Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related

[hand-filer]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

That was unexpected...

Now I'm really questioning whether Escape and Corsair will be MEB. Makes much more sense to build all 4 on GE2 at Oakville. 

 Agree.

 

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

That was unexpected...

 

Now I'm really questioning whether Escape and Corsair will be MEB. Makes much more sense to build all 4 on GE2 at Oakville. 

I had a hunch GE2 would go to Oakville but is Ford now going to  dump MEB or make Oakville a two platform deal?

 

If you don’t like a Ford plan, just wait for the next one in six months, LOL

Edited May 26, 2022 by jpd80

[GrussGott]

On 5/22/2022 at 12:13 AM, Footballfan said:

You have to remember that Ford is now a "woke" company and anything they do does not have to make sense.

Boy, if Ford is trying to be woke, 13 years is a pretty fecking long snooze button!

Edited May 26, 2022 by GrussGott

[Footballfan]

12 hours ago, AGR said:

 

Explorer and Aviator EVs to be built at Oakville: Ford Explorer Electric Production Slated For Oakville Assembly Plant (fordauthority.com)

Hell these vehicles went from being produced at Flat Rock to Ohio Assembly to Mexico to Oakville to Chicago.  I don't think anyone-including Ford management knows what is going on. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Hell these vehicles went from being produced at Flat Rock to Ohio Assembly to Mexico to Oakville to Chicago.  I don't think anyone-including Ford management knows what is going on. 

They were never meant to be built in Chicago 

[bzcat]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I had a hunch GE2 would go to Oakville but is Ford now going to  dump MEB or make Oakville a two platform deal?

 

If you don’t like a Ford plan, just wait for the next one in six months, LOL

 

Six months is enough time for Ford to change its plan twice!

 

Remember when Ford said it was leaving India but not really but totally?  

Edited May 26, 2022 by bzcat

[akirby]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

Six months is enough time for Ford to change its plan twice!

 

Remember when Ford said it was leaving India but not really but totally?  

I think that has been Ford’s major problem the last 20 years - changing plans too many times.    Even if most of the time there were good reasons.  Sometimes you just need to pick something and stay with it for awhile.

[Harley Lover]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I think that has been Ford’s major problem the last 20 years - changing plans too many times.    Even if most of the time there were good reasons.  Sometimes you just need to pick something and stay with it for awhile.

 

Not if the plan is bad; this story, if true, can be seen as another repudiation of a decision made by Hackett. He screwed the pooch on his decision regarding battery supply and now this - again, if true. Ford is still set to use MEB in Europe, but that always made more sense than in North America.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Not if the plan is bad; this story, if true, can be seen as another repudiation of a decision made by Hackett. He screwed the pooch on his decision regarding battery supply and now this - again, if true. Ford is still set to use MEB in Europe, but that always made more sense than in North America.

Well of course but in most cases it’s not worse or better it’s just different.  E.g. moving from cd3 to cd4 only to kill cd4 a few years later.  Finishing a good plan can be better than changing plans every few years trying to find the perfect plan.

[Oac98]

21 hours ago, AGR said:

 

Explorer and Aviator EVs to be built at Oakville: Ford Explorer Electric Production Slated For Oakville Assembly Plant (fordauthority.com)

We were told we were gonna get 5 EVs as you guys already know. So maybe that does mean 2 platforms and several different tophats. As someone who works at OAC I’m kind of pissed off that nothing has TRULY been confirmed yet for OAC from FOMOCO themselves. Contract was sept 2020 how come we haven’t heard the actual vehicles coming here only speculation! Ford has been playing musical chairs with this aviator and explorer EV which is supposed to be different from ICE versions. I know they plan ahead and know way more than we do but I’ve said it several times as have you guys that the plans keep changing! We don’t even actually know when the last edge rolls of the line and the retooling will begin. We’ve been down almost a month I say shut the fucker down and start the retooling already!!

[jpd80]

50 minutes ago, akirby said:

Well of course but in most cases it’s not worse or better it’s just different.  E.g. moving from cd3 to cd4 only to kill cd4 a few years later.  Finishing a good plan can be better than changing plans every few years trying to find the perfect plan.

Ford’s constantly changing plans over the past five years shows that it’s reactive, not proactive to change, the reason for that was because Ford took up to seven years to go from researching to delivery, meaning most of its plans were bound to be off course.

Thinking things through,

Clearly, Hackett signed  up to MEB because Ford either couldn’t make the figures work with its own GE platform or it saw an easier path for putting Ford top hats onto an already developed electric motor battery drive chassis. Signing up to MEB in 2018 for delivery in Europe in 2023 bay be a sound plan but the delay for Oakville from 2025, it looks like Ford is repeating the same mistakes of the past with slow delivery……..is this really a sound plan for vehicles considered marginally profitable to be built anywhere else but Mexico?

 

The whole thing, MEB built in Canada sounds like a job done moment in 2018 that has been a constant behind the scenes “how do we make this work”. GE2 Explorer/Aviator now to be built in Canada makes more sense but does that prompt a switch for MEB to Mexico, dare they do that after promising for years to build in Canada or does Ford again switch plans and do something else like bzcat suggests and use GE/GE2 for compact vehicles?

We’re all waiting for the next advice from Ford, I’m sure they will have to confirm something in the next year as time is moving on…

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford’s constantly changing plans over the past five years shows that it’s reactive, not proactive to change, the reason for that was because Ford took up to seven years to go from researching to delivery, meaning most of its plans were bound to be off course.

Thinking things through,

Clearly, Hackett signed  up to MEB because Ford either couldn’t make the figures work with its own GE platform or it saw an easier path for putting Ford top hats onto an already developed electric motor battery drive chassis. Signing up to MEB in 2018 for delivery in Europe in 2023 bay be a sound plan but the delay for Oakville from 2025, it looks like Ford is repeating the same mistakes of the past with slow delivery……..is this really a sound plan for vehicles considered marginally profitable to be built anywhere else but Mexico?

 

The whole thing, MEB built in Canada sounds like a job done moment in 2018 that has been a constant behind the scenes “how do we make this work”. GE2 Explorer/Aviator now to be built in Canada makes more sense but does that prompt a switch for MEB to Mexico, dare they do that after promising for years to build in Canada or does Ford again switch plans and do something else like bzcat suggests and use GE/GE2 for compact vehicles?

We’re all waiting for the next advice from Ford, I’m sure they will have to confirm something in the next year as time is moving on…

I won’t be one but surprised when they make changes to this plan again. Announce the project in 2020 and then little information after. There are surveyors working in OAC right now so somethings happening but minimal info.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Oacjay98

[DeluxeStang]

12 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Hell these vehicles went from being produced at Flat Rock to Ohio Assembly to Mexico to Oakville to Chicago.  I don't think anyone-including Ford management knows what is going on. 

Yeah, ford is a great brand, but their plans seem to change more often than the relationship status of your typical social media influencer. 

[92merc]

By the same token, if Ford is changing plans frequently, they are being fluid and responsive changing to the new situations.  Supply availability changed, Ford moves a vehicle to new plant.  Once planned platform doesn't have the advantages predicted, can it.

What will matter is the product that Ford actually ends up pushing out.  With the good reviews of Lightning, Mach-E upping the game for Ford quality, I think Ford is moving in the right direction.  Now it's a matter of, if they can maintain.

[akirby]

I think it depends on the impact of the change.  Sometimes you have no choice or it’s a no brainer.  
 

We had the same issues when I was coding.  At some point you have to commit, finish the product and get it out the door even though it’s not perfect.

 

It seems obvious that a lot of these changes were just the result of poor planning initially.  Having so many regime changes hasn’t helped either.

[FordBuyer]

Latest report is that tire particulate from heavier full electric vehicles emits more pollution into the air than emissions from modern ICE engine. OUCH! 

[Oac98]

16 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yeah, ford is a great brand, but their plans seem to change more often than the relationship status of your typical social media influencer. 

Pretty much

[silvrsvt]

45 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Latest report is that tire particulate from heavier full electric vehicles emits more pollution into the air than emissions from modern ICE engine. OUCH! 

 

I've been following the auto industry for a very long time now and since when has tire particulate EVER been a concern?

 

Sounds like more oil industry bullshit

[silvrsvt]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:12 PM, bzcat said:

Now I'm really questioning whether Escape and Corsair will be MEB. Makes much more sense to build all 4 on GE2 at Oakville. 

 

Well given the timeline, I think we would have been seeing cobbled together prototypes at this point with the MEB Escape and Corsair? 

The Explorer and Aviator make more sense at Oakville-they are almost done development wise and Oakville should be turning the lights off on the Edge/Nautilus within the next 12 months or so. 

[bzcat]

Explorer/Aviator was originally 2023 but delayed to 2024. Engineering is surely completed on this because of the original target production date but we haven't seen any prototypes yet.

 

Escape/Corsair was originally 2024 but delayed to 2025 (some report says 2026). I think some of this delay is probably due to changing the platform from MEB to GE2. But that's just a theory. 

 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've been following the auto industry for a very long time now and since when has tire particulate EVER been a concern?

 

Sounds like more oil industry bullshit

 

Tire and microplastic pollutants are a concern but minor compared to PM from tailpipe emissions generated by ICE powered vehicles. This is because tire particulate matter tend to stay on the ground rather than become airborne as is the case for ICE tailpipe exhaust where they can cause respiratory issues in people.

 

Some university students in the U.K. came up with a clever electrostatic and airflow based system for capturing tire particulates. The Tyre Collective | James Dyson Award

Edited May 27, 2022 by rperez817

[rmc523]

20 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford’s constantly changing plans over the past five years shows that it’s reactive, not proactive to change, the reason for that was because Ford took up to seven years to go from researching to delivery, meaning most of its plans were bound to be off course.

Thinking things through,

Clearly, Hackett signed  up to MEB because Ford either couldn’t make the figures work with its own GE platform or it saw an easier path for putting Ford top hats onto an already developed electric motor battery drive chassis. Signing up to MEB in 2018 for delivery in Europe in 2023 bay be a sound plan but the delay for Oakville from 2025, it looks like Ford is repeating the same mistakes of the past with slow delivery……..is this really a sound plan for vehicles considered marginally profitable to be built anywhere else but Mexico?

 

The whole thing, MEB built in Canada sounds like a job done moment in 2018 that has been a constant behind the scenes “how do we make this work”. GE2 Explorer/Aviator now to be built in Canada makes more sense but does that prompt a switch for MEB to Mexico, dare they do that after promising for years to build in Canada or does Ford again switch plans and do something else like bzcat suggests and use GE/GE2 for compact vehicles?

We’re all waiting for the next advice from Ford, I’m sure they will have to confirm something in the next year as time is moving on…

 

I still view MEB as a stopgap “get us in the game” move while Ford sorts out its own in-house BEV plan/platform.
 

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've been following the auto industry for a very long time now and since when has tire particulate EVER been a concern?

 

Sounds like more oil industry bullshit

the only time I’ve heard tires mentioned in relation to BEVs is how since they’re heavier it’ll result in more tire wear.

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I still view MEB as a stopgap “get us in the game” move while Ford sorts out its own in-house BEV plan/platform.

For Jim Hackett, his main mission From Bill Ford was to succeed with electrification where Mark Fields clearly failed, so signing up to VW’s MEB electric tool kit was the expediency, an instant answer to a very pressing problem.

The fact that Ford hasn’t said much lately about MEB in Canada could be a sign of that internal re-evaluation, normally Ford and Farley would be crowing about future electric developments like this……..crickets,

Edited May 28, 2022 by jpd80
Autotext spelling mistakes are driving me nuts

[Trader 10]

8 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I've been following the auto industry for a very long time now and since when has tire particulate EVER been a concern?

 

Sounds like more oil industry bullshit

Why the hate for oil? It gives us the freedom to travel anywhere in the world, powers our homes and businesses, and provides heat and air conditioning for our buildings. The bullshit to be concerned about is that spewed by the green movement. 

[jpd80]

10 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Well given the timeline, I think we would have been seeing cobbled together prototypes at this point with the MEB Escape and Corsair? 

The Explorer and Aviator make more sense at Oakville-they are almost done development wise and Oakville should be turning the lights off on the Edge/Nautilus within the next 12 months or so. 

MEB Escape mules running around in Europe hiding in plain sight by using current bodies…Cologne starts producing next year in 23 plus suspected “Focus Active” type vehicle  on MEB. This gives two top hats on MEB to start so maybe easier to change sheet metal for A Corsair?

 

Part of me wonders if GE2 wil now cover two row and Three row Explorer Aviator on say LWB andd SWB like Ford was planning for CD6 Explorer/Edge and Aviator/Nautilus…that would be four vehicles on GE2 plus maybe new Mustang Mach E and then move the MEBs to Mexico?

 

I hope bzcat weighs in on this because his sources might confirm above, maybe differences in top hats are 2-row Edge style fast back vs SUV style Explorer?

Edited May 28, 2022 by jpd80