Next Fusion spied

[DeluxeStang]

13 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

Unfortunately there are still ZERO plans for another Ford branded sedan in North America but I have heard some serious consideration taking place about the Zephyr for Lincoln but it’s purely speculation. The business case for the Lincoln sedan was/is for it to be a BEV only like the Model 3 and not sure where that stands. Importing from China is most likely the only way they can justify it at 15,000-20,000 units a year. The product plans have been changing like the wind blows. I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many programs stopped, shelved, restarted and then stopped again before.

 

Priorities seem to be pouring resources into F-Series family, Bronco family, Explorer (upcoming family), Maverick (upcoming family), Mustang Mach-E, plus Expedition and to some degree Ranger because of its global importance.

So with all these product changes, is the s650 kinda getting pushed to the side? Just kinda feels like Ford has stopped caring about that product, or they aren't very proud of it, because they're so willing to promote other upcoming products that are a year or more out in some cases, but it's complete radio silence on the next gen mustang. Regarding sedans, that's unfortunate, but I understand. That being said, you would think the Zephyr, if it was anything like the mkz, shares a lot with the fusion. So it's an odd choice imo to go through all the effort to import the zephyr here, but leave the higher volume fusion model on the table, even if it has a lower profit margin than the Lincoln. Just seems like if they were going to bring one here, they should just bring both.

[Twin Turbo]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

So with all these product changes, is the s650 kinda getting pushed to the side? Just kinda feels like Ford has stopped caring about that product, or they aren't very proud of it, because they're so willing to promote other upcoming products that are a year or more out in some cases, but it's complete radio silence on the next gen mustang. Regarding sedans, that's unfortunate, but I understand. That being said, you would think the Zephyr, if it was anything like the mkz, shares a lot with the fusion. So it's an odd choice imo to go through all the effort to import the zephyr here, but leave the higher volume fusion model on the table, even if it has a lower profit margin than the Lincoln. Just seems like if they were going to bring one here, they should just bring both.

 

There's complete radio silence regarding S650. I can only assume Ford's NDAs are rock solid and people are not prepared to lose their jobs over leaking information. That's perfectly understandable, even if its frustrating as a Mustang fan, as I've never known it so difficult to find information on a forthcoming generation.

 

Really, all we have are a couple of job profiles on Linkedin detailing the S650 name and AutoForecastSolutions with their predicted start of production info......which first had S650 going into production in 2021! Now it's March 2023.

 

Clearly Covid has had a huge impact on the industry. But this can't be the only reason for S650 delays.

[AGR]

You're possibly not hearing anything about the 'S650' because of the rumored 4-door sedan version, something Ford wouldn't want to be leaked.

[jpd80]

Battery supply and Covid disruption, it’s easier to run long and do nothing until we get past all of this.

How ironic that as Ford launches a next Gen Mustang in 2023, Camaro staggers mortally wounded to its end..

[Twin Turbo]

Certainly Camaro's demise the same time as the next-gen Mustang launches hadn't passed my by!

 

That being said, the death of pony cars as we know them isn't something I'll celebrate, even if they're from GM or Dodge ?

[jpd80]

16 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

Certainly Camaro's demise the same time as the next-gen Mustang launches hadn't passed my by!

 

That being said, the death of pony cars as we know them isn't something I'll celebrate, even if they're from GM or Dodge ?

I’m not celebrating, just pointing out the different level of commitment at Ford vs GM management..

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by jpd80

[Twin Turbo]

Apologies, I didn't mean to infer you were celebrating........its just the whole situation saddens me. But you're definitely right about Ford v GM management. It may not be a big seller these days, but as icons go they don't get much bigger than Mustang

[jpd80]

All good TT, I didn’t take it that way, just clarifying my POV.

And if anyone has a right to be really disappointed, it’s Camaro fans because clearly, this product cycle has not worked for them.

Edited January 9, 2022 by jpd80

[jpd80]

Cars imported from China are a vexing issue, Lincoln could certainly do with a Zephyr in North America but will they and why is the US working with an already released in China Mondeo, it could be just research/benchmarking or maybe Farley is looking at add in product. Maybe he takes a different view to the all or nothing proposition under Hackett that was in fairness intrinsically linked to production and space for new utilities.

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

This transition is rough for legacy mfrs who have to anticipate not only market trends but also government regulations in multiple countries and technological advances.

 

Ford is also trying to take advantage of these vehicle sub brands (families) which is a brilliant move.  It’s already paying dividends with Bronco Sport.

 

I think Ford’s biggest weakness has been changing product plans so often.  In most cases the changes probably made sense at the time but it ends up delaying new products even longer and the longer you delay the more chance the market has changed.

 

Yeah, they do seem to change plans a lot.

 

16 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

Unfortunately there are still ZERO plans for another Ford branded sedan in North America but I have heard some serious consideration taking place about the Zephyr for Lincoln but it’s purely speculation. The business case for the Lincoln sedan was/is for it to be a BEV only like the Model 3 and not sure where that stands. Importing from China is most likely the only way they can justify it at 15,000-20,000 units a year. The product plans have been changing like the wind blows. I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many programs stopped, shelved, restarted and then stopped again before.

 

Priorities seem to be pouring resources into F-Series family, Bronco family, Explorer (upcoming family), Maverick (upcoming family), Mustang Mach-E, plus Expedition and to some degree Ranger because of its global importance.

 

I still think having one sedan product for each brand would be good.

[DeluxeStang]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:11 PM, AGR said:

You're possibly not hearing anything about the 'S650' because of the rumored 4-door sedan version, something Ford wouldn't want to be leaked.

I've thought of that, but as ExplorerDude said no new Ford sedans are planned for the U.S. market. If Ford was going to make a mustang sedan, I feel like they would offer it here.

Edited January 10, 2022 by DeluxeStang

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Battery supply and Covid disruption, it’s easier to run long and do nothing until we get past all of this.

How ironic that as Ford launches a next Gen Mustang in 2023, Camaro staggers mortally wounded to its end..

It really is a sad contrast between the two icons. While I'm obviously more of a mustang fan, I still wanted the Camaro to succeed. After all, competition breeds innovation, and excellence. The flaw with the current Camaro is it looks too similar to the previous gen. Hopefully Ford doesn't make the same mistake by making the s650 look too similar to the s550.

[ExplorerDude]

1 hour ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

There's complete radio silence regarding S650. I can only assume Ford's NDAs are rock solid and people are not prepared to lose their jobs over leaking information. That's perfectly understandable, even if its frustrating as a Mustang fan, as I've never known it so difficult to find information on a forthcoming generation.

 

Really, all we have are a couple of job profiles on Linkedin detailing the S650 name and AutoForecastSolutions with their predicted start of production info......which first had S650 going into production in 2021! Now it's March 2023.

 

Clearly Covid has had a huge impact on the industry. But this can't be the only reason for S650 delays.

Yes, S650 has gone completely silent and it bothers me as well. Originally before COVID it was due to start production in September 2022 as a MY2023.

 

Now I can’t really say what is happening with S650. It’s still important but unfortunately Ford’s favorites and flavors of the week change as the headlines do. 

Farley has been great for product and for letting teams do their best work. But he was also who made the decision to cut the Fusion. In fact, Hackett passed the decision along to Farley to make as Hackett was 50/50 on the Fusion staying. Farley made the final call at the time and said it was the hardest decision of his career. Farley couldn’t find a way to make it profitable as Hackett wanted and the goal was no more wasting resources on products that don’t make us profitable. Done deal.

[rmc523]

13 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

Yes, S650 has gone completely silent and it bothers me as well. Originally before COVID it was due to start production in September 2022 as a MY2023.

 

Now I can’t really say what is happening with S650. It’s still important but unfortunately Ford’s favorites and flavors of the week change as the headlines do. 

Farley has been great for product and for letting teams do their best work. But he was also who made the decision to cut the Fusion. In fact, Hackett passed the decision along to Farley to make as Hackett was 50/50 on the Fusion staying. Farley made the final call at the time and said it was the hardest decision of his career. Farley couldn’t find a way to make it profitable as Hackett wanted and the goal was no more wasting resources on products that don’t make us profitable. Done deal.

 

That tells me that it's not that Fusion couldn't be profitable, but just not meeting the arbitrary 10% number or whatever it was Hackett wanted.

 

I get the "other segments are more profitable" argument, but still.  Who knows, maybe longer term, higher profits from other products will let them reinvest in other profitable but "less" profitable products/segments.

[FordBuyer]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Cars imported from China are a vexing issue, Lincoln could certainly do with a Zephyr in North America but will they and why is the US working with an already released in China Mondeo, it could be just research/benchmarking or maybe Farley is looking at add in product. Maybe he takes a different view to the all or nothing proposition under Hackett that was in fairness intrinsically linked to production and space for new utilities.

 

Importing Ford vehicles from China certainly won't go over politically. 

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Importing Ford vehicles from China certainly won't go over politically. 

 

With the current administration, I honestly doubt many would notice.  I don't think many end customers noticed Envision came from China prior to Trump making it more of a deal.

 

From a business perspective, I understand it being more economically feasible to import vehicles xyz from China vs. producing them locally on what are now lower volume models. But I also advocate for local and/or non China production.....catch 22.

[ExplorerDude]

Test mules for S650 are already on the streets. I don’t know when production starts with all the COVID and chip issues but the planned MY hasn’t changed.

[Twin Turbo]

3 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

Test mules for S650 are already on the streets. I don’t know when production starts with all the COVID and chip issues but the planned MY hasn’t changed.

 

So, as far as you're aware it's still a '23MY? 

 

I've been lead to believe (but happy for someone that really knows the facts to contradict this!) that you cannot build a '22MY car in the '23 calendar year. So, if S650 really is a March 2023 start of production (that came from industry analysts Auto Forecast Solutions......so I'd like to think they have good info) then the current '22MY would have to stop production at the end of the 2022 calendar year. That would leave a 2 to 3 month gap before S650 production starts......and that seems unlikely, unless Ford want to stockpile chips for S650 production ramp-up.

 

As for the S650 mules on the streets, are you referring to the S550-bodied one that was spotted almost a year ago in Feb 2021? I'd certainly class that as a mule testing drivetrain components.........but I'm really wanting to see the full-blown S650 production intent prototypes, which would have much more camo.

 

As ever, your input is always very much appreciated.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Twin Turbo
Spelling!

[akirby]

A 3 month gap on something like Mustang is no big deal.  They just build a few extras in November and December.

[jpd80]

May have suited parts supply to delay a few months, less disruptive to run long on MY22?

[Alex D.]

https://fordauthority.com/2022/01/2023-ford-fusion-mondeo-sedan-caught-undisguised-in-michigan/

[Flying68]

Wonder why the prototypes have receiver hitches on them, especially sedans.  Is it to pull testing equipment or perhaps dead weight to create load and drag on the engine?

[rmc523]

With how Ford's plans seem to change daily, maybe they will bring it here.....today lol.

[Alex D.]

1 hour ago, Flying68 said:

Wonder why the prototypes have receiver hitches on them, especially sedans.  Is it to pull testing equipment or perhaps dead weight to create load and drag on the engine?

Maybe there will be a towing package? Haha. Was wondering the same.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Alex D.