'21 August Sales Report

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, WillSD said:

F-Series expanded their full-size pickup leadership again in August:

 

August (Month):  Ford  57,321   Chevrolet  40,448   Ram  40,257   GMC  17,582    (General Motors  58,030)

 

August (YTD):  Ford 471,667   Ram  395,095   Chevrolet  377,596   GMC  178,055   (General Motors  555,651)

 

 

Thanks WillSD for sharing the numbers, but those numbers show that General Motors is the leader in full-size pickup truck sales both in August 2021 and January-August 2021.

[WillSD]

@rperez817 - -  The sales leadership "crown" is a marketing tool which is brand specific; thus the General Motors twins are not combined since they are separate brands.   I have included the combined General Motors figures for full disclosure (@jpd80 ) .

Edited September 6, 2021 by WillSD

[rperez817]

30 minutes ago, WillSD said:

@rperez817 - -  The sales leadership "crown" is a marketing tool which is brand specific; thus the General Motors twins are not combined since they are separate brands.   I have included the combined General Motors figures for full disclosure (@jpd80 ) .

 

Thanks for the clarification WillSD sir!

[silvrsvt]

For people bitching about the F-150 pricing, a Ranger is overkill for 80% of users and the Maverick is about 40-50% overkill for most users. 
 

95-99% of the time these trucks will be used just to move a single person around. 
 

There are alternatives that are cheaper that offer just transportation.

 

The possibilities that a truck can offer is a luxury, not a need for the vast majority of buyers.  

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

For people bitching about the F-150 pricing, a Ranger is overkill for 80% of users and the Maverick is about 40-50% overkill for most users. 
 

95-99% of the time these trucks will be used just to move a single person around. 
 

There are alternatives that are cheaper that offer just transportation.

 

The possibilities that a truck can offer is a luxury, not a need for the vast majority of buyers.  

 

The average pickup owner that needs it as work machine probably only needs a single cab or at most super cab. Then it will fit in most garages and make for a more functional bed. Many seem to want a crew cab when 99% of the time all they need is 2dr. cab.

 

Ditto for 2 row vs. 3 row CUV. My neighborhood is full of 3 row CUV's, and 3rd row is never used or rarely, and when 3rd row is up, cargo space is minimal. Kind of like paying for 3,000 square foot home when all you need and use is 2,000 square foot if that. 

[CKNSLS]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

For people bitching about the F-150 pricing, a Ranger is overkill for 80% of users and the Maverick is about 40-50% overkill for most users. 
 

95-99% of the time these trucks will be used just to move a single person around. 
 

There are alternatives that are cheaper that offer just transportation.

 

The possibilities that a truck can offer is a luxury, not a need for the vast majority of buyers.  

 

You know there are other factors such as emotions that go along with vehicle purchases..don' you? Many of us could get by with a Fiesta (or the like). They certainly do in many parts of Europe.

[FordBuyer]

11 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

You know there are other factors such as emotions that go along with vehicle purchases..don' you? Many of us could get by with a Fiesta (or the like). They certainly do in many parts of Europe.

 

The old emotional battle....need vs. want. Basis of happiness is learning how to love what you have instead of yearning for what you don't have. In the end, the things that matter most can't be bought at any price. 

[CKNSLS]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

The old emotional battle....need vs. want. Basis of happiness is learning how to love what you have instead of yearning for what you don't have. In the end, the things that matter most can't be bought at any price. 

Life's too short to drive around in an Econo Box-IMHO.  

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

You know there are other factors such as emotions that go along with vehicle purchases..don' you? 

 

Sales and marketing people at Ford certainly do. They are masters at convincing prospective customers to spend more money on products and services they don't need by appealing to emotions, as FordBuyer very nicely described.

 

This strategy plays perfectly with making quality of sales > quantity of sales for Ford.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by rperez817

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

Life's too short to drive around in an Econo Box-IMHO.  

Then don’t bitch about pricing either of a full sized pickup when there are (going to be) two cheaper options. 
 

it is what it is. Pricing of things always go up (outside of electronics that are up dated every year or two) parents bought a house almost 40

years ago for 26k. They sold it for 200k more then what they paid when they sold it it almost 20 years ago.  Need to check what it costs now. 

[CKNSLS]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Then don’t bitch about pricing either of a full sized pickup when there are (going to be) two cheaper options. 
 

it is what it is. Pricing of things always go up (outside of electronics that are up dated every year or two) parents bought a house almost 40

years ago for 26k. They sold it for 200k more then what they paid when they sold it it almost 20 years ago.  Need to check what it costs now. 

Let's clarify-That $60,000.00 pickup truck that you now order on Ford's website -two years ago would have been a $48,000.00 or $50,000.00 pickup during "truck month" not that long ago.  You are talking a little more than inflation.... alot more. My $54,000.00 Silverado I bought off the lot in 2018-was $42,000.00 (plus taxes/fees) and was 5,000.00 cheaper than the F-150 at that point in time.  

 

Now-Ford just has to see if GM and RAM will play nice. You are not going to see discounts on the new Tundra. Still will be buying a new truck next year-the Tundra's new look-while certainly not exciting-isn't offensive either-now that we have seen some REAL PICTURES. Can't see myself buying another GM product. So-it's Ford or Toyota.

Edited September 6, 2021 by CKNSLS

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

Let's clarify-That $60,000.00 pickup truck that you now order on Ford's website -two years ago would have been a $48,000.00 or $50,000.00 pickup during "truck month" not that long ago.  You are talking a little more than inflation.... alot more. My $54,000.00 Silverado I bought off the lot in 2018-was $42,000.00 (plus taxes/fees) and was 5,000.00 cheaper than the F-150 at that point in time.  

 

Now-Ford just has to see if GM and RAM will play nice. You are not going to see discounts on the new Tundra. Still will be buying a new truck next year-the Tundra's new look-while certainly not exciting-isn't offensive either-now that we have seen some REAL PICTURES. Can't see myself buying another GM product. So-it's Ford or Toyota.

 

The thing is that there has been an "adjustment" in the market. People buying 60K pickups with 10K off are now going to buy a lesser equipped model at 50K without any discounts.

 

Part of the reason why trucks where 54K was the make up that difference in profit that 10K in rebates was eating up. 
 

That is also part of the reason why Ford is pushing ordering your vehicle instead of off the lot-You buy what you want and they don't have to offer discounts on it either to move the product. 

Not saying its not 100% fool proof, but if other manufactures where smart and did this also, instead of chasing sales numbers over profit, they would be able to make $$$ too without discounts. 

[FordBuyer]

I guess my original point was that an F150 is somewhat affordable to many if you can really get by without having 4 doors, 12 inch touch screen, leather seats, panoramic sunroof, and so on. 

 

In my own life, all I wanted was a 1500 square foot house with two car garage + golf cart garage in Florida, but as usual let my wife talk me into 2100 square foot house minus golf cart garage. Compromise comes with the territory. With the Escape, all I wanted was a base SE Sport Hybrid, but LAP closed because of Covid, and only SE Sport Hybrid on lot that I ended up with had premium package. I could care less about panoramic sun roof and active leather seats. Cloth seats I like better. And I like the physicality of opening and closing the tailgate manually. Use your muscles or lose them.

 

Ford doesn't like customers like me. Lucky for Ford many want all the bells and whistles and will pay an extra $20,000+ for them. Now with the chip shortage probably lasting up to 2023, we may see a lot of tech features disappearing like wireless charging and so on.

 

[jpd80]

Looks to me like you guys are getting a taste of the pricing we’ve been getting in global markets.  Since Ford has been keeping inventory super tight, we just don’t see much in the way of discounts, only when a dealer is really stuck with older product that won’t budge

[CKNSLS]

30 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

I guess my original point was that an F150 is somewhat affordable to many if you can really get by without having 4 doors, 12 inch touch screen, leather seats, panoramic sunroof, and so on. 

 

In my own life, all I wanted was a 1500 square foot house with two car garage + golf cart garage in Florida, but as usual let my wife talk me into 2100 square foot house minus golf cart garage. Compromise comes with the territory. With the Escape, all I wanted was a base SE Sport Hybrid, but LAP closed because of Covid, and only SE Sport Hybrid on lot that I ended up with had premium package. I could care less about panoramic sun roof and active leather seats. Cloth seats I like better. And I like the physicality of opening and closing the tailgate manually. Use your muscles or lose them.

 

Ford doesn't like customers like me. Lucky for Ford many want all the bells and whistles and will pay an extra $20,000+ for them. Now with the chip shortage probably lasting up to 2023, we may see a lot of tech features disappearing like wireless charging and so on.

 

 

Wireless charging and having a USB port is redundant-this subject was discussed on a Silverado forum recently and how none of us would miss it..   If you have a family-you need a Crew Cab. It's a known fact that pickup trucks either haul air (remember wants vs. needs)-or do double duty hauling the family travel trailer occasionally and dropping the kids off at school.  Many want creature comforts in their vehicles since many keep them in excess of 10 years. What many DON'T LIKE (and even you mentioned it)is the silly way all manufacturers bundle option packages. For example LED  headlights lights are great for driving at night but I shouldn't have to buy a sunroof to get them.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehicles-on-road-12-years/#:~:text=UPDATE 6%2F21%2F21%3A,to research from IHS Markit.

Edited September 7, 2021 by CKNSLS

[FordBuyer]

10 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

 

Wireless charging and having a USB port is redundant-this subject was discussed on a Silverado forum recently and how none of us would miss it..   If you have a family-you need a Crew Cab. It's a known fact that pickup trucks either haul air (remember wants vs. needs)-or do double duty hauling the family travel trailer occasionally and dropping the kids off at school.  Many want creature comforts in their vehicles since many keep them in excess of 10 years. What many DON'T LIKE (and even you mentioned it)is the silly way all manufacturers bundle option packages. For example LED  headlights lights are great for driving at night but I shouldn't have to buy a sunroof to get them.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehicles-on-road-12-years/#:~:text=UPDATE 6%2F21%2F21%3A,to research from IHS Markit.

 

I hate that word bundle. I like a la carte much better. Back in the old days you could order a new vehicle just the way you wanted it without any bundle packages. They say it's for better assembly efficiency, but it's really about profit margin. 

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

For example LED  headlights lights are great for driving at night but I shouldn't have to buy a sunroof to get them.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehicles-on-road-12-years/#:~:text=UPDATE 6%2F21%2F21%3A,to research from IHS Markit.

 

IIHS has very appropriately shamed automakers into making decent headlamps along with technologies like automatic high beam standard on their cars and light trucks, and not force prospective customers to buy expensive option packages with unnecessary fluff in order to get them. IIHS award criteria push manufacturers to scrap inferior headlights

 

Note that while most of the good rated headlamps in IIHS evaluations are LED, that doesn't mean that all LED headlamps are good. For example, the LED headlamps on previous generation Ford F-150 (2018-2020) rated poor.

[rmc523]

9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

IIHS has very appropriately shamed automakers into making decent headlamps along with technologies like automatic high beam standard on their cars and light trucks, and not force prospective customers to buy expensive option packages with unnecessary fluff in order to get them. IIHS award criteria push manufacturers to scrap inferior headlights

 

Note that while most of the good rated headlamps in IIHS evaluations are LED, that doesn't mean that all LED headlamps are good. For example, the LED headlamps on previous generation Ford F-150 (2018-2020) rated poor.

 

They probably rated poor because of glare for others, not because of how they lit up the road.  That often seems to be a tipping point for them.

[CKNSLS]

9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

IIHS has very appropriately shamed automakers into making decent headlamps along with technologies like automatic high beam standard on their cars and light trucks, and not force prospective customers to buy expensive option packages with unnecessary fluff in order to get them. IIHS award criteria push manufacturers to scrap inferior headlights

 

Note that while most of the good rated headlamps in IIHS evaluations are LED, that doesn't mean that all LED headlamps are good. For example, the LED headlamps on previous generation Ford F-150 (2018-2020) rated poor.

The headlight example was an "off the cuff" one. But I'm sure even with the poor example you get my point.

[rperez817]

16 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

The headlight example was an "off the cuff" one. But I'm sure even with the poor example you get my point.

 

Yes sir CKNSLS, I get your point. Like you and FordBuyer, I don't like how automakers often force customers to order option packages with stuff they may not want in order to get features they do. In Ford's case, Jim Farley is pushing strategies that encourage retail customers to do retail sold orders for new vehicles rather than buy something in dealer stock. That may increase the number of standalone options on its vehicles.

 

In the headlight example, some new Ford models such as Bronco, Bronco Sport, and Maverick come standard with LED headlamps. The ones on Bronco Sport are rated good for all trim levels.

Edited September 7, 2021 by rperez817

[rperez817]

27 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

They probably rated poor because of glare for others, not because of how they lit up the road. 

 

Both actually. 2018-2020 F-150 LED headlamps produced way too much glare for other motorists, and also delivered poor performance lighting up the road for the driver. Specifically, they provided good visibility on the right side of the road on the straightaway, but only fair visibility on the driver's (left) side on the straightaway, and inadequate visibility on all 4 tests involving curved roads.

[rmc523]

30 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Both actually. 2018-2020 F-150 LED headlamps produced way too much glare for other motorists, and also delivered poor performance lighting up the road for the driver. Specifically, they provided good visibility on the right side of the road on the straightaway, but only fair visibility on the driver's (left) side on the straightaway, and inadequate visibility on all 4 tests involving curved roads.

I wish the NHTSA would wake up and start allowing things like the matrix headlights.

[rperez817]

15 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I wish the NHTSA would wake up and start allowing things like the matrix headlights.

 

For sure. It's sad that U.S. regulation FMVSS No. 108 is so far behind the times. NHTSA still hasn't made rulings permitting matrix and other adaptive headlamp technologies for U.S. market vehicles. NHTSA Still Hasn't Ruled on Adaptive Headlights (autoweek.com)

[FordBuyer]

16 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Both actually. 2018-2020 F-150 LED headlamps produced way too much glare for other motorists, and also delivered poor performance lighting up the road for the driver. Specifically, they provided good visibility on the right side of the road on the straightaway, but only fair visibility on the driver's (left) side on the straightaway, and inadequate visibility on all 4 tests involving curved roads.

 

A nice standard feature would be headlights that turn with steering wheel like luxury vehicles do. Even Subaru was offering it on the Crosstrek. When I last lived in MI, it was more rural area with lack of street lights. So when I turned at rural intersections no visibility un th il back to center. That is a safety feature to me. Same with fog lights, and turn signal lights in outside mirrors. Seeing and being seen is all about safety. 

 

[Chrisgb]

On 9/6/2021 at 8:18 AM, WillSD said:

F-Series expanded their full-size pickup leadership again in August:

 

August (Month):  Ford  57,321   Chevrolet  40,448   Ram  40,257   GMC  17,582    (General Motors  58,030)

 

August (YTD):  Ford 471,667   Ram  395,095   Chevrolet  377,596   GMC  178,055   (General Motors  555,651)

 

During the "Great Compression," 2008-2011, gm (no sic, they use lower case now) discontinued Pontiac, Saturn and Hummer, and should have also dropped Chevrolet-branded trucks and-body-on-frame SUVs, allowing all stores to carry the GMC brand; Chevrolet and Buick marketing all the unibody SUVs. Everyone in the world, except those working in the Renaissance Center knows that they are the same truck fundamentally, and I believe that few buyers would not have bought a GMC in the absence of a Silverado or Colorado. In rural markets, there are many Buick-GMC-Chervolet stores today, and I can't imagine any firm resistance to selling a Sierra to someone if there isn't a Silverado to their liking in stock. Many years in the last 44 gm's total full-size pickup sales were higher than F-Series, but because of their dual marketing, Ford is #1.