Auto News: Explorer/Aviator EV in 2023

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Where does Escape fit? Or does it fit at all? Not suggesting it has the brand equity of some of those listed, but it's a relatively large volume product in a key segment in which Ford claim to want to be (small SUV). 

Very good question if they’re making a Corsair EV wouldnt they make an Escape EV seeing as how they’re on the same platform?! 

[Harley Lover]

38 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Very good question if they’re making a Corsair EV wouldnt they make an Escape EV seeing as how they’re on the same platform?! 

 

Makes perfect sense, my question was in the context of premierdrum's post about families of vehicles (Bronco, etc.) and I was wondering how Escape fits in that thought process.

[PREMiERdrum]

10 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Makes perfect sense, my question was in the context of premierdrum's post about families of vehicles (Bronco, etc.) and I was wondering how Escape fits in that thought process.

Maverick, Escape, et al are the exceptions to this strategy, as they're more solution-based vehicles than comprehensive portfolio items. In this segment, I expect modular development across multiple vehicles with each retaining their own identity. 

[Harley Lover]

49 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But the current Explorer isn't going anywhere and there is a considerable difference in size between the Mach E C platform and the current Explorer. 

 

It would make far more sense for Explorer Sport BEV to be based on a larger Mach E platform then it replacing the Explorer proper, esp with the timing. 

The Mach E is about 2 inches narrower and 3 inches shorter in overall length then the Edge. Not sure if they would make the CD sized BEV taller to make it more SUV like though, since that would impact range?

 

Then again going by the Spy photos of the Mach E Mule here-it def has a longer wheelbase and it will def sit up higher then the MME

https://fordauthority.com/2021/07/ford-mustang-mach-e-mule-is-actually-a-future-lincoln-electric-vehicle/

 

 

It's right there in the OP, the Explorer/Aviator EV's will ride on the GE2 chassis: "The Explorer and Aviator will sit on a new rear-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive EV platform, one of two new dedicated EV architectures Ford announced in May. The other is for full-size pickups." And "Both vehicles will be distinct from the standard versions".

Not sure what that means for Edge's future, if it has one.

 

[Harley Lover]

8 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Maverick, Escape, et al are the exceptions to this strategy, as they're more solution-based vehicles than comprehensive portfolio items. In this segment, I expect modular development across multiple vehicles with each retaining their own identity. 

 

How similar are Escape/Maverick/next gen Transit Connect/Bronco Sport in terms of chassis? Can Ford gain economies of scale by (eventually) using the same hybrid drivetrain toolkit across all of these products?

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But the Explorer has zero association with the Mach nameplate, unlike the Mustang. 

We've had the following:
Explorer Sport (2 door)

Explorer Sport Trac

So maybe Explorer Sport BEV?

 

 

Didn't Ford trademark the adrenaline name awhile back? Calling a more performance oriented explorer the explorer adrenaline might be kinda cool. 

[akirby]

13 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Not sure what that means for Edge's future, if it has one.

 

It should use the VW platform.

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Remember that Ford is really hot right now on building distinct vehicle "families," the validation of which is bringing their portfolio in line with customer expectations from other consumer goods markets. 

 

Each family will be able to support 3 to 5 models, with maybe an exception or two:

F-150 Family

SuperDuty Family

Transit Family

Ranger Family

Mustang Family

Expedition Family

Explorer Family

Bronco Family

Edge Family / Fusion Family

As long as their standards and hallmarks for each brand remain focused and enforced - and they are doing a great job of this so far - it's a great strategy that maximizes consumer outreach efforts and positions the brand better that a broader portfolio of disparate products. 

Turning some of their most iconic nameplates in sub-brands really has been a masterstroke for Ford. I'm especially 

excited to see how they decide to expand the mustang line-up in the future.

[silvrsvt]

25 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

It's right there in the OP, the Explorer/Aviator EV's will ride on the GE2 chassis: "The Explorer and Aviator will sit on a new rear-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive EV platform, one of two new dedicated EV architectures Ford announced in May. The other is for full-size pickups." And "Both vehicles will be distinct from the standard versions".

Not sure what that means for Edge's future, if it has one.

 

 

 

From this article, the GE2 is the C platform for the Mach E

https://www.automotive-iq.com/electrics-electronics/articles/mustang-mach-e-looks-like-ford-did-it-right

From this one:

Ford earlier this year introduced the Mustang Mach-E, an electric crossover built on a new dedicated platform with the internal designation GE, the sources said.

A newer version of that platform, designated GE2, will debut in mid-2023, underpinning new Ford and Lincoln SUVs, according to Sam Fiorani, head of global forecasting at AutoForecast Solutions.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/exclusive-ford-follows-gm-vw-with-two-new-dedicated-ev-platforms-by-2025-sources-2021-05-25/

 

So that is telling me that the GE2 is an improved Mach E platform

 

Long story short to make this easy to understand:

Mustang Mach E (GE based on C platform)
"Explorer Sport BEV" (GE2 PIP GE platform)

"Aviator BEV" (same as above)
Explorer and Aviator-ICE-CD6 platform

 

The new Explorer/Aviator will be smaller then the current Explorer/Aviator and will be slotted as BEV replacements for the Edge and Nautilus or as supplemental products. The GE platform isn't wide enough to support the current Explorer/Aviator platform.

 

The current Explorer/Aviator will carry on as a ICE/PHEV/HEV til 2030 or so, then go to their own BEV platform, unless Ford is trying to push BEVs alot harder then we are expecting, but that is going to cause issues with the UAW. 

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

From this article, the GE2 is the C platform for the Mach E

https://www.automotive-iq.com/electrics-electronics/articles/mustang-mach-e-looks-like-ford-did-it-right

From this one:
 

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/exclusive-ford-follows-gm-vw-with-two-new-dedicated-ev-platforms-by-2025-sources-2021-05-25/

 

So that is telling me that the GE2 is an improved Mach E platform

 

Long story short to make this easy to understand:

Mustang Mach E (GE based on C platform)
"Explorer Sport BEV" (GE2 PIP GE platform)

"Aviator BEV" (same as above)
Explorer and Aviator-ICE-CD6 platform

 

The new Explorer/Aviator will be smaller then the current Explorer/Aviator and will be slotted as BEV replacements for the Edge and Nautilus or as supplemental products. The GE platform isn't wide enough to support the current Explorer/Aviator platform.

 

The current Explorer/Aviator will carry on as a ICE/PHEV/HEV til 2030 or so, then go to their own BEV platform, unless Ford is trying to push BEVs alot harder then we are expecting, but that is going to cause issues with the UAW. 

 

You are splitting hair a bit.

 

We've known for a while the upcoming Mexico EV is GE2 and it had been assumed that they will replace Edge because it is older and in need of replacement. We knew CD6 Explorer will live on for a while and its ultimate replacement was further down the road.

 

What's now more clear, if you believe the article posted in OP, is that Ford is not planning to replace Edge. They are apparently going with an Explorer sub-brand EV while keeping Explorer ICE going as long as they can (I wrote in another thread before that I think using Explorer name on more CUV was probably a good idea).

 

You are also making an assumption that "Explorer Sport" as you call it, is smaller than Explorer. It's too early to say that... they are still in the mule stage so we don't know the exact dimension of the vehicle in question. Ford had said GE2 will be the platform for all current unibody vehicles larger than Kuga as it transitions to EV so that would include Explorer.

 

All I'm saying is that all this probably means Mach E for all intent and purpose has replaced Edge in product planning and cadence as the midsize 2-row EV CUV (indeed, Ford had confirmed GE2 Mach E is in the works). Ford is not going to make a Mach E size CUV with more cargo room and formal roof line like some people thought was going to happen. Instead, they are going to make a 3-row EV that more or less will plug in the line up close to Explorer (in size if not in name). 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by bzcat

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Turning some of their most iconic nameplates in sub-brands really has been a masterstroke for Ford. I'm especially 

excited to see how they decide to expand the mustang line-up in the future.

 

Yes sir DeluxeStang. Establishing and expanding the sub-brand concept is one of the biggest marketing successes in Ford's history.

[akirby]

Or they do a 2 and 3 row Explorer BEV.

 

So the thinking is Corsair BEV goes to OAP but not Edge?

[silvrsvt]

48 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

All I'm saying is that all this probably means Mach E for all intent and purpose has replaced Edge in product planning and cadence as the midsize 2-row EV CUV (indeed, Ford had confirmed GE2 Mach E is in the works). Ford is not going to make a Mach E size CUV with more cargo room and formal roof line like some people thought was going to happen. Instead, they are going to make a 3-row EV that more or less will plug in the line up close to Explorer (in size if not in name). 

 

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing-But I don't agree with the 3 row (at least in North America) slotting below the Explorer, there isn't enough room IMO

The mule I posted before doesn't show any huge changes in overall length or width with the Mach E body over it, which leads me to believe that Its going to be roughly the size of the current Edge-the MME is roughly the size of the Escape now. 

 

The current Explorer is about 10 inches longer and 3 inches wider then the current Edge.

[bzcat]

51 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing-But I don't agree with the 3 row (at least in North America) slotting below the Explorer, there isn't enough room IMO

The mule I posted before doesn't show any huge changes in overall length or width with the Mach E body over it, which leads me to believe that Its going to be roughly the size of the current Edge-the MME is roughly the size of the Escape now. 

 

The current Explorer is about 10 inches longer and 3 inches wider then the current Edge.

 

Mach E is much longer than Escape. It is a very close to Edge in all dimensions except wheelbase due to it being an EV. Pretty sure the 3-row EV will come in close to Explorer size like Mach E is to Edge. It doesn't need to be as big as CD6 Explorer because you gain a lot more cabin space by pushing the front wheels forward.

 

Escape: 180.5" x 74.1" x 66.1" // 106.7"

Mach E: 186.6" x 74.1" x 63.8" // 117.5"

Edge: 188.1" x 75.9" x 68.6" // 112.2"

<<GE2 "Explorer" perhaps about 196" long >>

Explorer: 198.8" x 78.9" x 69.9" // 119.1"

Edited August 30, 2021 by bzcat

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Or they do a 2 and 3 row Explorer BEV.

 

So the thinking is Corsair BEV goes to OAP but not Edge?

 

Corsair BEV (MEB platform) is already confirmed for Oakville. There will be other BEV in Oakville too but we don't know what they are yet. But probably all of them will be MEB based. 

 

Maybe you are thinking Nautilus BEV? My guess is we are talking about Lincoln version of next gen GE2 Mach E. And right now I don't think there is any reason to think they will leave Mexico.

 

GE2 Explorer/Aviator - Cuautitlán (2023)

MEB Corsair/Escape - Oakville (2023 for Corsair, sometime later for Escape)

GE2 Mach E/Nautilus - Cuautitlán (2025?)

[JayXJ]

3 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Very good question if they’re making a Corsair EV wouldnt they make an Escape EV seeing as how they’re on the same platform?! 

Looks like Oakville is getting the Mach E too as Ford plans to move GE2 based Mach E to Ontario by 2026.

Quote

Ford plans to move the Mach-E to its Oakville Assembly Plant in Ontario in 2026, when it will be redesigned on a new platform.

https://www.autonews.com/future-product/future-product-familiar-ford-models-go-electric

[Gurgeh]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Very good question if they’re making a Corsair EV wouldnt they make an Escape EV seeing as how they’re on the same platform?! 

Does make sense, but maybe not right away? Although the costs of building an all-electric are coming down, are they far enough down currently to generate good enough profits given the price folks are likely willing to pay for something using the Escape name?

[akirby]

15 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

Does make sense, but maybe not right away? Although the costs of building an all-electric are coming down, are they far enough down currently to generate good enough profits given the price folks are likely willing to pay for something using the Escape name?

Personally I don’t think so.  I think Mach-E is the smallest/cheapest we’ll see for a few years. 

[rmc523]

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But the Explorer has zero association with the Mach nameplate, unlike the Mustang. 

We've had the following:
Explorer Sport (2 door)

Explorer Sport Trac

So maybe Explorer Sport BEV?

 

 

 

Explorer Edge is a low hanging fruit lol.

 

7 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

And I'll add...

 

If funding holds for this next round of Lincoln product updates and additions...  ?

 

That's exciting to hear!

 

4 hours ago, bzcat said:

If the mule was indeed Explorer EV rather than Edge EV, then I assume that means Ford thinks Mach E is the replacement for Edge.

 

We had assumed that Ford will make a square back version EV about the size of Mach E to replace Edge but maybe they don't intend to do so at all. 

 

I don't see that necessarily being true.  I don't think these Explorer/Aviator models are necessarily full replacements/direct parallels for the Explorer/Aviator that exist now, but rather models that fall under the naming umbrellas but different.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, alterbridge86 said:

That MME mule that's been spied looks kind of small to be an Explorer/Aviator, no? I thought that was looking more like an electric Corsair. Seems weird to introduce an EV Explorer/Aviator that isn't a full size three-row vehicle like the non-EV models. Then again before the Mach-E the Mustang name had nothing to do with an electric crossover, so I guess anything's possible lol.

The body has been shoved onto a much bigger chassis with a clearly longer wheelbase and wider track,

those two increased dimensions permit a three row SUV of similar size to the current Explorer and Aviator.

The mule we’re seeing is simply a chassis mule, some would say it’s an attribute prototype.

 

The plan looks to be that two row BEVs like  Edge/Nautilus and Escape/Corsair will be on MEB and built at Oakville in the second half of the decade. So for now, Ford’s main goal is to establish BEV like Lightning,

Explorer and Aviator. The full sized BEV platform arriving in the near future will cover Expedition/ Navigator.

 

People complaining about sales volume in first twelve months but this is about growing sales in the now before

ford starts directly replacing ICE sales….the big question is whether this is achievable without damaging ICE sales

before Ford is ready for the full switch. So maybe Lightning gets a year or so of being something different before

recognising that it’s the precursor to mainstream replacement on an all new platform.

 

Ford is talking a good game for electrification but that’s not happening in a vacuum, it’s competitors also have plans and are readying product deliveries in the near future. So there is a race to win buyers but will brand loyalty win out and allow Ford the time to hopefully get things right?

Edited August 30, 2021 by jpd80

[alterbridge86]

42 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The body has been shoved onto a much bigger chassis with a clearly longer wheelbase and wider track,

those two increased dimensions permit a three row SUV of similar size to the current Explorer and Aviator.

The mule we’re seeing is simply a chassis mule, some would say it’s an attribute prototype.

 

Ah OK in that context it makes more sense then, I didn't notice the chassis differences. Definitely excited to see what Ford has in the pipe for an electrified three row SUV.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, alterbridge86 said:

 

Ah OK in that context it makes more sense then, I didn't notice the chassis differences. Definitely excited to see what Ford has in the pipe for an electrified three row SUV.

Yes indeed, I think the three row BEV Explorer will be way better / more useful than Mustang Mach E, sales should be a ton more too

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford is talking a good game for electrification but that’s not happening in a vacuum, it’s competitors also have plans and are readying product deliveries in the near future. So there is a race to win buyers but will brand loyalty win out and allow Ford the time to hopefully get things right?

 

Good point about brand loyalty jpd80 sir. In the automotive industry, analysts and executives say that it's easier and more profitable to keep existing customers than to "conquest" customers from competitors. As the automotive industry transitions to 100% electric vehicles, I think that Ford's high brand loyalty (5th highest among mass market brands in the 2021 J.D. Power U.S. Automotive Brand Loyalty Study) can definitely help as the company tries to get "fit". 

 

 

However, IHS Markit reported last Friday that owner loyalty dropped to a 6 year low in 2021. Some of this is due to low new vehicle inventories. Some customers who were previously loyal to a brand are now buying whatever's available even if it means switching brands. This is especially pronounced among pickup truck customers but the decline in loyalty affects crossovers like Explorer too.  Brand Loyalty Among US Auto Consumers Drops to Six-Year Low | IHS Markit

[Harley Lover]

14 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Mach E is much longer than Escape. It is a very close to Edge in all dimensions except wheelbase due to it being an EV. Pretty sure the 3-row EV will come in close to Explorer size like Mach E is to Edge. It doesn't need to be as big as CD6 Explorer because you gain a lot more cabin space by pushing the front wheels forward.

 

Escape: 180.5" x 74.1" x 66.1" // 106.7"

Mach E: 186.6" x 74.1" x 63.8" // 117.5"

Edge: 188.1" x 75.9" x 68.6" // 112.2"

<<GE2 "Explorer" perhaps about 196" long >>

Explorer: 198.8" x 78.9" x 69.9" // 119.1"

 

Thanks bz for making this "easy to understand."

An underlying assumption in several posts seems to be that GE2 will be a static size dimensionally; although Ford haven't stated it, wouldn't it be possible that GE2 will be designed to have different wheelbases and widths, ala VW's MEB? After all, it's going to underpin quite a variety of vehicles.

[Oac98]

14 hours ago, JayXJ said:

Looks like Oakville is getting the Mach E too as Ford plans to move GE2 based Mach E to Ontario by 2026.

https://www.autonews.com/future-product/future-product-familiar-ford-models-go-electric

Thanks very interesting that’s 4 out of 5 EVs now announced for OAC.