HOLY SHNIKES..TTAC Opinion on Tesla CT

[jcartwright99]

TTAC

 

Just to preface, full size trucks aren't my thing. I live in a densely populated urban area with lots crowded city driving. I may possibly get a Bronco, Ranger, BS, or Maverick in a few years. I have spent most of my life around full sized trucks living in SE Michigan so I have a pretty good idea why people buy them but am no expert. Not a huge fan of Tesla the company or Musk to be honest. The vehicles, when built well, seem to perform good though for the most part and the electric tech is innovative.

 

Which brings me to this opinion piece by TTAC. Now, I don't know if the Cyber Truck will flop or not. I can say that the styling is polarizing but those lofty performance metrics look great on paper. I wonder if it's current design will even be legal because it is shaped like a metal wedge. If I were to guess, I think most full size truck buyers will not be easily convinced to switch to electric. So who will buy the CT? I think current Tesla owners will buy the CT. I'm sure there will be conquest but what percent?

 

What particularity got me was the tweet from TTAC for this story. Immediately after it was tweeted, the zealots (some paid and some not) came out in full force spewing lots of rubbish. Go ahead and waste some time and read a few. Tesla/Musk is like a cult for some. Which is weird to me. I like Ford but you will hear me throw them under the bus for doing dumb shit. I've had some really good Ford products and some really bad (86 Ford Tempo). I just can't see myself ever being so motivated to defend a product that doesn't exist, against other products that aren't on sale yet either....all because of tweet that says it could be a flop? 

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

I just can't see myself ever being so motivated to defend a product that doesn't exist, against other products that aren't on sale yet either....all because of tweet that says it could be a flop? 

 

The issue is with the internet itself...its far too easy to act like a fool without real retribution for your actions.

 

People have a hard time keeping their mouth shut...I know there has been several times I've been typing out a response to something and say to myself...why am I doing this? and don't finish it. 

 

A good friend of mine said to me one day- The internet gives the wrong people a megaphone to shout out their thoughts. Its part of the reason you seem to see a lot of the extremes of both sides getting so much attention and it makes you start doubting your own sanity after a while. 

[tbone]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The issue is with the internet itself...its far too easy to act like a fool without real retribution for your actions.

 

People have a hard time keeping their mouth shut...I know there has been several times I've been typing out a response to something and say to myself...why am I doing this? and don't finish it. 

 

A good friend of mine said to me one day- The internet gives the wrong people a megaphone to shout out their thoughts. Its part of the reason you seem to see a lot of the extremes of both sides getting so much attention and it makes you start doubting your own sanity after a while. 

This sums up the state of affairs nicely. It’s unfortunate.  

[LookingToBuyAFord]

Elon Musk admits Tesla’s Cybertruck could flop

[sullynd]

How cool! A car with no door handles! Revolutionary. 
 

Goes out to his Mach-E… Huh, no handles. 

[sullynd]

The push button is awesome by the way. I wasn’t sure I’d like it. Will be interesting to see how it does in the winter. 
 

The thing I’m curious about with Tesla is the push for extreme performance.  My Mach-E is fast enough for me. It’s too fast for my wife. She’s not comfortable driving it.  I wouldn’t want a truck that is faster than it. I certainly wouldn’t want a sedan that goes 0-60 in under two seconds. People knock the ID4 because it doesn’t have the usual “punch” that a BEV gets you, but it’s still faster than a similar VW ICE. I wonder if they don’t know the market better. 

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, sullynd said:

The push button is awesome by the way. I wasn’t sure I’d like it. Will be interesting to see how it does in the winter. 
 

The thing I’m curious about with Tesla is the push for extreme performance.  My Mach-E is fast enough for me. It’s too fast for my wife. She’s not comfortable driving it.  I wouldn’t want a truck that is faster than it. I certainly wouldn’t want a sedan that goes 0-60 in under two seconds. People knock the ID4 because it doesn’t have the usual “punch” that a BEV gets you, but it’s still faster than a similar VW ICE. I wonder if they don’t know the market better. 

It should be very easy for mfrs to provide a lower power mode tied to the fob.  Much easier than on an ICE vehicle.  Is there an Eco driving mode now?

[sullynd]

The Mach-E only gets one fob. You can setup MyKey, but it only sets max speed, does not affect performance.

 

Ford had a version of MyKey that did on the GT? I think. Maybe it was GT350/500.  Stellantis does for Hellcats. (Imagine handing a plaid over to a valet). 

 

There are three different modes, unbridled, whisper, and engage, and while it does adjust performance the impact is marginal.  It’s noticeable to me - unbridled is fun, but more work on a long trip - but none of the modes appease my wife. 

[rperez817]

17 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 just can't see myself ever being so motivated to defend a product that doesn't exist, against other products that aren't on sale yet either....all because of tweet that says it could be a flop? 

 

Tim Healey is welcome to share his opinions on TTAC, and readers are welcome to provide retorts.

 

Best to wait until Cybertruck and other BEV pickup trucks are available for sale to retail customers before declaring any of them a flop or not. Competition in the BEV pickup truck segment will be intense for sure. 

[jcartwright99]

6 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tim Healey is welcome to share his opinions on TTAC, and readers are welcome to provide retorts.

 

Best to wait until Cybertruck and other BEV pickup trucks are available for sale to retail customers before declaring any of them a flop or not. Competition in the BEV pickup truck segment will be intense for sure. 

 

Agree totally. His piece clearly states that it is his opinion (man). It's okay for others to have differing opinions too but was surprised (not surprised) by how dismissive/aggressive the tweets and comments were against Tim.  Based on Musk's comments, I am starting to think he doubts it will be a big seller. I think this space will be highly contested and I think that is where a lot of folks are thinking Tesla may struggle. 

 

To follow that thought, I read a comment that stated an interesting point. Both Nissan and Toyota have spent billions trying to crack the full size truck market, to little or no success. Do you think Tesla is just going to crack it on the first try? That fact alone makes me skeptical.

 

 

 

 

[silvrsvt]

37 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

To follow that thought, I read a comment that stated an interesting point. Both Nissan and Toyota have spent billions trying to crack the full size truck market, to little or no success. Do you think Tesla is just going to crack it on the first try? That fact alone makes me skeptical.

 

The truck market is really conservative with people sticking with a brand til they perceive they got slighted by the manufacturer for something, then move to another brand. 

 

Ford has the largest commercial sales of a pickup vs Ram and GM. I think Ram might have the most sales to retail consumers?

[rperez817]

31 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

To follow that thought, I read a comment that stated an interesting point. Both Nissan and Toyota have spent billions trying to crack the full size truck market, to little or no success. Do you think Tesla is just going to crack it on the first try? That fact alone makes me skeptical.

 

Good point jcartwright99 sir. Certainly there's no guarantee that Tesla, or the other new entrants like Rivian, Lordstown Motors, Nikola, Bollinger, etc. will be successful with their BEV pickup trucks. Lordstown in fact appears to be dying. 

 

In Tesla's case, they have the following advantages over Nissan and Toyota.

• U.S. company - it looks like full size pickup truck customers in the U.S. market prefer American companies, just based on the market share that Ford + GM have now
• Cybertruck has excellent specs for things such as towing, acceleration, range, storage space, approach & departure angles for off-roading, etc.
• Cybertruck proposed pricing has good coverage from low-end and high-end of the full size pickup truck market

Also, Nissan and Toyota's first entries in the full size pickup truck market starting about 20 years ago represented an evolution of existing ICE powered trucks. Cybertruck by contrast represents a revolutionary change.

[sullynd]

I think Cybertruck will sell to people who would otherwise have bought a full size SUV rather than a truck. 

[92merc]

I think the CyberTruck will sell well initially.  The Tesla loyalists will cream their jeans over it.  But after that initial sell of a year or two with probably production constraints, I think it'll struggle.

 

One of the things that concern me is its size.  From what the pre-production version I saw, wasn't that truck quite wide?  I'm talking military Hummer width here.  Its not going to fit in a lot of garages for regular homes.  So you won't be able to treat it like a regular truck like the Electric F150 will.  So it'll fill a niche market, but won't fill the mass market.

[silvrsvt]

17 minutes ago, 92merc said:

One of the things that concern me is its size.  From what the pre-production version I saw, wasn't that truck quite wide?  I'm talking military Hummer width here.  Its not going to fit in a lot of garages for regular homes.  So you won't be able to treat it like a regular truck like the Electric F150 will.  So it'll fill a niche market, but won't fill the mass market.

 

The prototype is roughly the size of an F-150 (depending on trim) and at least the article I pulled up is supposed to shrink 3% from that. The real issue is that its more of a heavy duty pickup vs a lightweight duty one like the F-150. 

 

The biggest issue I think it has is that it pushes the envelope a bit too much styling wise for "real" truck buyers. Yeah it will get attention, but how much "work" can it actually do without that styling impleading loading it and what not. 

[Deanh]

the Cybertruck will look nothing like the prototype...theres no way that styling would pass any Pedestrian safety parameters.....

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Agree totally. His piece clearly states that it is his opinion (man). It's okay for others to have differing opinions too but was surprised (not surprised) by how dismissive/aggressive the tweets and comments were against Tim.  Based on Musk's comments, I am starting to think he doubts it will be a big seller. I think this space will be highly contested and I think that is where a lot of folks are thinking Tesla may struggle. 

 

To follow that thought, I read a comment that stated an interesting point. Both Nissan and Toyota have spent billions trying to crack the full size truck market, to little or no success. Do you think Tesla is just going to crack it on the first try? That fact alone makes me skeptical.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the Cybertruck won't appeal to the core of the truck market - it's going to appeal to more the casual truck buyer and/or someone that may not buy a truck/wants it to say they have a cybertruck.

[rperez817]

Among Tesla Cybertruck's competitors, release date for Rivian R1T got delayed again. Originally scheduled for July 2021, 1st deliveries of R1T now are scheduled for September 2021. Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe tells customers R1T truck deliveries delayed until September (autonews.com)

[akirby]

4 hours ago, Deanh said:

the Cybertruck will look nothing like the prototype...theres no way that styling would pass any Pedestrian safety parameters.....

Or regular crash testing.  

[Deanh]

56 minutes ago, akirby said:

Or regular crash testing.  

absolute joke if you ask me..and I wonder when it will actually see the light of day...after all wheres the Semi?....not to mention the Speedster.....

[silvrsvt]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:06 PM, rperez817 said:

Among Tesla Cybertruck's competitors, release date for Rivian R1T got delayed again. Originally scheduled for July 2021, 1st deliveries of R1T now are scheduled for September 2021. Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe tells customers R1T truck deliveries delayed until September (autonews.com)

 

At this rate the F-150 lightning might be out first, outside of the GMC Hummer, which I consider a "luxury" truck/halo product. 

[AGR]

I like Tesla (except the Cybertruck), but am not a fanboy.  We're talking about opinions from TTAC. WGAF what TTAC says about anything.

[FordBuyer]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:45 AM, jcartwright99 said:

 

Agree totally. His piece clearly states that it is his opinion (man). It's okay for others to have differing opinions too but was surprised (not surprised) by how dismissive/aggressive the tweets and comments were against Tim.  Based on Musk's comments, I am starting to think he doubts it will be a big seller. I think this space will be highly contested and I think that is where a lot of folks are thinking Tesla may struggle. 

 

To follow that thought, I read a comment that stated an interesting point. Both Nissan and Toyota have spent billions trying to crack the full size truck market, to little or no success. Do you think Tesla is just going to crack it on the first try? That fact alone makes me skeptical.

 

 

 

 

 

I would say the market for BEV pickups will be fairly limited. Common sense says that towing heavy loads will severely impact range. That alone limits sales to non commercial users. 

[ekrampitzjr]

My hunch is that Tesla has peaked.  Everyone is jumping on the EV bandwagon, including now in the BEV truck market, and Tesla is a day late and dollar short.

 

Once other manufacturers have EVs in large numbers, mainly the fanboys will be the only ones buying Teslas, including the pickup.  I don't see a bright future for that company.  Once production gets underway, Ford will sell more electric F-150s in a month (or a week) than Tesla will sell CTs in a year.

[akirby]

37 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I would say the market for BEV pickups will be fairly limited. Common sense says that towing heavy loads will severely impact range. That alone limits sales to non commercial users. 

You know what else common sense says?  Vast majority of F150 buyers rarely do any towing at all.
 

There are plenty of commercial buyers who don’t tow or haul heavy loads for long distances.  Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, pool service, landscaping, lawn service, etc etc.  City and county governments.   Plenty of commercial opportunities.