on lots either. Are the GM trucks missing because they have a chip shortage too, OR are customers buying competitors trucks because Ford has no product? I haven't driven by any Dodge/Ram dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Joe771476 said: Are the GM trucks missing because they have a chip shortage too, OR are customers buying competitors trucks because Ford has no product? Mostly the former, maybe a little bit of the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 9 hours ago, akirby said: Mostly the former, maybe a little bit of the latter. Not that this means ANYTHING undercurrent market conditions-but they are selling PLENTY of Silverados right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 52 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Not that this means ANYTHING undercurrent market conditions-but they are selling PLENTY of Silverados right now. I know which the SUVs they’re building them without certain features (wireless charging being the biggest one) to conserve chips. I'm sure they’re doing the same with the pickups. Not sure why Ford can't do the same thing. I would assume it's a difference in how the electrical modules are designed and built. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 4:25 PM, FordBuyer said: Last article I read is that Ford now is going to ship vehicles to dealers without chips in order to fill their lots with new vehicles. That way prospective customers can at least see the vehicles in person and st least will stop in and look. And later dealer techs will install the chips when they get them. Sounds like good plan to me. Nothing looks worse than dealership lots with no new vehicles. I wouldn’t trust the dealer service department to do this. No way, no how. You want quality issues on top of delays? Bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Anthony said: I wouldn’t trust the dealer service department to do this. No way, no how. You want quality issues on top of delays? Bad idea. Even they should be able to plug in a module…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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