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Ford Oshkosh JV, USPS


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Reuters
 
WASHINGTON -- Oshkosh Defense said Tuesday it will build next-generation U.S. Postal Service delivery vehicles in Spartanburg, S.C., and expects to hire over 1,000 employees to do so.
 
USPS awarded a multibillion-dollar, 10-year contract to Oshkosh Defense, a subsidiary of Oshkosh Corp., in February. The contract could be worth more than $6 billion in total.
 
It allows for the delivery over 10 years of between 50,000 and 165,000 vehicles, with a mix of internal combustion-powered and battery-electric models.
 
Last week, EV company Workhorse Group filed a legal challenge to the decision after USPS rejected its bid.
 
Workhorse had proposed building an all-electric vehicle fleet for USPS, and has the support of many U.S. lawmakers.
 
Ford's role
 
Ford Motor Co., meanwhile, said it will provide engines, transmissions and other parts for the vehicles.
 
The USPS plans to buy a mix of electric and gasoline-powered Postal Service vehicles. Ford will provide parts for both the electric battery and internal combustion engine versions, including engines and transmissions made in Michigan, along with suspensions and other components, Ford said, declining to release financial terms.
 
Oshkosh Defense plans to repurpose a warehouse to fulfill the contract, and production is expected to begin in mid-2023.
 
USPS said last week "pre-production design, tooling and facility preparation are proceeding on schedule, with the first (next generation delivery vehicles) estimated to appear on carrier routes in 2023."
 
EV fleet
 
Postmaster General Louis DeJoy has committed to at least 10 percent of the fleet being electric, but he said in a letter in March to lawmakers that with government assistance the USPS could commit to making a majority of the fleet electric within 10 years.
 
He added that the USPS needs about $8 billion to electrify the new fleet to the "maximum extent" feasible.
 
President Joe Biden and some lawmakers in Congress have called for government funding to speed USPS's transition to more EVs.
 
New USPS vehicles will include air conditioning and heating, improved ergonomics, and advanced vehicle safety technology including airbags and 360-degree cameras.
 
Most current delivery vehicles are at least 25 years old and do not have air conditioning or modern safety features.
 
A 2020 report said USPS spent $706.2 million in maintenance costs for 141,057 delivery vehicles.
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2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Ford will provide parts for both the electric battery and internal combustion engine versions, including engines and transmissions made in Michigan, along with suspensions and other components, Ford said, declining to release financial terms.

Sounds like they've found a use for Romeo after they drop the 6.2.

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5 hours ago, twintornados said:

Yup, sounds like the Transit will be available as a stripped chassis that I posted in the other thread.

Good pick up,

Ford Europe has been making RHD stripped chassis for quite a while so all the parts needed are available,

It would be a perfect solution for the two partners.

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TT and JP- You both seem to be inferring this USPS vehicle will involve the Transit.  As I  read  that press release, Ford will basically be providing the power train.  Oshkosh will be producing  the purpose built vehicle-at least that is what I'm reading.

 

Not to say that a stripped Transit might fit into USPS plans, as I read this, aIl will be the Ford powered Oshkosh that pulls up to my mailbox.

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Until Ford clarifies what kind of engine and transmission it is providing for Oshkosh, we don't know how much of Transit chassis has survived the engineering process that resulted in the final Oshkosh USPS van. But we know the mule and prototype were both built using Transit chassis and it the winning van was originally a joint Ford-Oshkosh bid.

 

It could very well be the case that Ford intended to use the USPS contract to launch Transit stripped chassis in the US but the USPS contract has exclusivity clause that will prevent Ford from selling the stripped chassis to someone else if it had won the bid. So Ford "dropped out" and Oshkosh became the sole contractor with US Govt. That means Ford is free to sell Transit stripped chassis to anyone, including of course Oshkosh. 

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4 hours ago, bzcat said:

Until Ford clarifies what kind of engine and transmission it is providing for Oshkosh, we don't know how much of Transit chassis has survived the engineering process that resulted in the final Oshkosh USPS van. But we know the mule and prototype were both built using Transit chassis and it the winning van was originally a joint Ford-Oshkosh bid.

 

It could very well be the case that Ford intended to use the USPS contract to launch Transit stripped chassis in the US but the USPS contract has exclusivity clause that will prevent Ford from selling the stripped chassis to someone else if it had won the bid. So Ford "dropped out" and Oshkosh became the sole contractor with US Govt. That means Ford is free to sell Transit stripped chassis to anyone, including of course Oshkosh. 

Now that’s clever because USPS is now hinting that BEVs could play a bigger role in the future if the funding comes through. Workman has sour grapes because it thought the contract was a slam dunk, Ford’s involvement eases the development cost burden for Oshkosh and puts them over the top.

 

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21 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Postmaster General Louis DeJoy has committed to at least 10 percent of the fleet being electric, but he said in a letter in March to lawmakers that with government assistance the USPS could commit to making a majority of the fleet electric within 10 years.

He's got a point. USPS delivery routes aren't usually that long, and the delivery vehicles are parked at the barn overnight, so they should be a prime candidate for an almost entirely BEV delivery fleet. I just wonder how much the infrastructure costs will be; they shouldn't be all that much, but remember that an elephant is simply a mouse built to gov't spec...

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2 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

He's got a point. USPS delivery routes aren't usually that long, and the delivery vehicles are parked at the barn overnight, so they should be a prime candidate for an almost entirely BEV delivery fleet. I just wonder how much the infrastructure costs will be; they shouldn't be all that much, but remember that an elephant is simply a mouse built to gov't spec...

Sooner-I didn't say that but it is  a good point?

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1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Sooner-I didn't say that but it is  a good point?

Yeah, this "smart" editor isn't exactly "smart" on this iPad. It's easy enough to accidentally erase more than you want, but God help you if you want to get rid of the attribution because you just want to quote something in a post that the poster was quoting.

 

Try saying that three times fast.

 

I miss the old not-quite-so-smart editor, where you could at least turn off the WYSIWYG editing and fix the raw BBCode...

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There are allegations that the bidding process was 'fixed' at the last minute and testing was incomplete.  Also it appears that some insider trading may have occurred with very suspicious timing.  Might all be B.S. but it's heading to court, so we shall see.

 

Current Administration appears to be upset that the USPS is backpedaling in their commitment to zero emissions vehicles (only 10% will be BEV's?).  Seems to me a lot of fleets have more aggressive ZEV programs than the USPS does.  

 

This is by no means over........        

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11 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

There are allegations that the bidding process was 'fixed' at the last minute and testing was incomplete.  Also it appears that some insider trading may have occurred with very suspicious timing.  Might all be B.S. but it's heading to court, so we shall see.

 

Current Administration appears to be upset that the USPS is backpedaling in their commitment to zero emissions vehicles (only 10% will be BEV's?).  Seems to me a lot of fleets have more aggressive ZEV programs than the USPS does.  

 

This is by no means over........        

 

Oshkosh could flip the switch and say they'll all be EVs then.  I'd imagine there are certain parts of the country though that an EV isn't realistic right now for USPS.

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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Oshkosh could flip the switch and say they'll all be EVs then.  I'd imagine there are certain parts of the country though that an EV isn't realistic right now for USPS.

 

That's a valid point about EV's having operational problems in some areas, but far more than 10% of the USPS's new vehicles can be BEV's with no impact on service.

 

As far as Oshkosh "flipping the switch" and making them all or mostly BEV's, that topic is actually one of the contentions Workhorse has with Oshkosh wining the USPS bit.  Supposedly Oshkosh did not submit an operational BEV version of their vehicle for testing.  Some are raising the question if Oshkosh really can produce a BEV version of their vehicle that meets USPS requirements, and are saying Oshkosh's claims that their ICE vehicle can be easily and economically converted to BEV may not be feasible.  That's not taking into account whether the USPS actually would convert ICE vehicles to BEV at some point if they had the opportunity.

 

My understanding is the Workhorse BEV postal vehicle did pass all USPS requirements.  When it was announced  the contract was going to Oshkosh I was a little surprised, but nonetheless thought Workhorse's lawsuit was 'sour grapes'.  Some contend that without the USPS contract Workhorse's future is questionable as well (they blew a lot of money on a ridiculous drone package delivery system).  Oshkosh being a large government contractor (lobbyists) is not going unnoticed either.  

 

   

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

That's a valid point about EV's having operational problems in some areas, but far more than 10% of the USPS's new vehicles can be BEV's with no impact on service.

 

As far as Oshkosh "flipping the switch" and making them all or mostly BEV's, that topic is actually one of the contentions Workhorse has with Oshkosh wining the USPS bit.  Supposedly Oshkosh did not submit an operational BEV version of their vehicle for testing.  Some are raising the question if Oshkosh really can produce a BEV version of their vehicle that meets USPS requirements, and are saying Oshkosh's claims that their ICE vehicle can be easily and economically converted to BEV may not be feasible.  That's not taking into account whether the USPS actually would convert ICE vehicles to BEV at some point if they had the opportunity.

 

My understanding is the Workhorse BEV postal vehicle did pass all USPS requirements.  When it was announced  the contract was going to Oshkosh I was a little surprised, but nonetheless thought Workhorse's lawsuit was 'sour grapes'.  Some contend that without the USPS contract Workhorse's future is questionable as well (they blew a lot of money on a ridiculous drone package delivery system).  Oshkosh being a large government contractor (lobbyists) is not going unnoticed either.  

 

   

There were two transit based vehicles demonstrated to USPS, I suspect that

one had the EV Transit mechanicals with 1.0 litre range extender ICE.

While not a true EV, that kind of vehicle would be perfect for last mile deliveries.

Edited by jpd80
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14 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

My understanding is the Workhorse BEV postal vehicle did pass all USPS requirements.  When it was announced  the contract was going to Oshkosh I was a little surprised, but nonetheless thought Workhorse's lawsuit was 'sour grapes'.  Some contend that without the USPS contract Workhorse's future is questionable as well (they blew a lot of money on a ridiculous drone package delivery system).  Oshkosh being a large government contractor (lobbyists) is not going unnoticed either.  

 

7Mary3 sir, what are your thoughts about the impact of Workhorse Group's complaint to the schedule for starting production of NGDV by Oshkosh? Is it likely that the United States Federal Court of Claims will just toss out Workhorse's complaint soon?

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Workhorse's lawsuit is standard run of mill nuisance lawsuit filed by companies that lost out on Federal contracts. Workhorse didn't sue Oshkosh so there is no reason for Oshkosh to even consider it... Oshkosh has a Federal contract and they have to proceed with procurement to meet its obligations. 

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20 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

That's a valid point about EV's having operational problems in some areas, but far more than 10% of the USPS's new vehicles can be BEV's with no impact on service.

 

As far as Oshkosh "flipping the switch" and making them all or mostly BEV's, that topic is actually one of the contentions Workhorse has with Oshkosh wining the USPS bit.  Supposedly Oshkosh did not submit an operational BEV version of their vehicle for testing.  Some are raising the question if Oshkosh really can produce a BEV version of their vehicle that meets USPS requirements, and are saying Oshkosh's claims that their ICE vehicle can be easily and economically converted to BEV may not be feasible.  That's not taking into account whether the USPS actually would convert ICE vehicles to BEV at some point if they had the opportunity.

 

My understanding is the Workhorse BEV postal vehicle did pass all USPS requirements.  When it was announced  the contract was going to Oshkosh I was a little surprised, but nonetheless thought Workhorse's lawsuit was 'sour grapes'.  Some contend that without the USPS contract Workhorse's future is questionable as well (they blew a lot of money on a ridiculous drone package delivery system).  Oshkosh being a large government contractor (lobbyists) is not going unnoticed either.  

 

   

 

I understand what you're saying, but if they're working with Ford/using Transit-based parts and EV parts already exist, it's probably not as big of a step as it's being made out to be.

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3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Supposedly it was going to based on a Transit, then found out it wasn't.  So I hadn't read recently what Ford's contribution was going to be.  Why can't you win a bid these days without getting sued?  Baloney!

 

Oshkosh names South Carolina site for USPS vehicle production | FleetOwner
 

 

This quote points strongly at Oshkosh using an existing platform that is already engineered for either ICE or EV - i.e. Transit

 

Oshkosh Corp. President, CEO and Director John Pfeifer clarified the BEV commitment during the company’s subsequent earnings call with investment analysts, and emphasized the company has the ability to provide both EVs and gasoline-powered units (convertible to battery-electric) in whatever mix USPS wants—and is able to pay for. “We can do 100% electric vehicles from Day 1. If the US Postal Service came to us tomorrow and said, ‘we've got the funding to do 100% electric from 2023’, we can do it.”

Edited by bzcat
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5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Supposedly it was going to based on a Transit, then found out it wasn't.  So I hadn't read recently what Ford's contribution was going to be.  Why can't you win a bid these days without getting sued?  Baloney!

 

Oshkosh names South Carolina site for USPS vehicle production | FleetOwner
 

 

If anything chassis/power trains would be sent there for assembly. 

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On 6/25/2021 at 11:35 AM, bzcat said:

Workhorse's lawsuit is standard run of mill nuisance lawsuit filed by companies that lost out on Federal contracts. Workhorse didn't sue Oshkosh so there is no reason for Oshkosh to even consider it... Oshkosh has a Federal contract and they have to proceed with procurement to meet its obligations. 

Once the courts get involved, lots of things could go sideways. Microsoft and DoD are dealing with this on the JEDI contract that Microsoft won; Amazon has had it tied up with litigation long enough that there's speculation that DoD may just cancel the whole thing. 

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