Mirage Flatter Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, Robin Hood said: I know the older diesels would not slow the truck down... I sure can't agree with that. You can apply engine braking with any engine by downshifting the transmission, manual or automatic, not just with an exhaust brake. And a diesel engine will always be more effective just by virtue of higher compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 26 minutes ago, Mirage Flatter said: I sure can't agree with that. You can apply engine braking with any engine by downshifting the transmission, manual or automatic, not just with an exhaust brake. And a diesel engine will always be more effective just by virtue of higher compression. Without an exhaust brake a Diesel has little engine braking regardless of gear because it has no throttle body. That’s why they invented exhaust brakes and Jake brakes to provide a similar function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said: Watched on YouTube where these guys test trucks for time uphill and brake applications down Ikes pass the gauntlet ( pretty good videos in my opinion) Their F350 drw 30k 5 brake applications. F250 4.30 srw 7.3 18k 9 brake applications. No comparison Will you post a link to the video. I can't seem to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadstickpoindexter Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I can say that with the 2020 6.7 F250 I rented, going down a 10% grade with almost 6000 lb of camper behind me I never had to touch the brake unless the people in front of me were sporadically hitting theirs. I did have it in tow mode and had the exhaust brake on. That was one of the moments that made me decide I wanted a diesel over gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZahn Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Honestly, as a former diesel mechanic I don’t want to look at a Diesel engine ever again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUEC135ELEVATOR Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Robin Hood said: Will you post a link to the video. I can't seem to find it. I would be happy to do so. Does this forum allow posting YouTube videos I don't want to post something if it's not allowed. And I will be honest I did not read through any of the rules or regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUEC135ELEVATOR Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Search these titles. Doing it this way just in case YouTube links are not allowed. I'm the new guy I don't want to get in trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetremor Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 3 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said: I can say that with the 2020 6.7 F250 I rented, going down a 10% grade with almost 6000 lb of camper behind me I never had to touch the brake unless the people in front of me were sporadically hitting theirs. I did have it in tow mode and had the exhaust brake on. That was one of the moments that made me decide I wanted a diesel over gas. So we are talking about the 7.3L use of an abrasive product meant to wear at lets assume twice the rate that the diesel would have. Even if someone towing 10K lbs everyday and had to buy 2 times more brake pads it doesn't add up to the premium initial capital or the long term emission system woes I've heard so much about so early on the adoption of "clean diesels." I take my bet on the old cast iron gasser. That's unless you need the extra high capacity towing of 18K to 20K loads. I would reassess based on my needs at that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, Moosetremor said: So we are talking about the 7.3L use of an abrasive product meant to wear at lets assume twice the rate that the diesel would have. Even if someone towing 10K lbs everyday and had to buy 2 times more brake pads it doesn't add up to the premium initial capital or the long term emission system woes I've heard so much about so early on the adoption of "clean diesels." I take my bet on the old cast iron gasser. That's unless you need the extra high capacity towing of 18K to 20K loads. I would reassess based on my needs at that point. For me...stopping power is as important as towing power when pulling a load. It isn't just about the wear on the brake pads. When you can use the engine to stop the truck you have a lot more control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Flatter Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 hours ago, akirby said: Without an exhaust brake a Diesel has little engine braking regardless of gear because it has no throttle body. That’s why they invented exhaust brakes and Jake brakes to provide a similar function. So, when pulling our 32 ft. stock trailer fully loaded with cattle behind our Cummins with no engine brake, if I'm coming to an intersection and needing to stop or turn, I might just as well shift the 5 speed to neutral, rather than using the engine as well as the brakes on both truck and trailer to slow or stop, because that high compression diesel is going to offer me little help anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadstickpoindexter Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 36 minutes ago, Moosetremor said: So we are talking about the 7.3L use of an abrasive product meant to wear at lets assume twice the rate that the diesel would have. Even if someone towing 10K lbs everyday and had to buy 2 times more brake pads it doesn't add up to the premium initial capital or the long term emission system woes I've heard so much about so early on the adoption of "clean diesels." I take my bet on the old cast iron gasser. That's unless you need the extra high capacity towing of 18K to 20K loads. I would reassess based on my needs at that point. That's great. I'll point out though that I wasn't trying to compare the cost of brake pads to an engine, that's absurd! I was simply sharing my experiences about using the exhaust brake on a diesel when going down some steep grades... which by the way was excellent! So I'll stick to the diesel... if it ever gets here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcintx Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 5 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said: I can say that with the 2020 6.7 F250 I rented, going down a 10% grade with almost 6000 lb of camper behind me I never had to touch the brake unless the people in front of me were sporadically hitting theirs. I did have it in tow mode and had the exhaust brake on. That was one of the moments that made me decide I wanted a diesel over gas. 2 hours ago, Moosetremor said: So we are talking about the 7.3L use of an abrasive product meant to wear at lets assume twice the rate that the diesel would have. Even if someone towing 10K lbs everyday and had to buy 2 times more brake pads it doesn't add up to the premium initial capital or the long term emission system woes I've heard so much about so early on the adoption of "clean diesels." I take my bet on the old cast iron gasser. That's unless you need the extra high capacity towing of 18K to 20K loads. I would reassess based on my needs at that point. But it is not all about cost. For me the ease of the towing / driving experience is worth the extra money and some would say headache of the diesel engine. That is why not only am I going with a 6.7 again I am also adding wheels on the back. Going from a 2016 F250 to a 2022 F450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboyles2002 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Robin Hood said: How many mile on your 6.7 and what kind of issues/cost did you have? Def pump at 60k def pump again at 120k hpdp at 150k (this hurt the most) now at 170k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 9:23 PM, IUEC135ELEVATOR said: . I don't need a thousand foot pounds of torque, 475 w/4.30 is plenty to haul my equipment trailer rarely, my car trailer, or my travel trailer. ( some people may need thousand foot pounds of torque, I don't). With this combination, do you find the 10 speed transmission overly "busy" ? How about towing vs not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I've been considering switching to the 7.3 gasser on my next truck, but I just got back from towing my 14k fiver through the Rockies in Colorado. The exhaust brake was amazing! Not to mention, the power of the 6.7L, I don't see myself switching back to gas. Now, if there was an EcoBoost or hybrid version of the gasser in the Super Duty, then I may have a tougher decision to make. With the exhaust brake on, coming down Pikes Peek, I had to use the accelerator more than the brake pedal! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch8628 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I honestly never considered the 7.3L when ordering. I've had the 7.3 diesel, and now the 6.0 for the past 7 years. Couple family members have 6.7's of the 17+ variety and they love them. I figured since I'll be getting a warranty to stick with the 6.7 for the power, mileage, and to me cool factor. To each their own, i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUEC135ELEVATOR Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said: With this combination, do you find the 10 speed transmission overly "busy" ? How about towing vs not ? I just ordered it...I don't have it yet nor have I ever even drove a truck with a 7.3. I do know that it will be plenty. My current trucks are a 19 f350 4wd dwr super cab 10' lift gate utility bed 6.2. ( which I have had exactly 6500 lbs in the bed including a thousand pounds of tools) legal, not even close??? And my baby....a 2000 chevy k3500 srw crew cab 7.4L 454 4.11(bored stroked programmed ect ect) Also HAD 19 f450 flat bed diesel and a 2018 f250 6.2 4x4. They all had thier purpose and did thier job. The 22 f350 7.3 will do everything I need. Edited July 20, 2021 by IUEC135ELEVATOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 13 hours ago, Mirage Flatter said: So, when pulling our 32 ft. stock trailer fully loaded with cattle behind our Cummins with no engine brake, if I'm coming to an intersection and needing to stop or turn, I might just as well shift the 5 speed to neutral, rather than using the engine as well as the brakes on both truck and trailer to slow or stop, because that high compression diesel is going to offer me little help anyway? Im not a diesel expert but without an exhaust or Jake brake there is very little resistance to slow it down - just friction. Exhaust brake creates back pressure similar to a gas engine closing the throttle body (which is vacuum but gets the same result - the engine has to work much harder). Jake brakes open the exhaust valves to achieve the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCM Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 6 hours ago, fordmantpw said: I've been considering switching to the 7.3 gasser on my next truck, but I just got back from towing my 14k fiver through the Rockies in Colorado. The exhaust brake was amazing! Not to mention, the power of the 6.7L, I don't see myself switching back to gas. Now, if there was an EcoBoost or hybrid version of the gasser in the Super Duty, then I may have a tougher decision to make. With the exhaust brake on, coming down Pikes Peek, I had to use the accelerator more than the brake pedal! https://fordauthority.com/2021/05/ford-working-on-twin-turbo-godzilla-v8-exclusive/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetremor Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 15 hours ago, aboyles2002 said: Def pump at 60k def pump again at 120k hpdp at 150k (this hurt the most) now at 170k Gulp... What was the costs of those repair bills?... Anything under warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, ORCM said: https://fordauthority.com/2021/05/ford-working-on-twin-turbo-godzilla-v8-exclusive/ I'm not getting my hopes up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboyles2002 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Moosetremor said: Gulp... What was the costs of those repair bills?... Anything under warranty? Nothing under warranty. I did get Ford to cover part of the first DEF pump after I pitched a fit to someone at corporate. That was actually at 58k. Total bill for DEF pump is about $1k. Second time DEF pump failed I deleted it, but that also cost about $1k for the delete kit and tuner/labor. HPDP wasnt so easy to swallow - $8,000. That was the straw that broke my back. Now if I was towing something really heavy or used my truck to make a living towing something everyday I might of ordered another diesel, but I just tow my 12,000lb 5th wheel to the lake and back and to where I hunt at so I dont tow that heavy. If I did get a diesel again I wouldn't keep it past warranty. FYI - anything emissions isn't covered under the 100k mile warranty. That includes the DEF pump. That is only covered for 36k I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc2022 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 For anyone commenting I hope you have driven both the 7.3 and the 6.7! After being a long time diesel guy who admittedly doesn't tow often but need the bed length, I have to say the weight savings of the 7.3 is great. Much lighter to maneuver around as a DD and the ride isn't so springy. Power comparison unladen is Lighter weight with less TQ = heavier weight with more TQ. Just one opinion, but I won't be going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffhunta Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I mean, how could not go with an engine code named Godzilla! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I think you either want, and are willing to pay for the luxury of the diesel or you don't. I do not see much middle ground. Almost nobody actually "needs" the 6.7 but there are valid reasons to want it. Same with the 7.3, plenty of valid reason to want that choice. I have owned a bunch of TD trucks and just do not want the complications that come with the new ones. The emissions systems are exceedingly complex, DEF is a pain, regens and EGR are simply not good for the longevity of the engine, though Ford has done well mitigating these. The 7.3 will be mainly a daily driver for me. I will plow snow with it in the winter so the reduced weight on the front axle is a big plus. I will pull some trailers, likely some heavy loads from time to time but the 7.3 4.30 set up is good for 20k lbs in the F350 srw I have ordered. Saving $8000 up front is a pretty big incentive and having the baddest gas engine offered in a light truck today is a bonus. I can't justify the diesels additional up front costs, additional running costs, the general hassle of finding diesel pumps at other than truck stops, the complex emissions. None of that adds up as a plus when I do not need 1000 lb/ft or torque to do the work I need done. No doubt they are impressive, my buddy has a '15 tuned and deleted but I still prefer the sound and feel of a big gas V8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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