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Auto News: Explorer/Aviator EV in 2023


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13 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

Does make sense, but maybe not right away? Although the costs of building an all-electric are coming down, are they far enough down currently to generate good enough profits given the price folks are likely willing to pay for something using the Escape name?

Well they say Mach-e at OAC so doubt escape will ever happen. 

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16 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing-But I don't agree with the 3 row (at least in North America) slotting below the Explorer, there isn't enough room IMO

The mule I posted before doesn't show any huge changes in overall length or width with the Mach E body over it, which leads me to believe that Its going to be roughly the size of the current Edge-the MME is roughly the size of the Escape now. 

 

The current Explorer is about 10 inches longer and 3 inches wider then the current Edge.

They’ve slapped a smaller BEV body on a much bigger skateboard so take no notice of overall size.

the wheelbase is longer than MME’s 117” and the track is much wider than MME as well so yeah,

GE2 is capable of delivering a similar sized Explorer as the current CD6.

 

What people are missing with MEB based vehicles is the huge opportunity to deliver affordable EVs

that have a cost base well below that of MME and the new GE2, it answered all of Hackett’s prayers.

So, if Ford saw merit in keeping MME on say, GE2, then it would probably stay put in Mexico and let

the affordable compact and mid sized  two row Utilities go to Oackville on MEB……..

 

The only other possibility is that MME, goes to a high series HP version of MEB, but would VW even allow that?

Thats why I’m thinking it will morph to GE2 and stay put in Mexico.

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56 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

They’ve slapped a smaller BEV body on a much bigger skateboard so take no notice of overall size.

the wheelbase is longer than MME’s 117” and the track is much wider than MME as well so yeah,

GE2 is capable of delivering a similar sized Explorer as the current CD6.

 

You can see the wheelbase shifted an inch or two vs MME on the Mule in the photos


The thing is that there was zero widening of the MME body on the prototype, any other prototype/mule we've seen from Ford normally has some sort of odd gaps to make up that room.

Guess we will see. 

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9 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You can see the wheelbase shifted an inch or two vs MME on the Mule in the photos


The thing is that there was zero widening of the MME body on the prototype, any other prototype/mule we've seen from Ford normally has some sort of odd gaps to make up that room.

Guess we will see. 

Wheelbase being a couple of inches longer makes it the same length as CD6 Explorer 

Also, look at the wheels extending outside the wheel arches, suggesting a it’s for a wider body.

 

IMO, this is an early chassis mule and the MME body is just to cover it and throw people off it’s real intent.

Edited by jpd80
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The chassis of the test mule is significantly wider than Mach E. Looks to me it is almost 4 or 5" wider, indicating a much larger vehicle overall - like Explorer size.

 

Escape: 180.5" x 74.1" x 66.1" // 106.7"

Mach E: 186.6" x 74.1" x 63.8" // 117.5"

Edge: 188.1" x 75.9" x 68.6" // 112.2"

<<GE2 "Explorer" perhaps about 196" x 78">>

Explorer: 198.8" x 78.9" x 69.9" // 119.1"

 

Future-Lincoln-Electric-Car-Mule-based-on-Ford-Mustang-Mach-E-Spy-Shots-July-2021-Exterior-014.jpg

2020_ford_mach-e_prenium_8.jpg

Edited by bzcat
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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense. 

 

I agree from Escape to Explorer is a huge gap.  Even though overall the MME and the Escape are similar in size, when you sit in them the Escape is much larger inside in the front and especially the back.  A lot of this is due to height I guess.

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22 minutes ago, tzach said:

 

I agree from Escape to Explorer is a huge gap.  Even though overall the MME and the Escape are similar in size, when you sit in them the Escape is much larger inside in the front and especially the back.  A lot of this is due to height I guess.


Escape is larger inside than Mach-E???

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5 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense. 

 

I think it's dumb to just throw the names away.

 

Though if they go a sort of "Grand Cherokee" route and do a shorter 2-row Explorer and Aviator instead, it'd make more sense.

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5 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense. 

From everything I read, Lincoln has a lot of all-new product coming in the next few years, but all of it all-electric. Lincoln has said that it will announce a new BEV in 2022 (probably coming at the end of the year as a 2023MY). I believe this will be a mid-sized 2-row crossover built on the second generation MME platform, which will fill the size space of the soon-to-be-retired Nautilus. Lincoln's press release said, "Lincoln will debut its first global fully electric vehicle next year..." I think the all-electric Aviator comes the following year. It seems that Lincoln might then for a time have two different types of Aviators. The Chicago-built ICE/PHEV and the (Mexico-built?) Aviator BEV. They might have a similar appearance, but will be completely different vehicles under the skin. Lincoln has said that by mid-decade their fleet will be half electric and will be fully electric by the end of the decade. As I've said here a number of times, I currently wouldn't want to purchase any of those all-electrics as I don't have the ability to do overnight charging. But that could change 2-3 years down the road.

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8 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense. 

 

Not really sure what Ford wants to do with Edge but they've been trying to reduce the volume on it for the last 3 years. Seems clear that they don't think it is a core product like Explorer or Escape and Mach E is more or less Edge's replacement.

 

Nautilus is going to come back I'm sure. There was news posted on last page that Ford is moving the next gen Mach E to Oakville. I think next gen Nautilus will be paired with next gen Mach E (instead of Edge). 

 

Escape <==> Corsair (2023 MEB)

Mach E <==> Nautilus (2025 GE2)

Explorer <==> Aviator (2023 GE2)

Expedition <==> Navigator (202? TE1)

 

And I expect the ICE version of most of these utilities to be kept in production largely unchanged until sales of them completely dries up.

 

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10 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I don't really view MME as an Edge replacement.

For better or worse, Ford sort-of does. I believe there will be a slightly larger all-electric 2-row crossover coming out real soon now built on a second generation BEV platform (second to the MME one). That is the one that will fully fill (at least in the mind of FMC) the Edge slot. They are planning the same thing on the Lincoln side of things with a new luxury Nautilus-sized 2-row mid-sized all-electric coming out the same year that Nautilus production ends (if I am remembering correctly).

Edited by Gurgeh
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On 8/30/2021 at 7:07 AM, silvrsvt said:

There was rumors a few months ago about Ford expanding the Explorer lineup and the model that was doing that would replace the Edge. The current ICE Explorer isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

I wonder if they'll call it an Explorer Sport BEV...LOL

They recently trademarked "Skyline"

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18 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The measurements on various vehicle comparison websites indicate Mach-E is larger than Escape on the inside except for headroom. For example, here are the numbers from consumerreports.org.

image.thumb.png.835112c389255983e2758264b2da52e3.png

 

I sat in both back to back and despite the numbers the Escape seemed roomier front and especially in the back.  Now I am 6' 2" and tall in the body so headroom does impact me a lot.

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16 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

From everything I read, Lincoln has a lot of all-new product coming in the next few years, but all of it all-electric. Lincoln has said that it will announce a new BEV in 2022 (probably coming at the end of the year as a 2023MY). I believe this will be a mid-sized 2-row crossover built on the second generation MME platform, which will fill the size space of the soon-to-be-retired Nautilus. Lincoln's press release said, "Lincoln will debut its first global fully electric vehicle next year..." I think the all-electric Aviator comes the following year. It seems that Lincoln might then for a time have two different types of Aviators. The Chicago-built ICE/PHEV and the (Mexico-built?) Aviator BEV. They might have a similar appearance, but will be completely different vehicles under the skin. Lincoln has said that by mid-decade their fleet will be half electric and will be fully electric by the end of the decade. As I've said here a number of times, I currently wouldn't want to purchase any of those all-electrics as I don't have the ability to do overnight charging. But that could change 2-3 years down the road.

 

All electric may work for Lincoln since so many of its buyers are retirees and have little need for charging stations most of the time. And many have the money to buy a luxury car as reward for record high stock prices. I live in retiree land and Lincoln products are very popular. Florida is big market for luxury cars.

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20 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

All electric may work for Lincoln since so many of its buyers are retirees and have little need for charging stations most of the time. And many have the money to buy a luxury car as reward for record high stock prices. I live in retiree land and Lincoln products are very popular. Florida is big market for luxury cars.

 

A 100% electric vehicle lineup is perfectly suited to the "Quiet Flight DNA" that is now part of Lincoln's brand positioning. The sooner Lincoln achieves that goal, and completely phases out ICE powered vehicles, the better chance Lincoln has for its own renaissance in the U.S. luxury vehicle market by becoming more relevant not just to retirees, but to the broader luxury car customer base.

Edited by rperez817
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1 hour ago, tzach said:

I sat in both back to back and despite the numbers the Escape seemed roomier front and especially in the back.  Now I am 6' 2" and tall in the body so headroom does impact me a lot.

The cited dimensions don't match what I found at roadandtrack.com.  They had the Escape larger in most seating dimensions except front hip and front shoulder.  Front shoulder were listed as equal and front hip was listed with the Mach E at 55.3 inches and the Escape at 55.2 inches.  The Escape had 2.6 inches more of rear leg room.  

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13 minutes ago, Havelock said:

The cited dimensions don't match what I found at roadandtrack.com.  They had the Escape larger in most seating dimensions except front hip and front shoulder.  Front shoulder were listed as equal and front hip was listed with the Mach E at 55.3 inches and the Escape at 55.2 inches.  The Escape had 2.6 inches more of rear leg room.  

 

You would think an all electric MME would have much more room than an Escape that has gas engine. I know Teslas are known for their superior roominess. Ford has never been good at creating extra interior volume. Getting better, but still room for improvement. Escape has decent cargo room, but lot less than CRV and RAV 4 for example.

 

 

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On 9/2/2021 at 11:56 AM, bzcat said:

 

Not really sure what Ford wants to do with Edge but they've been trying to reduce the volume on it for the last 3 years. Seems clear that they don't think it is a core product like Explorer or Escape and Mach E is more or less Edge's replacement.

 

Nautilus is going to come back I'm sure. There was news posted on last page that Ford is moving the next gen Mach E to Oakville. I think next gen Nautilus will be paired with next gen Mach E (instead of Edge). 

 

Escape <==> Corsair (2023 MEB)

Mach E <==> Nautilus (2025 GE2)

Explorer <==> Aviator (2023 GE2)

Expedition <==> Navigator (202? TE1)

 

And I expect the ICE version of most of these utilities to be kept in production largely unchanged until sales of them completely dries up.

 

With that, Ford will need to rebalance ICE production with increasing BEV production 

what that means in regards to transitioning plants to BEV production will be interesting…

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On 9/3/2021 at 2:27 AM, FordBuyer said:

 

You would think an all electric MME would have much more room than an Escape that has gas engine. I know Teslas are known for their superior roominess. Ford has never been good at creating extra interior volume. Getting better, but still room for improvement. Escape has decent cargo room, but lot less than CRV and RAV 4 for example.

 

Remember the origin of the MME was based on the proposed E C-Max which was reset with better purpose. Even though the proportions were changed, the vehicle remained Escape size but with RWD/AWD configuration. If Ford was developing a new MME today, it would be on GE2 architecture and better proportions width wise…..look at the MME mule and imagine slightly wider body (2” to 3”) with big fat tires and wheel arches.

Edited by jpd80
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