ncffs Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Built on the S650 platform, but more luxurious. Twin-turbo V6 engine, either 2.7 or 3.5 (preferably offer both). Even consider offering a 5.0 V8, but I think the twin-turbo 6 engines would be mandatory for this car. We're talking luxury here. Fully adaptive suspension, tuned for comfort but able to tighten up nicely in Sport mode. Entire car should be very comfortable normally, but very responsive in Sport, ala the Fusion Sport or MKZ, but on steroids. Active exhaust if you can make it sound decent (I realize that's difficult in a turbo six, but there are ways). Limited-slip differential. Try to integrate the dash display better, don't have it be a tablet-glued-to-the-dash kind of thing. Again, luxury. This car should be rear-drive or, even better, Intelligent All-Wheel Drive but rear-biased, not front-biased. Consider a hybrid version but if you do, it needs to be focused on performance, not just gas mileage. Don't cheap out and decontent things. Include the AC outlet, garage door opener, accent lighting, all that jazz. Put in a very serious audio system. This car should be a very comfortable, stylish, driver-focused coupe. But one that has a huge amount of power (north of 400 HP). Anything less than that won't be enough. Remember, this is probably the last chance for an ICE incarnation of this car. Finally, you could introduce a Lincoln LS version at the same time, and have Lincoln Approach Detection, etc. on that one, with the Lincoln badge, and charge $10k more or something like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 No longer any justification for the development cost of an all-new ICE based Thunderbird that would have limited sales. I wouldn't expect anything other than a BEV or Plug-In Hybrid chassis for future vehicles at this point. Existing ICE vehicles will continue to be available for years until they switch to new BEV platforms as supply and demand increases. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncffs Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 This is all so depressing. This next 10 years or so is going to be just awful for car lovers. You're probably right though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, ice-capades said: No longer any justification for the development cost of an all-new ICE based Thunderbird that would have limited sales. I wouldn't expect anything other than a BEV or Plug-In Hybrid chassis for future vehicles at this point. Existing ICE vehicles will continue to be available for years until they switch to new BEV platforms as supply and demand increases. I had wondered if the Thunderbird would return... as a new BEV. It could be a 4-door sporty crossover-ish vehicle with some retro styling cues that make it recognizable as a Thunderbird. Ford filed a trademark for it earlier this year. But it could be Ford holding on to it to prevent losing the name and logo. Recently, Ford of Europe Design Chief, Murat Gueler, told AutoCar his desire to bring back classic nameplates. He mentions emotion and many opportunities such as BEV tech. CEO Jim Farley is a car guy and I could see him be on board with this idea of bringing Thunderbird back on new BEV. They can even do a sub-branding with a family of Thunderbird with 2-door/2-seat convertible, 4-door/4-seat coupe-ish hatchback, 5-door large crossover, etc. https://fordauthority.com/2021/01/ford-thunderbird-trademark-filing-suggests-potential-revival/ https://www.motor1.com/news/534284/ford-revive-old-car-names/ Edited September 23, 2021 by pffan1990 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 hours ago, ncffs said: This is all so depressing. This next 10 years or so is going to be just awful for car lovers. You're probably right though. Why? Embrace the change and get ready to hot rod an electric....it can be done, just different tech is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncffs Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Why? It's completely impractical. I live in an apartment. I have absolutely no way to practically charge a BEV. Nor do I wish to spend a large amount of time waiting to charge. I'd much rather fill up and be on my way in minutes with a full tank. Not everyone has a personal situation where electric makes sense. Besides, I fully expect rolling blackouts everywhere (just like California) once enough people are forced onto electric. I can't do anything about that, but having a good ICE car is one thing I can do (assuming they're available still). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, ncffs said: Why? It's completely impractical. I live in an apartment. I have absolutely no way to practically charge a BEV. Nor do I wish to spend a large amount of time waiting to charge. I'd much rather fill up and be on my way in minutes with a full tank. Not everyone has a personal situation where electric makes sense. Besides, I fully expect rolling blackouts everywhere (just like California) once enough people are forced onto electric. I can't do anything about that, but having a good ICE car is one thing I can do (assuming they're available still). You presume that the grid is static and will never be updated to reflect the changing usage by motorists. As more level 3 chargers become available and battery tech improves, your "fill up" will likely also take minutes and you will be on your way. Internal combustion is going to be good for another 20-30 years and slowly go away as electrics get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, twintornados said: Internal combustion is going to be good for another 20-30 years and slowly go away as electrics get better. Given the politics of the situation, I think we have more like 15-20 years 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 9 hours ago, pffan1990 said: I had wondered if the Thunderbird would return... as a new BEV. It could be a 4-door sporty crossover-ish vehicle with some retro styling cues that make it recognizable as a Thunderbird. Ford filed a trademark for it earlier this year. But it could be Ford holding on to it to prevent losing the name and logo. Recently, Ford of Europe Design Chief, Murat Gueler, told AutoCar his desire to bring back classic nameplates. He mentions emotion and many opportunities such as BEV tech. CEO Jim Farley is a car guy and I could see him be on board with this idea of bringing Thunderbird back on new BEV. They can even do a sub-branding with a family of Thunderbird with 2-door/2-seat convertible, 4-door/4-seat coupe-ish hatchback, 5-door large crossover, etc. https://fordauthority.com/2021/01/ford-thunderbird-trademark-filing-suggests-potential-revival/ https://www.motor1.com/news/534284/ford-revive-old-car-names/ The last generation Thunderbird was to be a 4-year run with production limited to 25,000 vehicles per year. The hit the sales target the first year and then dropped for the remaining years. The nameplate hasn't sold in volume since the late '80's and then dropped continually until Ford dropped the Thunderbird after the 1997 Model Year. While the nameplate has history, it would take a tremendous investment to reintroduce it and I just don't see the sales potential. I have some experience as my dealership was one of the Top 10 Thunderbird Dealers in the country. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 13 hours ago, ice-capades said: The last generation Thunderbird was to be a 4-year run with production limited to 25,000 vehicles per year. The hit the sales target the first year and then dropped for the remaining years. The nameplate hasn't sold in volume since the late '80's and then dropped continually until Ford dropped the Thunderbird after the 1997 Model Year. While the nameplate has history, it would take a tremendous investment to reintroduce it and I just don't see the sales potential. I have some experience as my dealership was one of the Top 10 Thunderbird Dealers in the country. Point taken. I wasn't aware that sales had been slipping since late 80s into final model year 1997. I do wonder why the Thunderbird sales faded away each year after the 2002 re-introduction when it should have maxed out at 25,000 each of four years. That was during the retro craze with VW New Beetle, Chrysler PT Cruiser and Prowler (formerly Plymouth), etc. so seems like people would have clamored for the Bird. Perhaps it was the wrong car at the wrong time? However, Ford already has the Mustang and Bronco families now as well as the F-150 and even Raptor families to meet demand of. So Ford has something to keep them busy and profitable during the ICE-to-BEV transition for at least the next 10 years. But it seemed to me at first that the Thunderbird family of vehicles would help but I stand corrected after reading your points. Wasn't aware the 2002-2006 didn't reach the sales expectation Ford had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 9 hours ago, pffan1990 said: Point taken. I wasn't aware that sales had been slipping since late 80s into final model year 1997. I do wonder why the Thunderbird sales faded away each year after the 2002 re-introduction when it should have maxed out at 25,000 each of four years. That was during the retro craze with VW New Beetle, Chrysler PT Cruiser and Prowler (formerly Plymouth), etc. so seems like people would have clamored for the Bird. Perhaps it was the wrong car at the wrong time? However, Ford already has the Mustang and Bronco families now as well as the F-150 and even Raptor families to meet demand of. So Ford has something to keep them busy and profitable during the ICE-to-BEV transition for at least the next 10 years. But it seemed to me at first that the Thunderbird family of vehicles would help but I stand corrected after reading your points. Wasn't aware the 2002-2006 didn't reach the sales expectation Ford had. Thanks for the feedback! Ford started adding more standard equipment with the 1987-1988 series and then really started to load up the Thunderbird's standard equipment list with the then all-new 1989 Thunderbird which drove prices substantially higher. Those actions made it more difficult to market the car at competitive and/or attractive price points and as a result the sales volume dropped continuously. The retro 2002 Thunderbird with the limited production attracted strong interest the first Model Year along with strong ADM's that many or most Dealers charged. Ford tried to maintain the interest by introducing new colors and decor options the remaining years but the novelty wore off along with the demand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Ford Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 7:40 AM, silvrsvt said: Given the politics of the situation, I think we have more like 15-20 years Ugh...I sure hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, ice-capades said: Ford started adding more standard equipment with the 1987-1988 series and then really started to load up the Thunderbird's standard equipment list with the then all-new 1989 Thunderbird which drove prices substantially higher. Those actions made it more difficult to market the car at competitive and/or attractive price points and as a result the sales volume dropped continuously. I remember Ford top executives chastising the managers of the 1989 Thunderbird program over costs. Edited September 24, 2021 by ehaase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, ehaase said: I remember Ford top executives chastising the managers of the 1989 Thunderbird program over costs. In 1985 and 1986, we were advertising new Thunderbirds at $8,888 and Don Imus was doing our spots live, Monday through Friday, 40+ weeks per year in addition to our exclusive "live read" contracts with the major morning shows on CT radio stations. Our contracts specified that our spots ran only between 7:00am - 9:00am and were the exclusive "live read" automotive spots. In addition, the on-air personalities received no additional premiums. The radio personalities were given creative liberties within legal compliance regarding sales practices, etc. When the all-new 1989 Thunderbird was introduced, the vehicle pricing went up thousands of dollars over the previous model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, ehaase said: I remember Ford top executives chastising the managers of the 1989 Thunderbird program over costs. Supposedly MN12 came in both over-budget and overweight. I think Car & Driver had a writeup on how Ford management wasn't happy with the MN12 team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Supposedly MN12 came in both over-budget and overweight. I think Car & Driver had a writeup on how Ford management wasn't happy with the MN12 team. Remember when Ford was running Mustang chassis mules on a shortened MN12 chassis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffington33 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 would be nice to see a anniversary addition released to keep the name arround, i do not think they sold to good when they came back out in the 2000's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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