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Do you see an EV Super Duty in our future?


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2 hours ago, Huzzar said:

Has anyone figured out what to do with all the spent batteries once they're past their useful life? Aren't they full of toxins?

 

 

Battery recycling will become increasingly important as old EVs are scrapped.

 

There are lots of good articles on this subject. Here is an example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56574779

 

Sounds like the EV industry does NOT have adequate recycling capability yet.

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31 minutes ago, Mercruiser said:

 

You are only partially correct. Yes, the 50A has two separate 120V legs. But, here is the important part. The two 120V legs are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, which means the voltage between them is 240V. Have a look at the 50A RV outlet on the left side of the diagram. The voltage measured between the red & black wires is 240V. The voltage between the red wire to white wire (neutral) is 120V. Similarly, the black to white wire voltage is also 120V.  

 

Most coaches and trailers with 50A power only use 120V loads (connected red-white or black-white). But a coach builder certainly could put a 240V load in an RV by connecting the load between the red and black wires.

 

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The fact that you can get 240V from an RV outlet is important here, because EVs require 240V for Level 2 charging. The Tesla I saw in Oregon was using the 50A RV outlet to power a portable AC Level Two charger. Notice the plug on this Portable EV Charger from Amazon. It fits right in the RV 50A outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FNZBR5W/

 

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ABB just announced a new charger that promises to charge any vehicle within 15 minutes to 100%.  It will roll out in Europe first followed by the US and Latin America.

 

I'm not certain how they can promise 15 minutes charge time.  I thought charge times were regulated by the software and hardware of the vehicle, not the charging station.

https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/abb-launches-worlds-fastest-ev-charger?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210930&utm_content=article4-headline

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3 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

One idea is that those RV campgrounds would coordinate with their local power utilities and provide parking slots where you would bring your RV in, park it, disconnect your EV F-Super Duty (or competing brand) and park that in a dedicated parking slot with an EV kiosk so you could charge up your EV rig while you camp and enjoy.

 

When we travel, we must carry a 50/30 amp adapter, as many campgrounds don't even have 50 amp service for the RV's, never mind having 50 amp charging stations for EV's. The other issue is space. Not many campgrounds have unused space to create sufficient charging stations to handle SD CCLB, some being DRW. Before campgrounds invest in EV charging stations, the RV'ing community would prefer they upgrade the 15/20/30 amp sites to 50 amps.

 

Before I would consider an EV for RV'ing, they will require the equivalent of gas stations, where I can drive up and recharge in about the same time it takes to fill the diesel tank. Since I can't fit in most gas station forecourts, unless I am unhitched, they also need to supply charging stations in the truck lanes.

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36 minutes ago, Mercruiser said:

 

You are only partially correct. Yes, the 50A has two separate 120V legs. But, here is the important part. The two 120V legs are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, which means the voltage between them is 240V. Have a look at the 50A RV outlet on the left side of the diagram. The voltage measured between the red & black wires is 240V. The voltage between the red wire to white wire (neutral) is 120V. Similarly, the black to white wire voltage is also 120V.  

 

Most coaches and trailers with 50A power only use 120V loads (connected red-white or black-white). But a coach builder certainly could put a 240V load in an RV by connecting the load between the red and black wires.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=170978&d=150

 

The fact that you can get 240V from an RV outlet is important here, because EVs require 240V for Level 2 charging. The Tesla I saw in Oregon was using the 50A RV outlet to power a portable AC Level Two charger. Notice the plug on this Portable EV Charger from Amazon. It fits right in the RV 50A outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FNZBR5W/

 

d6e6f98f-ba00-63d7-0ae3-5db96084a77b?t=1

 

 

 

Interesting, I thought the RV 50A was wired with both legs coming off the same source leg, meaning they're in phase, and therefore 0V between the two instead of 240V.  Guess I'll have to take my tester out to my connection in the shed.  :) 

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37 minutes ago, Mercruiser said:

The fact that you can get 240V from an RV outlet is important here, because EVs require 240V for Level 2 charging. The Tesla I saw in Oregon was using the 50A RV outlet to power a portable AC Level Two charger. Notice the plug on this Portable EV Charger from Amazon. It fits right in the RV 50A outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FNZBR5W/

Many RV parks have insufficient electrical capacity to support a full campground.  A few plugged in BEVs could quite quickly overload the circuits.

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10 minutes ago, RedHoncho01 said:

ABB just announced a new charger that promises to charge any vehicle within 15 minutes to 100%.  It will roll out in Europe first followed by the US and Latin America.

 

I'm not certain how they can promise 15 minutes charge time.  I thought charge times were regulated by the software and hardware of the vehicle, not the charging station.

https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/abb-launches-worlds-fastest-ev-charger?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210930&utm_content=article4-headline

 

There is a nuance here. The original ABB press release says, "The new charger has a maximum output of 360 kW and is capable of fully charging any electric car in 15 minutes or less". It does NOT say that ANY car is capable of accepting a 360 kW charge rate. The ABB press release is a bit misleading IMHO.

 

None the less, a Super Duty size EV would really benefit from a high output charger like this.

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10 minutes ago, Mercruiser said:

 

There is a nuance here. The original ABB press release says, "The new charger has a maximum output of 360 kW and is capable of fully charging any electric car in 15 minutes or less". It does NOT say that ANY car is capable of accepting a 360 kW charge rate. The ABB press release is a bit misleading IMHO.

 

None the less, a Super Duty size EV would really benefit from a high output charger like this.

Output 360 kw?  What is the input, and where will someone find that many amps?

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17 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Interesting, I thought the RV 50A was wired with both legs coming off the same source leg, meaning they're in phase, and therefore 0V between the two instead of 240V.  Guess I'll have to take my tester out to my connection in the shed.  :) 

That depends on how your shed RV outlet is wired. If a licensed electrician installed it according to National Electric Code, it will be wired as shown in the diagram, with 240V between the red and black wires.

 

If the homeowner installed it, they may have just connected each hot wire to random separate 120V circuits. In that case, it might be 240V or it might be 0V. Wiring according to NEC has safety and efficiency advantages.

Edited by Mercruiser
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21 minutes ago, road turtle said:

Output 360 kw?  What is the input, and where will someone find that many amps?

If you find a Tesla Supercharger location, you will see a large pad-mount transformer nearby that supplies the energy to the Supercharger as 480V three-phase. That transformer will be powered by the local electric company, typically on a 30 kV distribution circuit. The transformer will have an "MVA" rating stenciled on the side. The MVA rating is the highest possible megawatts that the transformer can continuously provide without overheating.

 

The Supercharger (or the future ABB charger) has all the electronics to convert the AC to DC at the proper levels.

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1 hour ago, road turtle said:

Many RV parks have insufficient electrical capacity to support a full campground.  A few plugged in BEVs could quite quickly overload the circuits.

I agree. The typical load in an RV park is two roof ACs each drawing about 13-15 A at 120V. The AC compressors will cycle on/off if it's not too hot out.

 

The Level 2 chargers are going to draw power continuously until the vehicle is fully charged. That Amazon charger will draw 32 Amps at 240V. That's more than double the load of two roof AC units. I can see why RV park owners are going to get concerned when EVs show up.

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On 9/28/2021 at 6:01 AM, bshort said:

Was getting 8.5 mpg towing up to the mountains.  EV version would have me charging every 100 miles.  Pass.  

You will generating power when going down the mountain that can recharge the batteries. This is the real benefit of EVs. None of the braking energy is wasted. It goes back into the battery.

 

I still agree that a Super Duty EV will have way lower range than a tank of gas/diesel. But its not because of mountains. Its because the energy density of a battery is way lower than hydrocarbon fuel.

 

(Edit: I overstated that "none" of the energy is wasted. The recharge cycle is not 100% efficient. Some energy is wasted as heat.)

 

This is also why electric trains are used extensively in Europe and Asia. All of the braking energy goes back into the overhead wire. A train that is braking provides power to another train that is accelerating.

 

With diesel trains, all of the braking energy is wasted as heat. Ditto for diesel trucks.

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On 9/30/2021 at 8:07 AM, Rangers09 said:

 

When we travel, we must carry a 50/30 amp adapter, as many campgrounds don't even have 50 amp service for the RV's, never mind having 50 amp charging stations for EV's. The other issue is space. Not many campgrounds have unused space to create sufficient charging stations to handle SD CCLB, some being DRW. Before campgrounds invest in EV charging stations, the RV'ing community would prefer they upgrade the 15/20/30 amp sites to 50 amps.

 

Before I would consider an EV for RV'ing, they will require the equivalent of gas stations, where I can drive up and recharge in about the same time it takes to fill the diesel tank. Since I can't fit in most gas station forecourts, unless I am unhitched, they also need to supply charging stations in the truck lanes.

 

This point right here is why I opted to order an F-350 to pull our travel trailer.  I'm like #3000 (out of a supposed 1m+ reservations) for the Tesla Cybertruck.  I have no doubt it will be awesome and do everything they tout and more.... however there are no pull through superchargers to accommodate towing (yet).  It would require unhitching, parking the truck to charge, then when complete hooking back up and being on your way.  

 

To the second point, with 360Kw charging, charge times will be fast.  Even 150 is pretty freakin' quick.  If you haven't road tripped an EV you don't do it like a gas vehicle.  You take enough charge to get to the next stop, you don't fill all the way up (the last 10% takes the longest).  Fastest charge times are when the battery is the lowest.  10-15 minutes and you're on your way again to the next stop which is perfect because it's 2-3 hour legs and I'm ready to stand and walk around for a few minutes anyway.  With autopilot on, it's freaking awesome.  

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