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Where are the Mustang S650 prototypes?


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The 7th Gen S650 Mustang is expected to be a '23MY vehicle so, in theory, the car would be going into production at some point late in 2022. That would mean it's like to be revealed (either at a show or online) around 6 months prior to that, so lets say Summer 2022. So, we're potentially 12 months away from seeing it in all its glory.

 

Is it too early to expect to see camo'd prototypes? The nearest we've seen is what we assume are very early S550-based mules with a new brake setup. That was over 6 months ago, and we've seen nothing since.

 

 

 

S650 mule.jpg

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The S650 was cancelled in favour of heavily modified S550 that uses some CD6 modules that permit hybrid.

So hybrid Mustang is probably hiding in plain sight as it’s no so obvious like the picture above…..

Edited by jpd80
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As I understand it, it's still called S650, but it certainly changed direction during development. I was due to be based on CD6, but Hackett cancelled those plans and, as you say, the car is now expected to be a heavily modified S550 with elements of CD6.

 

So, I guess it would be very easy or them to test the engineering side of things in S550 cars, but at some point production intent prototypes with production ready styling will need to be tested. And that will require the heavy camo. Those are the prototypes I'm talking about. Perhaps its still to early for that.

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35 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

As I understand it, it's still called S650, but it certainly changed direction during development. I was due to be based on CD6, but Hackett cancelled those plans and, as you say, the car is now expected to be a heavily modified S550 with elements of CD6.

 

So, I guess it would be very easy or them to test the engineering side of things in S550 cars, but at some point production intent prototypes with production ready styling will need to be tested. And that will require the heavy camo. Those are the prototypes I'm talking about. Perhaps its still to early for that.

 

 

IIRC the last time the Mustang was updated, we didn't see spy shots for a long time due to them running them at night. 

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On 7/21/2021 at 9:15 AM, jpd80 said:

The S650 was cancelled in favour of heavily modified S550 that uses some CD6 modules that permit hybrid.

So hybrid Mustang is probably hiding in plain sight as it’s no so obvious like the picture above…..

 

Yes, I think we all know this to be true and thanks to people like you, we learned this quite early some 3 1/2 years ago.

 

Sadly a lot of the enthusiast public continue to miss this and keep mentioning it "moving to an Explorer platform".

 

Twin Turbo is aware of the cancelled CD6 car as a leading Mustang contributor and enthusiast out of GB, even pre-S550.

 

That being said, it's always very special to hear from those of you out of UK and Australia, two very powerful Anglophone Mustang markets that are not as fickle as Continental Europe (excl GER) in terms of using your purchasing power to keep the pony/muscle car and  V8 alive (especially Australia).

 

I think Dearborn PDC, have an edict to withhold publication of any imagery or visual access for S650. I don't even see the next Super Duty either, which says a lot doesn't it? I knew about P708 back in 2018 and 3 years later, it has yet to be seen.

 

Hiding in plain sight seems like a convenient excuse, as they're still somewhat noticeable anyway compared to your stock S550.

 

I have seen mules that only had a manufacturer's plate and no other visible alterations, falling upon the gaze of spy photographers, let alone the more S650 mules in S550 shells somehow missing photogs, both amateurs and professionals.

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Ford has gone out of their way, to hide these vehicles unlike the past. Rather mysterious. What worries me more, is I don't hear much about it anymore being adjacent to the inside. Just regurgitated info or bluff & BS hearsay.

 

I hope it is not 2024MY now, as 2022 S550 begins production quite late on January 3, 2022 and 2023 S650 was Job 1 originally May 30th or early June 2022, back in early 2020 pre-pandemic.

 

On 7/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, silvrsvt said:

 

 

IIRC the last time the Mustang was updated, we didn't see spy shots for a long time due to them running them at night. 

Pardon me, but when in terms of "last time" and "updated"? That didn't exactly happen with S550 to my recollection.

 

In fact, we (anyone curious) got very lucky, despite Ford falling behind a bit with S550 in the first half of 2012.

 

By falling behind, they allegedly had a final exterior design direction set in January 2012, but for some reason leadership refused to go directly to locking it in with engineering. It somehow lacked "punch" according to J Mays, even as Theme A.

 

Design instead made further styling changes to "fix it" until the summer of 2012, when it became 100% definitive and then Design released it to engineering to carefully freeze.

 

JANUARY 2012 FINAL DESIGN SELECTION S550 PROGRAM DEARBORN HQ

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REVISED S550 THEME A DESIGN

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The interior design effort, apparently began in 2010 and interior design freeze was supposed to parallel the exterior freeze in mid-2012, but ended up being remaining on schedule in June 2012, a few months after the final interior design was reached in late 2011/early 2012.

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Ford delayed the exterior design freeze on S550 by some 5-6 months and might have been targeting an April 2014 launch for 50th, instead of September 2014:

 

-- An inside guy who caught wind of the infamous September 2012 consumer clinic leak/breach, chimed in sneakily he was on the team and said S550 design freeze was expected end of November/by early December 2012.

 

2012 S550 FIBERGLASS 1:1

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Just right before that, we got this unusually deliberate leak of the front end shape on November 20, 2012 testing at PDC. Coincidence? Probably not, as Ford was just about locking it in finally.

 

NOVEMBER 2012 S550 M1/2 Mule

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At that point, I was now personally 100% certain what the car looked like upfront and most people couldn't piece it together for another year, instead swallowing a bunch of Fusion-based BS renderings being tossed around.

 

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I just didn't bother acknowledging the majority of 2012 renderings, save for the rare clever guesses BELOW, that felt VERY insider-derived and not as uninformed insight as pretended...

 

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Just look at those, drawn up without any prototypes out in existence. The accuracy felt very rather psychic...

 

From the end of 2012 to spring 2013, Alan Mulally and Co started showing the car to outside affiliates (ie Ken Block, etc), behind closed doors w/ironclad NDA. Ford management were confident at that point S550 production design was a done deal and okay to show privately, to key people.

 

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Turns out the inside guy from October 5, 2012 was dead accurate and gave away the design freeze date for the S550, before it even passed that stage. How Ford never investigated that leak, IDK.

 

According to Dave Pericak, Joel Piaskowski, and designer Kemal Curic in 2014, the first S550 body prototypes were built in May 2013. Like clockwork, we had infamously got these on camera and published on June 10, 2013.

 

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In June 2013, Ford CLEARLY didn't hide it all from street runs, except in bagging it up real well and putting special red tape over the newly 3-dimensional taillights. There is no reason that wouldn't suffice for S650 8 years later, in July 2021.

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My core point here is, Ford locked in the final S550 exterior design in 2012, roughly 6.5 months before we saw it in camouflage in 2013. It takes typically several months to build the first hand assembled testers wearing the serial design.

 

When they built the first S550 prototypes in May 2013 at Allen Park, they were not hidden for very long from unrestricted field runs. They got them out there almost immediately in June and the first spy shots, were almost certainly tipped off for photographers.

 

At this point, S650 is long past that stage and yet nowhere to be seen. 2024 model now or what? Other than a leak I personally saw and that Chinese sculpture, absolutely nada.

 

Twin Turbo knowing all of this, can tell something is off and I notice it too. I think this has to do with the past 4-5 years as seen by the 2018 Expy and 2020 Explorer taking forever to b seen, but even the media has nothing relevant to report on this car and I find it very peculiar.

 

It's like someone is also going out of their way to shut out a litany of Ford people here from knowing a lick about it outside of Team Mustang/S650, as I can tell none of you know anything about what's happening and that's very rare, unlike with Bronco, Ranger and '21 F-150. As well as many others, so it's an avoided topic in most cases.

 

What are they so desperate to hide? There's no new insight, not to mention certain job positions have shuffled regarding S650 from I have seen. People have been reassigned or left Ford, like my ex-S650 Ford contact, who cites his NDA as a reason not to talk with me about it.

 

No one is entitled to knowing what a corporation is doing of course, but it is rather atypical compared to what has transpired previously.

 

Even the updated MCA S550 was caught 2 years early (very unexpectedly) as a mule in October 2015, then resurfaced in full testing regalia in Fall 2016, 1 year before they hit lots in December 2017.

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Either there is a lot to worry about or something special is coming, that warrants the immense secrecy.

 

On 7/21/2021 at 11:10 AM, Twin Turbo said:

I guess with all the supplier leaks on new product recently, Ford are coming down hard. I guess testing at night and on the proving grounds, makes sense. I'm still desperate to see a prototype though!

 

This is probably accurate unfortunately, but I wonder what changed between S550 and S650, which warrants this level of deep secrecy? They aren't reinventing the wheel or the Mustang formula, so it's odd. It's really business as usual, now with HEV.

 

Someone did say something somewhere recently about S650, which my personal source won't confirm nor deny.

 

3.5L Powerboost equivalent as top model, 5.0L V8 as mid-level, and 2.3L as base. AWD plus, sedan as well. He described the direction it would take, a grand tourer. I cannot trust that yet. The last name checks out though, in terms of Ford personnel.

 

I didn't want to mention him, since I am still skeptical of the sedan, but FRAP has so much capacity, that is unused at the moment (Continental, Fusion) and that "Mustang derivative", just might be a 4-door indeed and not a special edition vehicle like GT500 or etc.

 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:06 PM, bzcat said:

S650 is probably just testing in plain sight. It is based on the S550 so they can test whatever they need to test on the drivetrain with a S550 body. 

 

 

S197 shares quite a lot with S550, but that didn't stop Ford from trotting out S550 prototypes, within just weeks of building the first integrated components or verification prototypes in May 2013, to field testing them in June 2013 with no hesitation and courting the media immediately.

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I understand they were pissed about the August 2013 leak, of the full front end testing. As well as Ranger clay by Wheels Magazine in February 2019 (the worst leak) and pandemic leaks on Bronco via TFL, but it doesn't compute how that factors into S650.

2015-ford-mustang-spy-photos-news-car-and-driver-photo-520377-s-original.thumb.jpg.b31934428ae22bcad6897bb0236c89a3.jpgford-ranger-front.thumb.jpg.436a044fed06b504206a5792817deec5.jpg

Your theory I disagree with, because countless vehicles with little to no differences, with Michigan Manufacturer's plates, are often spy-photographed for little to no reason, as it's obvious to intelligent observers, they are almost always test vehicles of some sort.

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Anything without an MI manufacturer's plate or registration (Europe/Asia/Australia), is not worth any attention to any "spy" photographers.

 

Basically, they are not really out there at all testing like OP mentioned, plain and simple, as both amateur and professional photographers, didnt decide overnight to ignore them.

 

The S650 mules simply disappeared from public sight and thus neither S650 mules or actual integrated vehicles, are testing on real world runs. Only controlled zones or in dark of the night. They cannot do that forever, as digital prototyping can be misleading and so can controlled environments.

 

The S650 chief engineer left his post abruptly and many people assigned to S650, changed programs, left Ford in 2020, or etc. That's both conflicting and concerning.

 

The OP's question cannot be simply answered, by saying, "It's based on S550, so people aren't catching it" or "just testing at night". One is just trying to be certain, it's still on track and has not fallen significantly behind.

 

If testing at night, well Ford is gonna have to put S650 into in public rounds eventually and get proper feedback for engineering sign-off, which is typically reached under a year before market launch. From 1990 Town Car FN36 in December 1988 (launched October 5, 1989) to 2021 Bronco U725 (delayed).

 

And you still gotta test it well before that, in those same often public conditions too. Bronco was forced to surface on camera, 11 months before planned Job 1 of 12/7/2020. And that itself was deliberately held back from view, yet still got decent media coverage before that.

 

Media is not doing their part, staying ahead of things on S650 and leaving people in the dark, to fend for themselves. Seems like an afterthought, compared to the attention the S550 got.

 

With Bronco, I understand the 25 year absence, but this is also still a Ford Icon vehicle and poor due diligence is being paid by the lot of media, focusing on the dumbest fluff of topics nowadays instead and not checking in with their Ford contacts on the program.

 

Unlike the average person, I try to be smarter about insight and I don't rely on YouTubers and see a concern, when my Ford friends/acq in general are at a loss as to what's happening.

 

By comparison, Camaro is in limbo with Alpha 2 vs VSS-R, Stellantis always kicks the can down the road and ditched Giorgio, and the last one standing, seems to keep changing trajectory from CD6 to "D5" once again, or BEV.

 

Under Alan Mullally he wanted One Ford to dictate a 7/8 year life cycle for newly introduced S550. Mark Fields pushed it forward to MY 2021 on an entirely new platform.

 

Hackett consolidated it into a revised vehicle and then instituted an EV replacement for late 2020s. The lack of consistency is concerning, as a very well informed Mustang buyer.

 

On 7/21/2021 at 3:00 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:


We saw the same thing (or rather, we didn't) with the Bronco prototypes. 

 

You are often very helpful with answering my questions, but I must disagree. I do believe that this might apply to both Bronco and now S650, but with S550 this wasn't the case at all and it was almost immediately available in every circumstance.

 

They built the first S550 mules in spring of 2012 and appeared in June 2012 as cut and welded S197s. A unique front end mule appeared in November 2012, 100% S550 fore of A-Pillar.

 

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First S550 prototypes were built in May 2013, appearing in public the second week of June 2013. Sales began in September 2014, after August JoB 1. At this point one doesn't see anything new and we have been seeing S650 mules since February 2020. They disappeared from view as OP said and nothing else seems to be brewing.

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The last time I saw this weird gap was with the Explorer, which was seen as a camouflaged CD6 mule (U504 body) from October 2016 until the first actual prototype was snapped in June 2018 by an amateur photographer spotting it and no professional photographer like Brenda Priddy even bothered to look out for it for weeks. They were running around DTW since April 2018.

 

OCTOBER 2016 SPY SHOTS - U625 X1/M1 CD6 Mule?

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JUNE 2018 U625 PROTOTYPE - First Spy Shot

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On 7/22/2021 at 1:23 AM, Twin Turbo said:

Maybe I'm just impatient :)

 

Hopefully we'll see those fully camo'd prototypes by the end of the year. As a Mustang nerd, I'm keen to start learning as much as I can about S650, even if it's just initial assumptions from the spy shots :)

I unfortunately think we will, as there is a slow pattern Ford is abiding by and that means, hiding them by all means necessary until maybe 1 year out. Outside of the Mach 1, I hate the 2018+ and I am desperate to move onto the next generation, since about January 2017 (reveal of '18)

Edited by JX1
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9 hours ago, JX1 said:

At this point one doesn't see anything new and we have been seeing S650 mules since February 2020.


Im still not convinced those were S650 mules. The problem is I don't know what they could have been otherwise though. 

 

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If we’re about 12 months out, the first tooling tryouts would be happening soon,

after that comes first batch of  prototypes………

 

 


With FRAP being closed for most of the summer so far due the chip shortage I would imagine any launch schedule, whether it's a continuation of the S550 program or S650, has probably been delayed.
 

FWIW my good friend who works there hasn't heard anything about any new products. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Im still not convinced those were S650 mules. The problem is I don't know what they could have been otherwise though. 

 


With FRAP being closed for most of the summer so far due the chip shortage I would imagine any launch schedule, whether it's a continuation of the S550 program or S650, has probably been delayed.
 

FWIW my good friend who works there hasn't heard anything about any new products. 

Thanks for tip Fuzzy, normally Ford likes to lock in defined amounts of supplies to end of model

and it’s clear that the stoppages are mucking up that targeting so yeah, Ford probably has a change

over target date but that  could slide to match completion of a set build number before NG begins.

 

Since the batteries are contained within the unitary floorpan, integration into the shell shouldn’t be too hard

if it’s just additional steps making the floor. This has familiar process to me, it’s similar to the Falcon’s evolution.

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On 7/23/2021 at 9:39 PM, jpd80 said:

If we’re about 12 months out, the first tooling tryouts would be happening soon,

after that comes first batch of  prototypes………

 

 

Thanks for the polite reply, I appreciate it. Now I understand you might be in a sensitive position, so anything about internal processes I bring, you are most welcome to not directly respond.

 

This right here is an example of some past phases, which may or may not mirror the present. I did leave some things out, for IP reasons.

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I have noticed in the second visual, VP stage the first phase of final tophat put into testing, now is indeed some 12 months before Job 1. That is very different than before, as the above example was the CD391 program. Second one is from much more recently.

 

 

Tooling trials I thought came after VP?

 

Perhaps Ford has sped up their process, meaning a lot of things that use to come much earlier in program development, can be done much later in the game?

 

 

“Launch” phase develops between the FDJ and the J1 Gateways, which is, from when the design is finished and frozen until when everything is confirmed within the Plant to start serial Production, which is confirmed at the J1 Gateway.

The main activities would be:

  • Engineering Completion: By working with the suppliers, the final engineering of each part is finalized and the suppliers tools done and tested. First off tool parts are manufactured and, with these, the second Prototype Build is done: VP or Verification Prototype. The intention of these builds is to test not only the engineering design meet the Vehicle requirements (Customer and Legal) but also that the supplier’s tools, and in some cases also the processes, can produce parts that also meet these requirements. In house processes are also tested and fine tuned, like BIW (Body In White) and Paint facilities.
  • Manufacturing processes are defined and training planned. Some of the VP vehicles are used to train plant operators on assembly processes, as well as to define in detail the assembly process. From these two activities is normal that changes are made to the product, not affecting its features, but to polish some parts, making them better suited for assembly, for example.
  • Homologation activities kick off: On a project as complex a whole vehicle, and with so many different legal requirements, the homologation activities are long and resource consuming. Some of the VP vehicles will be destined, not only for Engineering Verification testing, but also for homologation activities, such as environmental emissions or crash tests.
  • The main sub Gateway of this phase would FEC, or Final Engineering Completion. By “passing through” this Gateway the project is confirmed to have met the Product Requirements outlined during the Strategy phase and it is ready to go into production. The Project Manager and sponsor will be allowed then to commit the resources to “launch” the vehicle into the plant. This stage is what is more known as “Launch”, as the vehicle enters the plant and the Pre Production Builds are conducted.
  • These Pre Production Builds are mostly two: Tool Trial (TT) and Pre Production (PP). The intention of the first is to try out all the manufacturing processes, both in house and at the supplier base. This will tense, for the first time, this processes, confirming they are able to deliver, in time, to cost and quality (Just in Time philosophy) the product. These vehicles will be used for the so called PV testing (Production Verification) to confirm that what has been built using industrial processes still meets product requirements. During VP the testing is called DV (Design Verification). The last build before going into serial production is the PP, as a last trial to fine tune and polish processes, complete training of BAU operators and users.
  • The other main Launch activity will be the marketing plans initiation and the Press Release, usually done with PP vehicles, as they would be the most refined ones so far.

The Launch phase finishes with the Job 1 confirmation, with the confirmation of entering full serial production and ramp up, once it has been confirmed all the processes are capable of delivering parts and vehicles in time, to cost and quality. Let’s not forget that the product has been validated as meeting requirements twice: at M1 during the delivery phase and at VP during the first half of the Launch phase.

 

MP1

Mass Production 1&2

MP1 - produce first customer saleable unit through the full production system without retrofit and delivers Okay-to-Buy target

MP2 - begin acceleration to full production line rate at the required level 

 

Suppliers, Manufacturing facilities ans Assembly Plants have completed Production Validation and are capable to accelerate at MP1 and are stable at MP2

Ford is either using a later phase of prototyping for field runs or running a much shorter timetable on final development. They say that P552 development wrapped for engineering sign-off in December 2013 and Job 1 was November 11, 2014.

 

Heck, this was the point Ford had reached according to my T3 affiliated contact in 2017.

 

P702 Final Appearance Approval on November 17, 2017 at 4:06PM CST

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Actual 2021 F-150 in Metal

 

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Clearly at Ford there is still a very long gap till production and Allen Park would've built their own first units in 2018, before River Rouge built the first test units in April 2019? We saw those in May 2019 in camo if IIRC.

 

P702 Job 1 was eventually delayed a total of 4-5 months to October 12, 2020. I swear I saw a May 15th or June 15, 2020 Job 1 for that pre-pandemic in a supplier PDF. It disappeared rather quickly I remember.

 

Tooling Trials I think, never precede that stage of prototyping, so color me confused right now. Or are tooling tryouts, different Tooling Trials? Bronco Tooling Trials were said to be mid-2020, when scheduled for 12/7/2020 J1. Eventually it became September 2020 for TT, when dealing with a March 22, 2021 Job 1. Later got delayed again to May/June Job 1 though.

 

19 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Im still not convinced those were S650 mules. The problem is I don't know what they could have been otherwise though. 

 


With FRAP being closed for most of the summer so far due the chip shortage I would imagine any launch schedule, whether it's a continuation of the S550 program or S650, has probably been delayed.
 

FWIW my good friend who works there hasn't heard anything about any new products. 

Thank you for your response, it is much respected and appreciated insight. Very good point and quite understandable, as I don't know either.

 

Maybe what Ford Calls X0 or X1 mules?

 

The earliest phase of prototyping, before M1 which has the underbody or running gear of the next gen vehicle, whereas "X" mules do isolated tests for differing components?

 

FRAP just as I imagined it, being shutdown, means S650 must be delayed then. Unfortunate.

 

They are not even producing MY 2022 until January, so even if S650 was Q4 2022, it easily slips into first half of 2023.

 

No new products there? Does that include the coupe then? Sounds like the sedan claim is farfetched or perhaps maybe that hasn't been identified to plant staff yet? If another new product was planned, maybe it's MY 2024 from the getgo and doesn't reach FRAP personnel until 18 months out?

 

Something definitely isn't going right due to chip shortage and they're playing their cards much closer to vest as a result. Typically anyway, 90% of prototype testing is within company proving grounds and not really public. Only the Germans, turned it into a regular marketing stunt. I guess Ford is content with their own controlled environment and until the last MY is in showrooms, I guess to hide it away.

 

Edited by JX1
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30 minutes ago, JX1 said:

No new products there? Does that include the coupe then? Sounds like the sedan claim is farfetched or perhaps maybe that hasn't been identified to plant staff yet? If another new product was planned, maybe it's MY 2024 from the getgo and doesn't reach FRAP personnel until 18 months out?

 

 

I think Fuzzy was referring to products beyond the Mustang.  This chip shortage screwed up everything and it seems that Ford has taken the biggest hit. I am sure that any new product in addition to the Mustang will be build after the new Mustang is launched.  

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JX1, I’m not connected with Ford so all good. I think Fuzzy will back me up here  that tooling tryouts

happen first to confirm pressings are correct then comes Validation Prototypes……

those first Bronco  tryouts were around April 2020 and protos produced the next month.

 

Unless the vehicle is a close variation of an existing vehicle, field evaluation and validation is usually ~12 months.

Things like Bronco long term frame testing happen about two years out with Attribute Prototypes (weird looking Ranger mules)

Edited by jpd80
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5 hours ago, JX1 said:

Bronco Tooling Trials were said to be mid-2020, when scheduled for 12/7/2020 J1. Eventually it became September 2020 for TT, when dealing with a March 22, 2021 Job 1. Later got delayed again to May/June Job 1 though.


No, Bronco TT builds started for us in August 2020. It wasn't until January when we got into PP builds. 

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5 hours ago, JX1 said:

No new products there? Does that include the coupe then? Sounds like the sedan claim is farfetched or perhaps maybe that hasn't been identified to plant staff yet? If another new product was planned, maybe it's MY 2024 from the getgo and doesn't reach FRAP personnel until 18 months out?


What I meant by no new products was everything seems to be in kind of a holding pattern until the chip shortage is resolved. I've heard from elsewhere that there's something planned for FRAP but no indication of what that is or when we see it. 

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On 7/25/2021 at 1:51 AM, Footballfan said:

I think Fuzzy was referring to products beyond the Mustang.  This chip shortage screwed up everything and it seems that Ford has taken the biggest hit. I am sure that any new product in addition to the Mustang will be build after the new Mustang is launched.  

 

I see Footballfan, as I thought he was strictly referring to products going into the Ford Flat Rock Assembly Plant and not Ford as a whole. A UAW agreement from 2019, referred to Mustang and derivatives.

 

I haven't been too trusting of "4-door" rumor, as I originally wrote it off immediately as Mach-E and nothing else. Other new Ford products in development are coming along, although slower than expected as seen by U55X MCA and S650. I was referring to that plant alone, already knowing everything is either coming to market when possible (Maverick) or being pushed out as long as possible (U55X MCA, S650, P708).

 

On 7/25/2021 at 2:16 AM, jpd80 said:

JX1, I’m not connected with Ford so all good. I think Fuzzy will back me up here  that tooling tryouts

happen first to confirm pressings are correct then comes Validation Prototypes……

those first Bronco  tryouts were around April 2020 and protos produced the next month.

 

Unless the vehicle is a close variation of an existing vehicle, field evaluation and validation is usually ~12 months.

Things like Bronco long term frame testing happen about two years out with Attribute Prototypes (weird looking Ranger mules)

 

Oh really? You are always so knowledgeable, quite tops in fact. Well thank you for your response, as I know that you try to answer to the best of your ability and I wouldn't want to be too invasive.

 

Thanks for your help, any response is welcome. I unfortunately have had an extremely busy week, so this response came late.

 

I remember seeing the first actual Broncos in January 2020, which was contingent on a December 7th Job 1. That fell behind once COVID-19 hit to March 22nd, then May 3, and ultimately June 2021 Job 1.

 

I heard they were put to testing in some tophat form back in mid-2019, but for marketing and IP purposes, they hid them away. Didn't want it to overshadow Mach-E debut nor be a big focus more than 1 year before launch.

 

Problem I have with people complaining about Bronco being revealed "too early", they are absolutely tone deaf to not realize, Ford at worst wanted to reveal it in mid-March of 2020, 11 months before Jan or February 2021. They had done press quietly under embargo in February, with some PP builds I imagine.

 

Obviously July 13, 2020 was chosen after various uncontrollable hiccups, now anticipating Spring 2021 launch. Yet, you see ignorant complaints over that, comparing it to the 2010 Camaro. A lot of people just don't get it and unfortunately find a soapbox.

 

On 7/25/2021 at 6:35 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:


No, Bronco TT builds started for us in August 2020. It wasn't until January when we got into PP builds. 

 

I see, thank you for your response. I was misled by these below, in terms of TT builds.

 

PP builds 4-5 months before Job 1 makes sense as well, I wonder if that played a part in pushing back Job 1?

 

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/07/22/ford-assembly-plant-being-prepped-bronco-build-soon/5481875002/

 

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/09/29/2021-ford-bronco-reservations/3561907001/

 

On 7/25/2021 at 6:37 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:


What I meant by no new products was everything seems to be in kind of a holding pattern until the chip shortage is resolved. I've heard from elsewhere that there's something planned for FRAP but no indication of what that is or when we see it. 

 

Again, thank you for your response. Footballfan correctly predicted what you were saying, but I had expected that holding pattern independent of FRAP anyway and across Ford. Regardless of that, they still have to continue vehicle development I imagine.

 

In terms that something, it's where my curiosity lies. I do not believe whatever it is, would be ready for Job 1 alongside S650 coupe. No one worth a hoot, has discussed it, other than one person so far.

 

I made the mistake, of mentioning the timetable of 18 months, but I was really throwing in a question of how much validity do any of you here think those rumors are?

 

I never really concerned myself with the prospect of a "sedan" after seeing Mach-E and chalking up rumors, to unnecessary confusion. Until I took notice of the 2019 UAW agreement and also recently when an Indian-American engineer at Ford, commented on it elsewhere informally, explaining some bullet points which seemed credible and found nowhere else (in bold), regarding use of existing basis with CD6, AWD, and new powertrain.

 

One just does hope, this car isn't dead. I would really like to move on from S550 MCA, sooner than later, as it has been a long 4 1/2 years waiting for the next chapter.

 

I loved the S550/6G Mustang before I even officially saw it in full, having a confident inkling of what Ford had designed as of 2012. Elegant, more refined, and exotic looking, with a respectable interior for the price. The MCA was not what I expected at all. The ugly headlights and front signals. Easier to swallow Mach 1, but not in my budget.

 

I have a strong idea of the S650, but my curiosity just wants confirmation of what I saw a year ago.

 

If there is a company wide holding pattern as you said, it unsurprisingly will dictate that such prototype testing out in public to be prohibited/delayed and confine it to secret rounds only.

 

Funny how the Super Duty redesign is coming up, yet nowhere to be seen, even in rudimentary M1 mule form. Easy to think that is now 2024, after seeing the interior updates for 2022.

 

I do see plenty of Ranger prototypes running about (long after design approval in February 2019),  but I am not gonna dare ask you about the MY 2023 schedule, as I respect your privacy and legal obligations to Ford.

 

I'll let anyone know if I stumble upon that, as we know 2021 Bronco EOP is 12/10/2021 and 2022 is 12/13/21. P375N Ranger EOP is not yet disclosed by Ford, although they provide 12/2021 for MY 2022 SOP. 

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27 minutes ago, JX1 said:

I do see plenty of Ranger prototypes running about (long after design approval in February 2019),  but I am not gonna dare ask you about the MY 2023 schedule, as I respect your privacy and legal obligations to Ford.

 

I'll let anyone know if I stumble upon that, as we know 2021 Bronco EOP is 12/10/2021 and 2022 is 12/13/21. P375N Ranger EOP is not yet disclosed by Ford, although they provide 12/2021 for MY 2022 SOP. 


I have a general idea of when it's supposed to launch here, but I don't know specifics yet. The one person I can ask (and I have) is being coy about it. If what PD said in the spy shot thread holds true, we should see the ROW version later this year, possibly between Halloween and Thanksgiving. I'm not going to say anything further because I don't want to start my day Monday with a trip to HR. 

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37 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I have a general idea of when it's supposed to launch here, but I don't know specifics yet. The one person I can ask (and I have) is being coy about it. If what PD said in the spy shot thread holds true, we should see the ROW version later this year, possibly between Halloween and Thanksgiving. I'm not going to say anything further because I don't want to start my day Monday with a trip to HR. 

I respect that, thank you for your polite and quick response. Don't want any of you to get into trouble. I almost thought 12/2021 Job 1 for USDM 2022 Ranger might be P703, instead of our P375N.

 

Definitely is still 2023 for NA, but I thought Thailand plant would also be suffering in the chip shortage and be pushed into 2022?

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As for the Mustang, one hopes it's not more than 18 months away. Reason I say that is, Mustang sales continue to drop. In my neck of the woods, most of the other GTs I see are bought by guys under 40, especially 20 somethings.

 

Ditto for Challengers and Chargers. Baby Boomers (many retirees) here seem to favor classics/resto-mods, premium brand stuff or pickups for V8 thirst.

 

I wonder if where I am, this younger take rate is unique and in the majority of the Mid West, SE, and coasts, it's only nostalgic Boomers who bought Mustangs?

 

A dominating chunk of pony/muscle cars buyer tend to be armed forces or uniformed services in general where I am...

 

Becomes more and more niche everyday.

 

Is Ford feeling the pressure to dial back investment in traditional Mustang and instead focus on alternatives, that favor the global mainstream instead?

 

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10 minutes ago, JX1 said:

As for the Mustang, one hopes it's not more than 18 months away. Reason I say that is, Mustang sales continue to drop. In my neck of the woods, most of the other GTs I see are bought by guys under 40, especially 20 somethings.

Is Ford feeling the pressure to dial back investment in traditional Mustang and instead focus on alternatives, that favor the global mainstream instead?

 

 

Mustang sales are mostly suffering due to shortages from COVID. 

 

It is still the best selling coupe Sports car in the world the last time I checked


it is also due for a refresh which will pop sales back up again and they will sag again. 

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32 minutes ago, JX1 said:

Is Ford feeling the pressure to dial back investment in traditional Mustang and instead focus on alternatives, that favor the global mainstream instead?

 

Not pressure, it's just good business decision and yes, it's called Mach-E.

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