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Edge/Nautilus Dead for '23


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23 minutes ago, twintornados said:

With more emphasis on SUV's and CUV's, both Edge and Nautilus are becoming redundant in the line. Ford could, but wont, build a two row version of Explorer / Aviator and call it a day for Edge / Nautilus replacements but the EV revolution is throwing an electric curve ball at the line up.

 

I am curious what Edge is redundant with in Fords lineup?

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Seems odd to just toss the whole Edge name and market in the trash. It has very good name recognition and while it never has been the most exciting of Ford names it is really untarnished in quality side of things. 

There is nothing size wise short of the Mach-E in the stable in the  NA Market unless Ford is planning on bringing the NG Everest over with a 4 wheel independent suspension I don't see many Edge owners staying with Ford. The Escape and BS are smaller than the Edge, and the full-sized Bronco is considerably less refined than even the current Edge for a lot of shoppers, and the Explorer is considerably bigger for others. 

Edited by jasonj80
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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

With more emphasis on SUV's and CUV's, both Edge and Nautilus are becoming redundant in the line. Ford could, but wont, build a two row version of Explorer / Aviator and call it a day for Edge / Nautilus replacements but the EV revolution is throwing an electric curve ball at the line up.

The CD6 Edge / Nautilus was to be that two row version of Explorer/ Edge you mentioned.

The lack of hybrid / PHEV  in the current Edge/ Nautilus makes it hard to justify continuing.

 

Oakville needs something to build between 2022 and 2025, I can’t believe that UNIFOR 

agreement hasn’t already nailed this down. Just keep building AWD Edge/ Nautilus.

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

The CD6 Edge / Nautilus was to be that two row version of Explorer/ Edge you mentioned.

The lack of hybrid / PHEV  in the current Edge/ Nautilus makes it hard to justify continuing.

 

Oakville needs something to build between 2022 and 2025, I can’t believe that UNIFOR 

agreement hasn’t already nailed this down. Just keep building AWD Edge/ Nautilus.


There also has to be some kind of downtime for retooling, and I'm guessing they expect that to take at least 6 months but probably more like a year just reading tea leaves. This is as big of a plant transformation as converting MAP from FWD/Unibody construction to RWD/4x4/BOF construction was. The difference is they can afford to take their time with it even more so than they could with MAP, likely to the dismay of UNIFOR. So if MY2022 is the last, assuming they stretch production out as long as they can that puts it ending late CY2022. Figure 6-12 months for retooling and the first preproduction units for these new BEVs should hypothetically be coming off the line sometime in the second half of CY2023, and would make them MY2024. Not that unreasonable TBH. 
 

Im also wondering if the timeline for these new BEVs is shorter than we all thought. They've been bragging (rightfully so) that development time for Maverick was cut in half from the old normal so it stands to reason that it's only getting shorter and/or they’re much farther along than we all thought. We are already seeing mules after all. 
 


 

 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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49 minutes ago, tzach said:

 

I am curious what Edge is redundant with in Fords lineup?


Just looking at 2 row crossover utilities - Escape, MME, Bronco Sport.  Not identical but they are all 2 row crossovers and have to be cross shopped a little.  Then there is Bronco.

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7 hours ago, akirby said:


Just looking at 2 row crossover utilities - Escape, MME, Bronco Sport.  Not identical but they are all 2 row crossovers and have to be cross shopped a little.  Then there is Bronco.

Comparing C2 Escape to CD4 Edge, the Edge is wider and has a couple of inches more hip and shoulder room.

 

So the answer could be one vehicle like Escape  made slightly wider to cover both vehicles….also more product separation from Bronco Sport

 

Getting back to CD4 Edge/Nautilus at Oakville, I think they’ll just dead leg the current vehicle like they did with Fusion, cut down build choices to most popular types and maybe run to the end of 2023 taking the plant down in 2024 for about a year.

Edited by jpd80
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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It became redundant when Escape became bigger and has better interior space utilization. 

 

16 hours ago, akirby said:


Just looking at 2 row crossover utilities - Escape, MME, Bronco Sport.  Not identical but they are all 2 row crossovers and have to be cross shopped a little.  Then there is Bronco.

 

Not only is the Edge a good amount larger than Escape, there is no comparison in the perceived level of the two.   Never mind the size no one is cross shopping Bronco Sport  with Edge and Bronco is such a different animal (no pun intended).  Now Mach E while significantly smaller does have a higher end feel probably even higher than Edge but at this point in time BEV are not on enough peoples radar to make it a viable alternative.  I get not having a replacement gasser but keep the current one around until it dies out at least.  This will definitely leave a big hole in the line up. 

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17 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It became redundant when Escape became bigger and has better interior space utilization. 

 

Escape is a cut and dried compact SUV. 

Escape is to Edge what the RAV4 is to Highlander over at Toyota... or Focus was to Fusion a few years ago at Ford.  

 

Killing Edge leaves a pretty glaring hole in Ford's lineup.   

 

A shortened 2-row version of the RWD would Explorer be a great replacement.  

Edge's biggest problem right now is that it is too close in price to Explorer.  

Edited by ESP08
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27 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

The new Venza (similar to JDM Harrier) is now the analogous Toyota product to Ford Edge.

 

And it comes as hybrid only. Maybe Ford hopes many Edge owners will migrate to Escape hybrid over time. However, Escape is a compact and Edge is midsized. Sounds like maybe Ford doesn't want to spend the money go develop an all new Edge on separate platform. 

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Several people say Ford won't develop any more ICE vehicles, so a C2 or CD6 replacement for Edge is out of the question.  Since Ford has no other vehicles on CD4, moving the current Edge to another factory doesn't seem to be an option. Seems like the long term future for the Chicago and Louisville plants may be in question, since Explorer EV is going to Mexico and Escape EV is going to Ontario. I'd just get an Explorer myself since it is only about 10 inches longer than Edge. 

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18 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It became redundant when Escape became bigger and has better interior space utilization. 

Having owned both, the Edge certainly has a larger feel. The biggest size increase is in the cargo area. I was able to fit an entire replacement screen sliding door in the Edge cargo area. No dice in the Escape. Much more room for luggage for vacations in the Edge as well. Having said all that, the sweet spot for me at least would be a vehicle in between the Edge and Escape in terms of size.

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1 hour ago, Alex D. said:

Having owned both, the Edge certainly has a larger feel. The biggest size increase is in the cargo area. I was able to fit an entire replacement screen sliding door in the Edge cargo area. No dice in the Escape. Much more room for luggage for vacations in the Edge as well. Having said all that, the sweet spot for me at least would be a vehicle in between the Edge and Escape in terms of size.


You’re comparing to the old Escape not the new one.  It’s bigger.

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20 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


Seems odd to just toss the whole Edge name and market in the trash. It has very good name recognition and while it never has been the most exciting of Ford names it is really untarnished in quality side of things. 

There is nothing size wise short of the Mach-E in the stable in the  NA Market unless Ford is planning on bringing the NG Everest over with a 4 wheel independent suspension I don't see many Edge owners staying with Ford. The Escape and BS are smaller than the Edge, and the full-sized Bronco is considerably less refined than even the current Edge for a lot of shoppers, and the Explorer is considerably bigger for others. 

It seems like the plan may be to offer a smaller two row explorer to replace the edge. This would make sense, the explorer has much stronger name recognition, and better styling.

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The new Escape is bigger and Bronco Sport is big inside.  The specs are a lot closer than some of you realize.  The only significant difference is shoulder room .

 

dimension.    Escape.   Edge.   Bronco Sport

head room.    40.           40.2.     41.5

leg room.       42.4         42.6.      42.4

hip room.       55.2.        55.9.     55.2

shoulder.        57.6         60.3.     57.3

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8 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

It seems like the plan may be to offer a smaller two row explorer to replace the edge. This would make sense, the explorer has much stronger name recognition, and better styling.


I think they’re going to stick with Escape, Bronco Sport and Explorer on the ICE side and go BEV with the rest.

 

While they may not be direct competitors on paper I think it’s guaranteed that Escape, Bronco Sport and Maverick will steal quite a few edge buyers and that, along with the new BEVs is a much better business proposition than trying to design and build a new C2 Edge.

 

Factory space may be the biggest issue.  With OAP going to BEVs along with Cuatitlan and Hermosillo having at least 3 products it would have to share space with Escape and there isn’t enough capacity there for both.

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51 minutes ago, akirby said:

The new Escape is bigger and Bronco Sport is big inside.  The specs are a lot closer than some of you realize.  The only significant difference is shoulder room .

 

dimension.    Escape.   Edge.   Bronco Sport

head room.    40.           40.2.     41.5

leg room.       42.4         42.6.      42.4

hip room.       55.2.        55.9.     55.2

shoulder.        57.6         60.3.     57.3


The difference is in the back seat and cargo area. Yes the Escape can match the Edge in rear leg room, but you lose a lot of the cargo area when the seats are back. 

 In the Edge you can have

Edge 39.2 Seats up, 74.3 Seats Down
Escape 37.5 Seats up, 65.4 Seats Down
BS 32.5 (29.4 w/2.0L) Seats up and 65.2 (60.2 w/2.0L) Seats Down

Edge
Second-row headroom 40.3
Second-row legroom 40.6
Second-row shoulder room 60.5
Second-row hip room 57.5

 

Escape
Rear Head Room    39.3 in.

Rear Leg Room    40.7 in. (Seats all the way back)
Rear Shoulder Room    56.0 in.
Rear Hip Room    53.3 in.

Bronco Sport
Rear Head Room    41.7 in.
Rear Leg Room    36.9 in.
Rear Shoulder Room    55.6 in.
Rear Hip Room    53.4 in.


Part of this is capacity issues, Ford doesn't have a plant to build an ICE Edge without importing it.

Edited by jasonj80
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2 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


The difference is in the back seat and cargo area. Yes the Escape can match the Edge in rear leg room, but you lose a lot of the cargo area when the seats are back. 

 In the Edge you can have

Edge 39.2 Seats up, 74.3 Seats Down
Escape 37.5 Seats up, 65.4 Seats Down
BS 32.5 (29.4 w/2.0L) Seats up and 65.2 (60.2 w/2.0L) Seats Down

Edge
Second-row headroom 40.3
Second-row legroom 40.6
Second-row shoulder room 60.5
Second-row hip room 57.5

 

Escape
Rear Head Room    39.3 in.

Rear Leg Room    40.7 in. (Seats all the way back)
Rear Shoulder Room    56.0 in.
Rear Hip Room    53.3 in.

Bronco Sport
Rear Head Room    41.7 in.
Rear Leg Room    36.9 in.
Rear Shoulder Room    55.6 in.
Rear Hip Room    53.4 in.


Part of this is capacity issues, Ford doesn't have a plant to build an ICE Edge without importing it.


Agreed but not all buyers care about the extra cargo room.  Some do.  And I mentioned the plant capacity being a major driver.

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I don't think production space has anything to do with Edge getting the axe. The reason in my opinion is simply that Edge has no internal champion at Ford to keep it going. Edge was one of the last One-Ford era product where different regions are told to work together on a core product and customize it for local tastes. Once One-Ford was let go, each region went back to what is best for themselves and the global-collab vehicles like Mondeo/Fusion and Edge quickly lost favor and momentum.

 

Ford Europe gave up on Edge and tried to argue for a LWB Kuga. They see what VW is doing and just want to copy it - from their point of view, a 3-row Kuga like VW Tiguan Allspace makes a lot more sense than 2-row Edge which in Europe was competing with VW Touareg. Ford Europe would rather import Explorer for that purpose. The LWB Kuga was reportedly approved but kind of disappeared once Farley decided to use VW MEB to accelerate European EV models.

 

Ford US tried to get a CD6 Edge approved and when they didn't get their way, they lost interest in Edge too. No one wants to be on a vehicle team that just lost an internal battle. Whether you agree with it or not it doesn't matter. The reality is internally, Ford's midsize CUV in the US market is Mach E - that's the model that already got the greenlight for next gen when the first gen is in its first model year. Edge is going on 7th model year and no one wants to present another replacement idea to upper management because what happened to CD6 Edge. Better to just hitch your resume wagon to a program on the upswing... like Mach E.

 

Ford China was a big champion of Edge but they wanted a 7 seat CUV. So Ford gave China some leeway to modify the CD4 Edge. But sales has been lackluster as it coincided with Ford's great collapse in China. Ford China has moved on to Explorer and Equator which are both more on point for the market. For the 2-row midsize CUV market in China, Ford like everyone else saw the market moving to "coupe" form factor and so all the eggs is now in the Evos basket (and Mach E for the EV side).

 

So Edge is orphaned unlike Puma and Escape which has strong backing from Ford Europe, or Explorer and Bronco which have Ford US in its corner, or Ford Equator and Evos which are Ford China projects. Orphaned One-Ford era models like Edge with no strong regional support system are getting cancelled left and right at Ford.

 

 

 

 

Edited by bzcat
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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

I don't think production space has anything to do with Edge getting the axe. The reason in my opinion is simply that Edge has no internal champion at Ford to keep it going. Edge was one of the last One-Ford era product where different regions are told to work together on a core product and customize it for local tastes. Once One-Ford was let go, each region went back to what is best for themselves and the global-collab vehicles like Mondeo/Fusion and Edge quickly lost favor and momentum.

 

Ford Europe gave up on Edge and tried to argue for a LWB Kuga. They see what VW is doing and just want to copy it - from their point of view, a 3-row Kuga like VW Tiguan Allspace makes a lot more sense than 2-row Edge which in Europe was competing with VW Touareg. Ford Europe would rather import Explorer for that purpose. The LWB Kuga was reportedly approved but kind of disappeared once Farley decided to use VW MEB to accelerate European EV models.

 

Ford US tried to get a CD6 Edge approved and when they didn't get their way, they lost interest in Edge too. No one wants to be on a vehicle team that just lost an internal battle. Whether you agree with it or not it doesn't matter. The reality is internally, Ford's midsize CUV in the US market is Mach E - that's the model that already got the greenlight for next gen when the first gen is in its first model year. Edge is going on 7th model year and no one wants to present another replacement idea to upper management because what happened to CD6 Edge. Better to just hitch your resume wagon to a program on the upswing... like Mach E.

 

Ford China was a big champion of Edge but they wanted a 7 seat CUV. So Ford gave China some leeway to modify the CD4 Edge. But sales has been lackluster as it coincided with Ford's great collapse in China. Ford China has moved on to Explorer and Equator which are both more on point for the market. For the 2-row midsize CUV market in China, Ford like everyone else saw the market moving to "coupe" form factor and so all the eggs is now in the Evos basket (and Mach E for the EV side).

 

So Edge is orphaned unlike Puma and Escape which has strong backing from Ford Europe, or Explorer and Bronco which have Ford US in its corner, or Ford Equator and Evos which are Ford China projects. Orphaned One-Ford era models like Edge with no strong regional support system are getting cancelled left and right at Ford.

 

 

 

 

You make some good points. Ford has plenty of capacity to build a new Edge if they had decided to - the Escape plant could probably turn out 100,000/year and Flat Rock probably double that amount. Ford isn’t capacity constrained- the issue is excess capacity. 

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