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2022 Toyota Tundra Thread


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On 10/15/2021 at 11:21 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Are those people claiming F-150 isn't durable because it offers turbocharged gasoline engines? Or because it's made by Ford? 

 

Toyota was the first automaker to offer a turbocharged gasoline engine in a U.S. market pickup truck 35 years ago, the legendary 22R-TE.

85turbopickup.jpg

 

Please explain why this wonderful idea didn't sell enough to keep it in the line...

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On 10/12/2021 at 2:34 PM, tbone said:

It will be interesting to see some more reviews. I don’t think this was a bad review, but at the same time it wasn’t glowing either.  It basically implied the new truck will keep Toyota fans happy, which I’m sure Toyota considers important.  
 

It will also be interesting to see if Ford will eventually jump on the coil-spring rear suspension bandwagon. I do think it is an option they should look at adding.  They could basically steal it from the Expedition, so it doesn’t seem like it should take that much work to do. 

 

I find it more interesting that in addition to the rear coils, it also has IRS...your suggestion that Ford steal it from Expedition is a valid one.

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9 hours ago, akirby said:

You’re conveniently looking at only September and not earlier this year when it was reported that most Ford, Chevy and Ram dealers had ZERO trucks on the lot.  The timing of the chip shortages is different for each mfr.

 

Based on Cox Automotive data for the first half of 2021, the pattern regarding "days of supply" numbers for LD full size pickup trucks is that Tundra consistently had the lowest (below 20) and Ram 1500 consistently had the highest (40 or more). The GM trucks tended to be on the low side but higher than Tundra. Similarly, F-150 tended to be on the high side but lower than Ram 1500. Titan had more variation, it had relatively high numbers early in 2021 but dwindled significantly by late spring and early summer.

 

"Days of supply" numbers for full size LD pickups in general though have been much, much lower in 2021 than in previous years. As mentioned earlier in this thread, days of supply for the segment overall in July 2020 was 69 days, with all except Tundra having at least 50 days supply. Graph below is for July 2020.

 

June-2020-truck-full-size-truck-inventor

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Please explain why this wonderful idea didn't sell enough to keep it in the line...

 

Sure thing twintornados sir. Though the 22R-TE in Hilux truck produced more peak torque than any of the V6 engines used by Toyota's competitors back in 1986-1987 (Nissan D21 Hardbody, Ford Ranger, Chevy S-10, GMC S-15, Dodge Dakota), the engine had the lag and nonlinear power delivery that characterizes turbo engines. These issues were a bigger deal 35 years ago compared to today. As a result, Toyota truck customers clamored for a normally aspirated V6 engine.

 

Toyota responded by replacing the 22R-TE with the 3VZ-E 3.0L V6 in 1988. 3VZ-E was both more powerful and smoother than 22R-TE. 

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On 9/28/2021 at 11:19 AM, blwnsmoke said:

Oooofff..  could the snout be any bigger?  Looks like they were trying to compete with Chevy.

 

What a butt ugly truck.

 

 

 

 

2022-toyota-tundra-platinum-003-1631894197.jpg

 

I agree, this design language is very similar to GM.  It is not my style at all, too may edges, too many sharp harsh body lines.  Not to mention all the cheap black plastic parts on the outside.  After 8 new chevy pickups, I ordered a super duty because there is now way i'd drop 80g on a truck and hate how it looked.

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On 10/20/2021 at 4:00 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Yes and no. Demand for full size LD pickup trucks from any manufacturer - Toyota, Ford, GM, Ram, Nissan - has been and continues to be extremely strong. However, Toyota Tundra is the LD pickup truck model with the lowest days supply at 10, making it the model that's most difficult for new retail pickup truck buyers to get without a sold order.  Prospective customers who want to buy a new LD full size pickup truck from dealer inventory ASAP will have a greater chance of success by going to a Ford, GM, Ram, or Nissan dealer versus Toyota. But even then, they may have to do a sold order or join a waiting list.

 

Toyota Tacoma is in the same situation, only 10 days supply according to Cox.

Some of that is likely due model change over for the 22.  Toyota is just now facing chip supply problems Ford was facing much earlier.  Ford started getting more chips with the Renesas plant back at full production and cleared out some builds waiting on chips to restock depleted inventory.  Ford, GM, and Ram have historically had higher days supply.  They have more small rural dealers with low turnover and much wider product mix to keep in stock.

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On 10/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Sure thing twintornados sir. Though the 22R-TE in Hilux truck produced more peak torque than any of the V6 engines used by Toyota's competitors back in 1986-1987 (Nissan D21 Hardbody, Ford Ranger, Chevy S-10, GMC S-15, Dodge Dakota), the engine had the lag and nonlinear power delivery that characterizes turbo engines. These issues were a bigger deal 35 years ago compared to today. As a result, Toyota truck customers clamored for a normally aspirated V6 engine.

 

Toyota responded by replacing the 22R-TE with the 3VZ-E 3.0L V6 in 1988. 3VZ-E was both more powerful and smoother than 22R-TE. 

 

So, not so legendary after all....

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45 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

So, not so legendary after all....

 

22R-TE became legendary because of its durability and it's not unusual for those engines to surpass 500k miles without a rebuild. 3VZ-E wasn't as durable, past the 100k mile mark that engine had head gasket and connecting rod issues.

 

3UR-FE V8 engine in the 2nd gen Tundra is also legendary for reliability and durability. It remains to be seen if V35A-FTS V6 turbo in 2022 Tundra achieves that.

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On 9/21/2021 at 7:41 PM, JX1 said:

 

I really championed this forum for being maturer and smarter than the rest out there, but some of what I see unfortunately goes against this ideal.

 

I am hoping that enough of us remember this and try to be better, as there's no reason for any of us, to be echoing a Disqus comment section.

We're not being serious man, it's just some playful ribbing. Most of us don't really have any gripes with the Tundra, it's just everyone joking around. Kinda like how most fans of competing sports teams don't actually hate each other.

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18 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

22R-TE became legendary because of its durability and it's not unusual for those engines to surpass 500k miles without a rebuild. 3VZ-E wasn't as durable, past the 100k mile mark that engine had head gasket and connecting rod issues.

 

3UR-FE V8 engine in the 2nd gen Tundra is also legendary for reliability and durability. It remains to be seen if V35A-FTS V6 turbo in 2022 Tundra achieves that.

 

Yet, with all those "legendary" designs, Toyota cannot get any traction in the full size truck market. What is an interesting detail in Toyota's latest foray is the independent rear suspension that was added to the mix. I have suggested for a couple of years now when RAM brought coil rear springs into the market that Ford should just create a lighter duty version of F150 and slide the Expedition IRS system under it. When you get to higher GVW ratings, transition back to a solid rear axle. 

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27 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Toyota cannot get any traction in the full size truck market. 

 

Yes sir. That's Toyota's fault. They managed to nearly double sales of Tundra between the introduction of the 1st gen in 2000 and the 2nd gen in 2007 by having a frequent and regular update cadence. But from that point they got lazy and only did 1 major refresh and 1 minor refresh until the 3rd gen Tundra was announced this year. Not surprisingly, Tundra sales in the U.S. flatlined between 100k and 119k units from 2012 till 2020.

 

Toyota is being lazy again with 2022 Tundra. No announcement of a BEV version just as the pickup truck market in the U.S. transitions to all electric.

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On 10/22/2021 at 5:43 PM, DeluxeStang said:

We're not being serious man, it's just some playful ribbing. Most of us don't really have any gripes with the Tundra, it's just everyone joking around. Kinda like how most fans of competing sports teams don't actually hate each other.

Maybe some of us thankfully are just having fun, but for some folks too, Toyota can't do nothing right and it's almost downright personal.?

 

I prefer Fords of course (cuz Bronco/Stang GT/Raptor) but I try to look at it from all angles.

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Saw the new Tundra in person yesterday - The front is just as bad in person as pictures.  Interior looked decent on the turntable.  They do still have a HUGE center hump in the rear floorboard, and no attempt at under-rear seat storage (the area under the rear seat was enclosed on the model displayed.

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2 hours ago, JX1 said:

Maybe some of us thankfully are just having fun, but for some folks too, Toyota can't do nothing right and it's almost downright personal.?

 

I prefer Fords of course (cuz Bronco/Stang GT/Raptor) but I try to look at it from all angles.

Exactly, I'm not a huge fan of Toyota"s current designs, and I wish they would be a bit more innovative with their product line-up. But I can still admit they make reliable and long lasting products for a mostly affordable price. So I can see why people like them, again, even if they aren't my favorite brand personally.

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On 10/23/2021 at 6:47 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir. That's Toyota's fault. They managed to nearly double sales of Tundra between the introduction of the 1st gen in 2000 and the 2nd gen in 2007 by having a frequent and regular update cadence. But from that point they got lazy and only did 1 major refresh and 1 minor refresh until the 3rd gen Tundra was announced this year. Not surprisingly, Tundra sales in the U.S. flatlined between 100k and 119k units from 2012 till 2020.

 

Toyota is being lazy again with 2022 Tundra. No announcement of a BEV version just as the pickup truck market in the U.S. transitions to all electric.

Don't disagree-but they will probably sell somewhere north of 100,000 units once things normalize.

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4 hours ago, BoomerSooner said:

Sure, the front is just gross.  But I am kind of envious of Toyota's full-width, drop-down, powered, rear window.  I think that's a cool feature and wouldn't be ashamed if Ford stole it. Beats the heck out of the little postage-stamp-sized window Ford uses.  

We won’t see it unless Ford removes the little bump out for the rear window that was added on the ‘97 to give more room.  The new rear window is ridiculously small, though.

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On 10/25/2021 at 8:57 PM, CKNSLS said:

Don't disagree-but they will probably sell somewhere north of 100,000 units once things normalize.

 

With Tacoma production going to Mexico opening up increased production of Tundra in Texas, I suspect Tundra sales in future will be closer to 200,000/year than previous 100,000. 

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28 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

With Tacoma production going to Mexico opening up increased production of Tundra in Texas, I suspect Tundra sales in future will be closer to 200,000/year than previous 100,000. 


I didn’t think Tundra sales were limited by production capacity.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I didn’t think Tundra sales were limited by production capacity.

 

TMMTX, where Tundra is assembled, has an annual production capacity of 208,000 units. In past years, Tundra production was constrained by Tacoma production at the same plant. However in 2020, Tacoma production started at TMMGT in Guanajuato. By the end of this year, Tacoma production at TMMTX will wind down. At that point TMMGT and TMMBC (Baja California) will be the only plants that assemble Tacoma. That will free up capacity for additional Tundra production, and eventually next gen Sequoia, at TMMTX

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

TMMTX, where Tundra is assembled, has an annual production capacity of 208,000 units. In past years, Tundra production was constrained by Tacoma production at the same plant. However in 2020, Tacoma production started at TMMGT in Guanajuato. By the end of this year, Tacoma production at TMMTX will wind down. At that point TMMGT and TMMBC (Baja California) will be the only plants that assemble Tacoma. That will free up capacity for additional Tundra production, and eventually next gen Sequoia, at TMMTX

 

They built the San Antonio plant specifically for Tundra way back in '07.  It didn't sell enough for its capacity, which is why they added Tacoma there in the first place.

 

I don't see the new Tundra changing that - it may increase some, but long term it'll likely fall again.

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4 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

With Tacoma production going to Mexico opening up increased production of Tundra in Texas, I suspect Tundra sales in future will be closer to 200,000/year than previous 100,000. 

 

Maybe-but there is nothing ground breaking with this new model.  It will sell for those who want a Toyota-but there is nothing here to make one switch brands if they are a "die hard" for whatever make they are driving. 

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35 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

Maybe-but there is nothing ground breaking with this new model.  It will sell for those who want a Toyota-but there is nothing here to make one switch brands if they are a "die hard" for whatever make they are driving. 


Isn’t that pretty much true for all full size half ton pickups (except maybe Nissan)?  Objective differences are minor and it comes down to brand preference, subjective preferences on design and features and pricing.  IMO.

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


Isn’t that pretty much true for all full size half ton pickups (except maybe Nissan)?  Objective differences are minor and it comes down to brand preference, subjective preferences on design and features and pricing.  IMO.

Not sure. Many Silverado owners have been have been complaining about the interior verses the better interior of both Ford and RAM.  How many would have looked elsewhere if there was no update? Also, you had some owners who didn't like the "side burn" air dams of the 2019-2021Silverados. Many citing that reason for not upgrading. That has been addressed as well. AS far as the Tundra-the biggest complaint was abysmal mpg. That has been addressed with the new turbo motor.  Ford just had a new F-150 come out the last year or two. Of course-as long as who has inventory- pretty much regardless of the name on the hood-is going to sell trucks these days-until the "chip thing" rectifies itself-it's hard to see how all of this will play out.

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