FordBuyer Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 2 hours ago, akirby said: Seems that way but they must have good reasons for it. Well, if you can't meet demand for the F150 Powerboost because of many factors, then it doesn't make sense to worsen the supply problem further. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dds010 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 With Grand Touring Aviator basically featuring 500hp, it’s criminal for the Navi, which is the Flagship of the entire Ford company, to have only 440hp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 37 minutes ago, dds010 said: With Grand Touring Aviator basically featuring 500hp, it’s criminal for the Navi, which is the Flagship of the entire Ford company, to have only 440hp It makes me wonder if the rumors are true. That we'll get an all new Navigator sooner rather than later. I don't see Ford doing this without one of two things happening. A. This is a tide us over refresh until a new model comes out in 1-2 years. B. Supply issue for powerboost and it will become a option in next MY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterbridge86 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 10 hours ago, dds010 said: With Grand Touring Aviator basically featuring 500hp, it’s criminal for the Navi, which is the Flagship of the entire Ford company, to have only 440hp Agreed. Combined with the fact that they dropped the output by 10hp for 2022, I think the only logical explanation is they had intentions of launching with PowerBoost option but supply chain issues forced them to hold off. Hope we end up seeing the option added sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 10 hours ago, jcartwright99 said: It makes me wonder if the rumors are true. That we'll get an all new Navigator sooner rather than later. I don't see Ford doing this without one of two things happening. A. This is a tide us over refresh until a new model comes out in 1-2 years. B. Supply issue for powerboost and it will become a option in next MY. C. 6.8L V8 when it becomes available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterbridge86 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 9 hours ago, slemke said: C. 6.8L V8 when it becomes available Good point lol that's always an option too. With Ford's push on electrification and fuel economy and Lincoln's "Quiet Flight" mantra that might be an odd choice, but they are building that engine for something, so I guess we'll find out. There's definitely a market for premium SUV with a big ballsy V8 to go head-to-head with GM's 6.2L in the Escalade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, alterbridge86 said: There's definitely a market for premium SUV with a big ballsy V8 to go head-to-head with GM's 6.2L in the Escalade. Id say Ford has that covered already. Navi - 450 hp/510 lb/ft. 16/22/18 mpg Escalade - 420 hp/460 lb/ft. 15/20/17 mpg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdatdude Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 What if they held off on an announcement to offer a version of the alleged raptor r engine? I hope there is a more powerful option because this is what killed the second generation Navigator, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 On 8/23/2021 at 11:50 AM, FordBuyer said: I think you got it.....limits on hybrid supply chain. Probably why Maverick hybrid will be in short supply. Probably why Escape hybrid is only 20% of production even though Ford could sell many more. Ford has never had a strong supply chain for hybrid components. Toyota seems to dominate there. Covid Supply issues aside, with how long Ford has been building hybrids, they perpetually seem to have limited supply of them. Wish they’d figure that out already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 6 hours ago, akirby said: Id say Ford has that covered already. Navi - 450 hp/510 lb/ft. 16/22/18 mpg Escalade - 420 hp/460 lb/ft. 15/20/17 mpg Word on the street is the Escalade will get a high HP engine soon. I think it will be the ZL1 engine. Definitely supercharged. Could Lincoln respond with a 6.8/Powerboost 6.8? Would they supercharge it? Would this be the new engine for the Raptor? These are the questions we should be asking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dds010 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 On 8/26/2021 at 5:07 PM, jcartwright99 said: Word on the street is the Escalade will get a high HP engine soon. I think it will be the ZL1 engine. Definitely supercharged. Could Lincoln respond with a 6.8/Powerboost 6.8? Would they supercharge it? Would this be the new engine for the Raptor? These are the questions we should be asking. Hopefully, go out with a Bang for the ice. Raptor R engine in a coach door 25th Anniversary Navigator would be knocking on Rolls Royce door no matter if it cost $120 Plus. It’ll be a signal bearer for the entire Lincoln brand 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 On 8/26/2021 at 1:07 PM, rmc523 said: Covid Supply issues aside, with how long Ford has been building hybrids, they perpetually seem to have limited supply of them. Wish they’d figure that out already. I don't remember the Fusion Hybrid having issues....Seems like the issue has been with the new gen Escape, and that was due to a design issue that cropped up right before covid hit. As for the F-150 with powerboost, I'm assuming its COVID/supply issues driving that right now and for the next 16-24 months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: I don't remember the Fusion Hybrid having issues....Seems like the issue has been with the new gen Escape, and that was due to a design issue that cropped up right before covid hit. As for the F-150 with powerboost, I'm assuming its COVID/supply issues driving that right now and for the next 16-24 months or so. I dunno, just always seems like they're short on hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dds010 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) Was just thinking to myself: The fact that Ford sees no problem with the Aviator Grand Touring having vastly more power than the luxury arms (we know the F150 & Mustang are the REAL company flagships) flagship vehicle is BEYOND laughable. I mean it’s already a shame that the best vehicle that your lux division makes plays 2nd and 3rd fiddle to your mainstreams brands pickup and pony car, but to also be outpowered by smaller vehicles in your own lineup is BAD. heck, you have the Expy getting the 15inch screen from Lightning and MachE, while the Navigator get 13.2 inch. Mean to tell me the couldn’t flip 15inch screen horizontally and widen the digital tach?..and that along with no 3.5 power bump OR powerboost option no soft close doors no 30 way seats for 2nd row no fully customizable/ enlarged center UI/screen with 3D maps Nightvision now Keep in mind that The Escalade has been rumored to be getting an engine higher output/high performance model. Even with the introduction of electric vehicles, Ford still doesn’t seem intent on Lincoln truly be the best they can be. These mild updates work in segment that are dead end BUT no matter how limited the number are, the full-size luxury SUV segment is a money PRINTER, and when you’ve (Lincoln) finally caught up, you don’t sit there and do minor updates while waiting model years on new product. you ever see MB standing pat and waiting for things for the Sclass? Heck no! HELL do you ever ever see Ford minor updating or standing pat with the F150? HE** NO!…and just that “minor update, wait 2 more years” mindset is exactly why I’m stil concerned about Lincoln Edited September 9, 2021 by dds010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlcorbett Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Rumor is The new model is due in my 2024. They pushed it up 2 yrs if it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlcorbett Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 https://www.google.com/amp/s/fordauthority.com/2021/09/2022-ford-expedition-to-get-tech-updates-before-redesign-in-2024/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 13 hours ago, dds010 said: Was just thinking to myself: The fact that Ford sees no problem with the Aviator Grand Touring having vastly more power than the luxury arms (we know the F150 & Mustang are the REAL company flagships) flagship vehicle is BEYOND laughable. I mean it’s already a shame that the best vehicle that your lux division makes plays 2nd and 3rd fiddle to your mainstreams brands pickup and pony car, but to also be outpowered by smaller vehicles in your own lineup is BAD. heck, you have the Expy getting the 15inch screen from Lightning and MachE, while the Navigator get 13.2 inch. Mean to tell me the couldn’t flip 15inch screen horizontally and widen the digital tach?..and that along with no 3.5 power bump OR powerboost option no soft close doors no 30 way seats for 2nd row no fully customizable/ enlarged center UI/screen with 3D maps Nightvision now Keep in mind that The Escalade has been rumored to be getting an engine higher output/high performance model. Even with the introduction of electric vehicles, Ford still doesn’t seem intent on Lincoln truly be the best they can be. i totally get what you’re saying, but it sounds like an all new one is on the way sooner than expected, which explains it some. adding even a flipped 15” may have required a lot more dash/dash structural changes than they were willing to invest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Do we have any reason why they are releasing a new one so quickly? Electrification? Seems like this refresh will be around only 2-3 MY's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: Do we have any reason why they are releasing a new one so quickly? Electrification? Seems like this refresh will be around only 2-3 MY's. Perhaps just trying to keep the product fresh in a segment they've determined is critical? The opposite of what they did leaving it to rot for years. And if you think about it, 2018-2024 is 6 model years, so we just got the refresh a year late if following a 6-year cycle. Take it how you will, but Borg says there's going to be the next-gen ICE/hybrid for '24 AND an EV version a year or two later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dds010 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, rmc523 said: Perhaps just trying to keep the product fresh in a segment they've determined is critical? The opposite of what they did leaving it to rot for years. And if you think about it, 2018-2024 is 6 model years, so we just got the refresh a year late if following a 6-year cycle. Take it how you will, but Borg says there's going to be the next-gen ICE/hybrid for '24 AND an EV version a year or two later. All that may be true, but like I said, do you ever see MB do minor update/stand pat/wait couple years with their SClass, but yet, you ever seen FORD do that with the F150, and the F150 has led its segment in every imaginable way for over 30 years, but the same damn company finally catches up with Caddy in product image and they do minor updates when Caddy just launched a completely new product as will also introduce a hotter version. See it’s that train of thought that got Lincoln and the Navigator buried under the dirt in the first place Youve been losing mightly (in sales #s and ATPs) for almost 15years and when you finally start catching up you instantly want to take a water break?, but the same company who wipes the floor in pickup sales NEVER EVER rest, see any correlation? Edited September 9, 2021 by dds010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dds010 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 20 hours ago, rmc523 said: i totally get what you’re saying, but it sounds like an all new one is on the way sooner than expected, which explains it some. adding even a flipped 15” may have required a lot more dash/dash structural changes than they were willing to invest. The screen is the only thing I see should have caused a lot of problems because there’s really no excuse why the Aviator GT has Loads more power than the Navis 3.5. There’s no excuse for the Navi losing power even if a powerboost was planned or not. No excuse for no air suspension/no soft close doors, and def no excuse for the digital tach to no be enlarged and gain 3D navigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 37 minutes ago, dds010 said: The screen is the only thing I see should have caused a lot of problems because there’s really no excuse why the Aviator GT has Loads more power than the Navis 3.5. There’s no excuse for the Navi losing power even if a powerboost was planned or not. No excuse for no air suspension/no soft close doors, and def no excuse for the digital tach to no be enlarged and gain 3D navigation There are plenty of reasons but you don’t want to hear them so let’s move along please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 18 hours ago, jcartwright99 said: Do we have any reason why they are releasing a new one so quickly? Electrification? Seems like this refresh will be around only 2-3 MY's. Electrification is the most likely reason, specifically BEV versions of Navigator and Expedition. Hopefully Ford can introduce those vehicles before GM comes out with BEV versions of Escalade, Tahoe, Suburban, and Yukon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 9/8/2021 at 12:06 AM, dds010 said: Was just thinking to myself: The fact that Ford sees no problem with the Aviator Grand Touring having vastly more power than the luxury arms (we know the F150 & Mustang are the REAL company flagships) flagship vehicle is BEYOND laughable. I mean it’s already a shame that the best vehicle that your lux division makes plays 2nd and 3rd fiddle to your mainstreams brands pickup and pony car, but to also be outpowered by smaller vehicles in your own lineup is BAD. heck, you have the Expy getting the 15inch screen from Lightning and MachE, while the Navigator get 13.2 inch. Mean to tell me the couldn’t flip 15inch screen horizontally and widen the digital tach?..and that along with no 3.5 power bump OR powerboost option no soft close doors no 30 way seats for 2nd row no fully customizable/ enlarged center UI/screen with 3D maps Nightvision now Keep in mind that The Escalade has been rumored to be getting an engine higher output/high performance model. Even with the introduction of electric vehicles, Ford still doesn’t seem intent on Lincoln truly be the best they can be. These mild updates work in segment that are dead end BUT no matter how limited the number are, the full-size luxury SUV segment is a money PRINTER, and when you’ve (Lincoln) finally caught up, you don’t sit there and do minor updates while waiting model years on new product. you ever see MB standing pat and waiting for things for the Sclass? Heck no! HELL do you ever ever see Ford minor updating or standing pat with the F150? HE** NO!…and just that “minor update, wait 2 more years” mindset is exactly why I’m stil concerned about Lincoln I agree with you. I don't understand what the people at Ford think, it doesn't make any sense to have a Navi with less power than the Aviator and other products and I am really disappointed with the refresh. As you say, it is really incredible to see that the Expy will get a 15in and the Navi only gets the same 13.2in as the Nautilus (specially that nowadays everything is about the screens size). Also no augmented reality, night vision, screen with 3d maps and fully customizable instrument cluster (the Escalade already has these features). As a luxury brand you have to first launch all the tech a designs on your top vehicle and then spread all to the lesser models. Now that Lincoln is already in the game, they need to keep improving, you can take MB as example, they keep improving and launching great products: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 13 hours ago, dds010 said: All that may be true, but like I said, do you ever see MB do minor update/stand pat/wait couple years with their SClass, but yet, you ever seen FORD do that with the F150, and the F150 has led its segment in every imaginable way for over 30 years, but the same damn company finally catches up with Caddy in product image and they do minor updates when Caddy just launched a completely new product as will also introduce a hotter version. See it’s that train of thought that got Lincoln and the Navigator buried under the dirt in the first place Youve been losing mightly (in sales #s and ATPs) for almost 15years and when you finally start catching up you instantly want to take a water break?, but the same company who wipes the floor in pickup sales NEVER EVER rest, see any correlation? 18 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said: I agree with you. I don't understand what the people at Ford think, it doesn't make any sense to have a Navi with less power than the Aviator and other products and I am really disappointed with the refresh. As you say, it is really incredible to see that the Expy will get a 15in and the Navi only gets the same 13.2in as the Nautilus (specially that nowadays everything is about the screens size). Also no augmented reality, night vision, screen with 3d maps and fully customizable instrument cluster (the Escalade already has these features). As a luxury brand you have to first launch all the tech a designs on your top vehicle and then spread all to the lesser models. Now that Lincoln is already in the game, they need to keep improving, you can take MB as example, they keep improving and launching great products: I'm addressing both comments in one reply. I'm not disagreeing with the thought that more could have been done. But I will push back some - I wonder if Ford was also hesistant to launch too many new things in this wiht the state of chips and whatnot? i.e. maybe they had some more things planned but pulled back in an effort to keep things in production? As I also said before, if there's a year shorter timeline for replacement, it also makes sense they didn't change too much. One thing I will push back more heavily on is the MB comparison - the pictures above are all new vehicles - the S-class and hideous EQS - an unfair comparison to a refreshed Navigator. The outgoing S-class went from 2014-2020, and its refresh included new headlight and taillight graphics, a new lower front bumper, and a new steering wheel. So let's not pretend they swapped out the entire interior or something for a refresh. GM doesn't even refresh the SUVs, they just wait for a redesign. Again, I'm agreeing more could have been done, but from the manufacturing side of it, I understand the potential reasons for not doing more, even if others can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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