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Latest hold up?


Rcpd34

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1 hour ago, ferdbird said:

Thank you for your kind comment. 
 

I have been second priority since week four. Four trucks have been delivered since August 17th. Out of the 12 they have on order I am the oldest order. Now I just hope for a valentines truck. 
 

I have never used the word conspiracy at all. Everything is true I guess. My issue is communication. For could at least send out some production numbers to us. Expectations for future builds and such. Even a monthly letter saying “We value you. Sorry for the wait. Please hang in there”. At least then I would not fell forgotten. 

 

I purchased the truck from our local dealer, so I am their customer. The dealer keeps me informed of the status and any progress. My truck is still in "Unscheduled Clean" status. Until mid-November they advised previously ordered trucks were ahead of mine in the dealer priority and since then, scheduling has been delayed by commodity shortages, which is confirmed by Ice-Capades weekly.

 

Dealers are more than capable of performing customer service, so rather than complaining about Ford, may I suggest getting your dealer to do their job and provide you the customer serivce you require.

 

BTW - my Sales Manager asked me how often I would like updates, which he then assigned to one of his salesmen.

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People ordering from Ford should know one thing: Information from the Vehicle Visibility Report (VVR) is Ford Confidential. I know this because I’ve seen the disclaimer at the bottom of the VVR screen. If a dealer feels comfortable to share information with you, then they may make the choice to do so. Otherwise, all customers that place an order are as important as the dealer wants to make them. There is a lot of information about hold ups on here, but even the moderators have to tote the line from a liability standpoint. Think about it, why would your dealer or Ford want to make promises they could not guarantee to keep? They’d face hundreds, if not thousands, of small claim lawsuits or even a class action one. 
 

Best advice I can give you for the retail order buying experience: expect 30+ weeks of lead time and find yourself a genuine dealer or sales consultant/representative who will take care of you. Otherwise, you could be unimportant to the dealer you work with and the order could get sold from under you just like that. And remember, Ford does not have the resources to ensure every dealer is 100% compliant with representing them - which the moderators on here should understand when telling forum users how their dealer needs to be doing a better job.

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1 hour ago, nswan said:

People ordering from Ford should know one thing: Information from the Vehicle Visibility Report (VVR) is Ford Confidential. I know this because I’ve seen the disclaimer at the bottom of the VVR screen. If a dealer feels comfortable to share information with you, then they may make the choice to do so. Otherwise, all customers that place an order are as important as the dealer wants to make them. There is a lot of information about hold ups on here, but even the moderators have to tote the line from a liability standpoint. Think about it, why would your dealer or Ford want to make promises they could not guarantee to keep? They’d face hundreds, if not thousands, of small claim lawsuits or even a class action one. 
 

Best advice I can give you for the retail order buying experience: expect 30+ weeks of lead time and find yourself a genuine dealer or sales consultant/representative who will take care of you. Otherwise, you could be unimportant to the dealer you work with and the order could get sold from under you just like that. And remember, Ford does not have the resources to ensure every dealer is 100% compliant with representing them - which the moderators on here should understand when telling forum users how their dealer needs to be doing a better job.


It’s marked confidential so that the information can’t be given to competitors,  Ford does not care if details on a vehicle are shared with the buyer.  Ford themselves give out most of the information.

 

Cyberdman is the only moderator that works for Ford.  I don’t understand the last comment - what does dealer compliance have to do with dealerships providing good customer service to their paying customers?

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56 minutes ago, akirby said:


It’s marked confidential so that the information can’t be given to competitors,  Ford does not care if details on a vehicle are shared with the buyer.  Ford themselves give out most of the information.

 

Cyberdman is the only moderator that works for Ford.  I don’t understand the last comment - what does dealer compliance have to do with dealerships providing good customer service to their paying customers?

Why would VVR information be solely confidential from competitors? Plus, how would a dealer know that who they are selling to isn’t a competitor or isn’t going to share confidential information? I.e., on forums where competitors likely hang out. The disclaimer doesn’t say anything specifically about that, it just says it is Ford Confidential. Not every dealer is intelligent enough or trained to know what the terms of a confidentiality statement are. Some dealers may use that to their advantage, some may not, and others simply have no clue and don’t share information because they truly think it’s confidential.

 

For retail orders, Ford themselves only gives out information on the Primary Status to customers. Speaking from experience, I’ve tried asking for more information several different ways, and Ford has always told me to go to my dealer for more information other than Primary Status.

 

I’m assuming each Ford dealership has to comply with the Terms and Conditions of their agreement with Ford in order to sell products and operate. If a dealer misrepresents Ford, or does not adhere to the Terms and Conditions of their agreement, there could be legal ramifications pursuant anti-defamation laws or breach of contract. It would not surprise me if the Terms and Conditions have some type of indemnification clause that protects Ford from dealers who “do not do their jobs”, because if there wasn’t such clause then it would make Ford look bad and lose business. That’s why Ford allows franchise-type dealerships and does not sell vehicles directly to customers; keeps their hands clean. If it is truly the dealer’s job to share VVR information to Ford customers, don’t you think Ford would have the resources to enforce that expectation?

 

I see a lot of customer complaints on here. It’s aggravating to me, not only to see so many complaints, but to see moderators and those who represent Ford pass much of the responsibility off to dealers and say things like their dealer should be doing a better job at providing customers with more information about their retail order. People come on here not to get the run around, and I don’t expect the information to be 1010% accurate, but it’s clear that there is some protection for Ford on this site (which I completely understand). So, Dealer is protected, Ford is protected, but customers can’t necessarily have their order protected or have guaranteed transparency that should be provided when purchasing  a vehicle that costs upwards of $90,000. 

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, akirby said:

Cyberdman is the only moderator that works for Ford. 

 

Thank you for posting this.  I've seen postings by relatively new members, that think BOF is a Ford-directed forum, and a pipeline to the Company.  While there are other members who work for Ford, mostly in the plants (from what I can tell), the Ownership of BOF and most of the Mods are not FoMoCo employees.  No doubt, the Mod(s) and other members who are dealership employee's bring a different viewpoint to the forum, and help us civilians understand the retail-side of the business.

 

Clarity like this helps members understand that many of the responses are really just an individuals' opinion.

 

HRG

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58 minutes ago, nswan said:

Why would VVR information be solely confidential from competitors? Plus, how would a dealer know that who they are selling to isn’t a competitor or isn’t going to share confidential information? I.e., on forums where competitors likely hang out. The disclaimer doesn’t say anything specifically about that, it just says it is Ford Confidential. Not every dealer is intelligent enough or trained to know what the terms of a confidentiality statement are. Some dealers may use that to their advantage, some may not, and others simply have no clue and don’t share information because they truly think it’s confidential.

 

For retail orders, Ford themselves only gives out information on the Primary Status to customers. Speaking from experience, I’ve tried asking for more information several different ways, and Ford has always told me to go to my dealer for more information other than Primary Status.

 

I’m assuming each Ford dealership has to comply with the Terms and Conditions of their agreement with Ford in order to sell products and operate. If a dealer misrepresents Ford, or does not adhere to the Terms and Conditions of their agreement, there could be legal ramifications pursuant anti-defamation laws or breach of contract. It would not surprise me if the Terms and Conditions have some type of indemnification clause that protects Ford from dealers who “do not do their jobs”, because if there wasn’t such clause then it would make Ford look bad and lose business. That’s why Ford allows franchise-type dealerships and does not sell vehicles directly to customers; keeps their hands clean. If it is truly the dealer’s job to share VVR information to Ford customers, don’t you think Ford would have the resources to enforce that expectation?

 

I see a lot of customer complaints on here. It’s aggravating to me, not only to see so many complaints, but to see moderators and those who represent Ford pass much of the responsibility off to dealers and say things like their dealer should be doing a better job at providing customers with more information about their retail order. People come on here not to get the run around, and I don’t expect the information to be 1010% accurate, but it’s clear that there is some protection for Ford on this site (which I completely understand). So, Dealer is protected, Ford is protected, but customers can’t necessarily have their order protected or have guaranteed transparency that should be provided when purchasing  a vehicle that costs upwards of $90,000. 

 

 

 

 


That disclaimer is to prevent some rogue dealership employee from giving or selling information to the media or to competitors,  every corporation does that. I deal with it on a daily basis in my work.  It is not intended to prevent dealership employees from sharing I formation on their order,  cyberdman has been sharing those exact details publicly for many years,  if Ford thought that was improper he would have been shut down.

 

Ford provides detailed order status so dealers know when to expect delivery and there is absolutely no reason the dealer can’t share that with the buyer.  Zero.  Most dealers are just lazy or incompetent when it comes to sharing vehicle status with many claiming the info isn’t available which is a complete lie (or incompetence) as has been pointed out over and over.  Most just don’t want to be bothered to go look it up.  Great dealers do this on their own.  Ice-cap adds did this at his dealership for many years.  So telling dealers to do their jobs and provide customers with up to date status using the tools provided by Ford is simply asking the dealer to do their job.

 

And if you think Ford has any control over that you don’t understand state franchise laws.  Ford has no control over how the dealer interacts with the customer short of doing something illegal or explicitly forbidden.  It sucks because they can’t force crappy dealers to do better - all they can do is take away some allocation but even that is limited.  Ford would love to have more control over dealers but it’s actually illegal.  Providing online order status is one way Ford is trying to get around bad dealers.  
 

And there is NO “protection” for Ford here.  Other than cyberdman who is an acknowledged Ford employee, no other moderators or admins or the site owner is affiliated with Ford at all.  We’re all just enthusiasts like everyone else.  The reason we keep telling people to go to their dealer is because Ford gives the dealer this information that’s available 24/7 so they can keep themselves and the customer updated.  That’s how the system is supposed to work.  Dealers who don’t give this info aren’t doing their job.  Period.

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2 hours ago, nswan said:

Not every dealer is intelligent enough or trained to know what the terms of a confidentiality statement are. Some dealers may use that to their advantage, some may not, and others simply have no clue and don’t share information because they truly think it’s confidential.

Ford defines confidential and provides that to dealers. 

 

Short story, that specific customer, dealership, and Ford are all within the bounds of confidential documents.  Dealers are permitted to share the docs with that customer.

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52 minutes ago, akirby said:


That disclaimer is to prevent some rogue dealership employee from giving or selling information to the media or to competitors,  every corporation does that. I deal with it on a daily basis in my work.  It is not intended to prevent dealership employees from sharing I formation on their order,  cyberdman has been sharing those exact details publicly for many years,  if Ford thought that was improper he would have been shut down.

 

Ford provides detailed order status so dealers know when to expect delivery and there is absolutely no reason the dealer can’t share that with the buyer.  Zero.  Most dealers are just lazy or incompetent when it comes to sharing vehicle status with many claiming the info isn’t available which is a complete lie (or incompetence) as has been pointed out over and over.  Most just don’t want to be bothered to go look it up.  Great dealers do this on their own.  Ice-cap adds did this at his dealership for many years.  So telling dealers to do their jobs and provide customers with up to date status using the tools provided by Ford is simply asking the dealer to do their job.

 

And if you think Ford has any control over that you don’t understand state franchise laws.  Ford has no control over how the dealer interacts with the customer short of doing something illegal or explicitly forbidden.  It sucks because they can’t force crappy dealers to do better - all they can do is take away some allocation but even that is limited.  Ford would love to have more control over dealers but it’s actually illegal.  Providing online order status is one way Ford is trying to get around bad dealers.  
 

And there is NO “protection” for Ford here.  Other than cyberdman who is an acknowledged Ford employee, no other moderators or admins or the site owner is affiliated with Ford at all.  We’re all just enthusiasts like everyone else.  The reason we keep telling people to go to their dealer is because Ford gives the dealer this information that’s available 24/7 so they can keep themselves and the customer updated.  That’s how the system is supposed to work.  Dealers who don’t give this info aren’t doing their job.  Period.


Why are you arguing with me about this? I have to admit, you do seem to know a lot, and do a great job at describing how things are supposed to work from the perspective of a dealer and Ford, as well as assuming I don’t know what I’m talking about (which I don’t appreciate). Ford chooses to go through dealerships, like any other automaker in the industry. Ford has just as much ‘choice’ to lobby otherwise if they would truly love to have more control over dealerships and how things should work. There’s no excuse for existing bad policy on retail orders. Period.

 

And I’m not sure if you’re trying to enforce some community guidelines like Facebook, but you talk like there is something wrong with me and others sharing some real experience on how things aren’t working as they should. From a customer’a perspective who has waited 6 months and counting, I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to tell people that an average 30+ weeks is what they should expect for the entire process. After all, Ford tells us it can take a few days to get built and the average transit time is 12-28 days depending on a number of variables (obvious use of words to save face for when things don’t work out).


Thanks for your input though.

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23 minutes ago, nswan said:


Why are you arguing with me about this? I have to admit, you do seem to know a lot, and do a great job at describing how things are supposed to work from the perspective of a dealer and Ford, as well as assuming I don’t know what I’m talking about (which I don’t appreciate). Ford chooses to go through dealerships, like any other automaker in the industry. Ford has just as much ‘choice’ to lobby otherwise if they would truly love to have more control over dealerships and how things should work. There’s no excuse for existing bad policy on retail orders. Period.

 

And I’m not sure if you’re trying to enforce some community guidelines like Facebook, but you talk like there is something wrong with me and others sharing some real experience on how things aren’t working as they should. From a customer’a perspective who has waited 6 months and counting, I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to tell people that an average 30+ weeks is what they should expect for the entire process. After all, Ford tells us it can take a few days to get built and the average transit time is 12-28 days depending on a number of variables (obvious use of words to save face for when things don’t work out).


Thanks for your input though.

nutshell...take what is relayed to you with a grain of salt...the information the dealer is provided comes directly from Ford and their reps....90% of the time they cannot give a definitive answer, and in all honesty, the Reps are bloody useless. I can state this based on several decades of tolerating sidestepping and excuses rather than being provided a firm answer. And Ive experienced first hand on several vehicles Ive ordered for myself...and I literally work at a Dealership and our "incompetence" is a direct reflection of the tools we are provided and/ or the information from Corporate ....very frustrating at times

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28 minutes ago, road turtle said:

Ford defines confidential and provides that to dealers. 

 

Short story, that specific customer, dealership, and Ford are all within the bounds of confidential documents.  Dealers are permitted to share the docs with that customer.

a lot to do with Privacy laws and subsequent liabilities...

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23 minutes ago, nswan said:


Why are you arguing with me about this? I have to admit, you do seem to know a lot, and do a great job at describing how things are supposed to work from the perspective of a dealer and Ford, as well as assuming I don’t know what I’m talking about (which I don’t appreciate). Ford chooses to go through dealerships, like any other automaker in the industry. Ford has just as much ‘choice’ to lobby otherwise if they would truly love to have more control over dealerships and how things should work. There’s no excuse for existing bad policy on retail orders. Period.

 

And I’m not sure if you’re trying to enforce some community guidelines like Facebook, but you talk like there is something wrong with me and others sharing some real experience on how things aren’t working as they should. From a customer’a perspective who has waited 6 months and counting, I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to tell people that an average 30+ weeks is what they should expect for the entire process. After all, Ford tells us it can take a few days to get built and the average transit time is 12-28 days depending on a number of variables (obvious use of words to save face for when things don’t work out).


Thanks for your input though.


I don’t recall objecting to any sharing of experiences or expectations on order times.   What we object to are dealers not providing order status to customers, new people who ask the same questions over and over without reading previous posts or using search and people who think there is some conspiracy in which trucks get built.

 

As for dealerships, Ford doesn’t want to do away with them but they would like more control over things like ADMs and poor customer service.  To be fair Ford can do a better job on warranty repair, vehicle launches and other things.

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21 minutes ago, akirby said:


I don’t recall objecting to any sharing of experiences or expectations on order times.   What we object to are dealers not providing order status to customers, new people who ask the same questions over and over without reading previous posts or using search and people who think there is some conspiracy in which trucks get built.

 

As for dealerships, Ford doesn’t want to do away with them but they would like more control over things like ADMs and poor customer service.  To be fair Ford can do a better job on warranty repair, vehicle launches and other things.

QUOTE "What we object to are dealers not providing order status to customers"....99% of the time we cant because the information we are / aren't provided..OR, what is provided is wholly inaccurate ( don't get me stated on Vin Visibility )...comes from Ford. I hesitate picking up phone now...because a majority are people wanting updates on their orders...and all I can provide...is what Ford tells me, only for it to be laughably inaccurate ( should I share my own Bronco Sport orders endeavors? )....so, should I share that information , only to look like an idiot a week later or not?... pi$$ed off customers don't surprise me in the slightest...

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

QUOTE "What we object to are dealers not providing order status to customers"....99% of the time we cant because the information we are / aren't provided..OR, what is provided is wholly inaccurate ( don't get me stated on Vin Visibility )...comes from Ford. I hesitate picking up phone now...because a majority are people wanting updates on their orders...and all I can provide...is what Ford tells me, only for it to be laughably inaccurate ( should I share my own Bronco Sport orders endeavors? )....so, should I share that information , only to look like an idiot a week later or not?... pi$$ed off customers don't surprise me in the slightest...


You obviously haven’t been following the superduty ordering topic.  Not a day goes by without someone complaining that their dealer won’t give them any information at all.  Tells them they don’t have a VIN or that there isn’t any rail car info or sometimes they just won’t call them back.  All things that ice-capades knows isn’t true because he provided that info on orders at his dealership for years.  When he says the dealer is lying or not doing their job I believe him.  We’re not talking about whether the info is accurate or not - we’re talking about dealers who don’t even bother to look.

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15 hours ago, Deanh said:

a lot to do with Privacy laws and subsequent liabilities...

Ford provides definitions for proprietary, confidential, and secret. 

 

They have marked the info on vis vin as confidential.  The crux of the definition, if you are a party to the information, and a customer is party, then the information can be shared amongst the party's. The reason it's confidential instead of proprietary, within the document are all the detail build codes.  A competitor might find that data useful.  This details runs on for hundreds of lines long

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On 12/27/2021 at 2:47 PM, akirby said:


That disclaimer is to prevent some rogue dealership employee from giving or selling information to the media or to competitors,  every corporation does that. I deal with it on a daily basis in my work.  It is not intended to prevent dealership employees from sharing I formation on their order,  cyberdman has been sharing those exact details publicly for many years,  if Ford thought that was improper he would have been shut down.

 

Ford provides detailed order status so dealers know when to expect delivery and there is absolutely no reason the dealer can’t share that with the buyer.  Zero.  Most dealers are just lazy or incompetent when it comes to sharing vehicle status with many claiming the info isn’t available which is a complete lie (or incompetence) as has been pointed out over and over.  Most just don’t want to be bothered to go look it up.  Great dealers do this on their own.  Ice-cap adds did this at his dealership for many years.  So telling dealers to do their jobs and provide customers with up to date status using the tools provided by Ford is simply asking the dealer to do their job.

 

And if you think Ford has any control over that you don’t understand state franchise laws.  Ford has no control over how the dealer interacts with the customer short of doing something illegal or explicitly forbidden.  It sucks because they can’t force crappy dealers to do better - all they can do is take away some allocation but even that is limited.  Ford would love to have more control over dealers but it’s actually illegal.  Providing online order status is one way Ford is trying to get around bad dealers.  
 

And there is NO “protection” for Ford here.  Other than cyberdman who is an acknowledged Ford employee, no other moderators or admins or the site owner is affiliated with Ford at all.  We’re all just enthusiasts like everyone else.  The reason we keep telling people to go to their dealer is because Ford gives the dealer this information that’s available 24/7 so they can keep themselves and the customer updated.  That’s how the system is supposed to work.  Dealers who don’t give this info aren’t doing their job.  Period.

 

I think some dealers are just scared about the "Ford Confidential" tag believing they might get in trouble from Ford corporate if they share that information with the customer. Mainly due to ignorance. Others use it as a control thing in that they are the dealers, and you are the lowly customer, and they will decide what and how much information to share. My thought is that the dealers should be as transparent as they possibly can with the customers, especially now when we are looking at months before they get their new truck. Make the purchasing process as painless as it possibly can be. But hey, I'm just a customer, so what do we know :)

Edited by AtlasBlue350
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  • 2 months later...
On 12/27/2021 at 10:35 AM, ferdbird said:

Thank you for your kind comment. 
 

I have been second priority since week four. Four trucks have been delivered since August 17th. Out of the 12 they have on order I am the oldest order. Now I just hope for a valentines truck. 
 

I have never used the word conspiracy at all. Everything is true I guess. My issue is communication. For could at least send out some production numbers to us. Expectations for future builds and such. Even a monthly letter saying “We value you. Sorry for the wait. Please hang in there”. At least then I would not fell forgotten. 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 12:20 PM, akirby said:


 

7F94CA3C-991B-4B5E-8CDA-ED77B9CACF85.jpeg

 

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I would like to add/agree that any negative experience people have is likely due to their dealers or rather their opinion of the dealer's delivery of service and not the fault of Ford factories. There is only so much they can do to get your order through, and likewise, there is only so much your dealer knows and can do. However, I've apologized several times for calling my dealer and asking questions but they always say, "You are paying us for a service. There is no need to apologize, this is our job." If you have a good dealer they will understand and be willing to help in any way that they can. I feel bad for those who have waited nearly a year for their truck, but there is no one person at fault here, and you can't be upset at your dealer for not giving you answers as they only know so much, but as long as they tell you what they can I would be satisfied. By now, most people should know that nobody has the answers they want and that all you can do is sit back and wait no matter how frustrating. I'm just grateful for the resources provided on this forum and can only hope to be scheduled soon as I am now the oldest order at my dealer, however, I also recognize that my truck has lots of added options and could lead to more simple builds squeezing past me due to the availability of parts. 

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