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Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related


rperez817

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Just companies looking for a handout. Disgusting.  Notice that the largest BEV producer in the world is absent from the letter.  If Tesla can make it without this incentive, so can everyone else.

 

Ford supposedly has more orders for F150 Lightnings than they can fulfill and are worried about additional dealer markups and not allowing dealers to sell the mannequins, yet they feel the need to pursue government subsidies to fuel demand.  I’m in agreement with ice cap adds and akirby on this.  Just a way for manufacturers to make more money at tax payer expense. 

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11 hours ago, akirby said:

More importantly it subsidizes the mfrs by allowing them to charge more and generate more profit.  And it only helps higher income taxpayers.

 

Maybe we should just be subsidizing the mfrs investments in EVs that create new US jobs.

The plug-in tax credit is simply a transfer of tax payer dollars to the auto makers. The auto makers have fallen over each other the past year proclaiming their move to BEVs. There is absolutely no need for any subsidies for investments in EV’s.

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6 hours ago, slemke said:

Just companies looking for a handout. Disgusting.  Notice that the largest BEV producer in the world is absent from the letter.  If Tesla can make it without this incentive, so can everyone else.

 

Ford supposedly has more orders for F150 Lightnings than they can fulfill and are worried about additional dealer markups and not allowing dealers to sell the mannequins, yet they feel the need to pursue government subsidies to fuel demand.  I’m in agreement with ice cap adds and akirby on this.  Just a way for manufacturers to make more money at tax payer expense. 


And people wonder why inflation is out of hand

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I am in Memphis this week and ran into a guy shaping dirt at Blue Oval City so I took a ride up there today. The place is friggin massive and goes on forever. He said there were a few dozen pieces of equipment and I saw a few cranes in the distance. Could not get any photos due to the distance but will be fun if I can watch it come together. 

 

Not impressed with the balance of the area and not sure where they are going to get the labor they will need to make this all come together, let alone the infrastructure that will play a part in this project. 

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44 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

I am in Memphis this week and ran into a guy shaping dirt at Blue Oval City so I took a ride up there today. The place is friggin massive and goes on forever. He said there were a few dozen pieces of equipment and I saw a few cranes in the distance. Could not get any photos due to the distance but will be fun if I can watch it come together. 

 

Not impressed with the balance of the area and not sure where they are going to get the labor they will need to make this all come together, let alone the infrastructure that will play a part in this project. 

Nothing against Memphis but having traveled thrre a handful of times I too wonder how they will get the labor for the massive facility.

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Ford Europe announcement June 22, 2022. Ford Speeds Toward All-Electric, Connected Future in Europe; Chooses Valencia Plant, Spain, for Next-Gen EV Architecture | Ford Media Center

 

Ford in Europe today announced another important stride toward an all-electric future, confirming that it has chosen its plant in Valencia, Spain, as the preferred site to assemble vehicles based on a next-generation electric vehicle architecture. Pending product approval, the Valencia plant could produce breakthrough electric and connected vehicles beginning later this decade.

Ford is also moving forward with a $2 billion conversion of its Cologne, Germany, operations to begin producing electric passenger vehicles starting in 2023. Ford’s European strategy calls for an exciting line-up of electric vehicles, including an electric version of the popular Ford Puma and extending its leadership in the commercial segment with electric Ford Pro vehicles and connected services. By 2026, Ford in Europe plans to sell 600,000 electric vehicles annually.

 

Additional highlights.

  • Ford Europe is on track to meet or exceed European Parliament's requirement that new vehicle sales be 100% zero emission vehicles by 2035
  • Cologne will be headquarters of Ford's Model e business in Europe
  • "Ford’s plans for all-electric future in Europe supports the global goal of 2 million+ annual production of EVs by 2026 and 10% company adjusted EBIT margin by 2026." 
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That leaves Saarlouis as the last ICE-only plant in Europe.

 

Cologne: MEB midsize CUV and CUV coupe (replacement for Kuga... Fiesta's fate unknown)

Craiova: Ford B-platform EV (Puma and Transit Courier, ICE Puma fate unknown)

Valencia: ??? but I'm guessing GE2 (current product: Kuga, Transit Connect, S-Max, Galaxy, all on the chopping block it seems)

Saarlouis: ICE Focus (fate unknown but probably will be the last ICE Ford builds/sells in Europe)

Otosan: Transit and Transit Custom ICE and EV 

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27 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

What other plants do you speculate may close??? Any in North America??? 


If any close here it would be something like Buffalo or Woodhaven. I Don't think we lose any assembly plants until the S650 life cycle completes itself. I don't know enough about global plants to speculate which ones could be on the block, I would have to imagine several engine plants at the very least though. 

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


If any close here it would be something like Buffalo or Woodhaven. I Don't think we lose any assembly plants until the S650 life cycle completes itself. I don't know enough about global plants to speculate which ones could be on the block, I would have to imagine several engine plants at the very least though. 

That makes sense, if it happens we shall see. 

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18 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Well that explains the lack of product plan for that plant... Ford has scaled back volume significantly in Europe so makes sense it wants to close the most expensive plant.

 

Also looks like Focus is done in 2025. 

 

So putting everything together, it appears Valencia is getting the Focus replacement EV. 

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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


If any close here it would be something like Buffalo or Woodhaven. I Don't think we lose any assembly plants until the S650 life cycle completes itself. I don't know enough about global plants to speculate which ones could be on the block, I would have to imagine several engine plants at the very least though. 

From what has been said, FRAP has been speculated to get an EV Mustang in 2028.  However like I said earlier, while EVs will be a significant chunk of the market moving forward, it will not be the "all electric" futures many are fantasizing about. 

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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


If any close here it would be something like Buffalo or Woodhaven. I Don't think we lose any assembly plants until the S650 life cycle completes itself. I don't know enough about global plants to speculate which ones could be on the block, I would have to imagine several engine plants at the very least though. 

Woodhaven has specialized in hot metal stamping in recent years so it should have a place with Ford in the foreseeable future. 

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28 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Car and Driver posted an article today that indicates Ford/Ford Credit no longer allows lessees for its BEV (Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning, E-Transit) to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease. This policy went into effect on June 15, 2022. Ford Won't Let You Buy Your Leased EV When the Contract Ends (caranddriver.com) 


I think I get what they’re trying to do but I hate it. What’s next, are they only going to lease EVs?

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I think I get what they’re trying to do but I hate it. What’s next, are they only going to lease EVs?

My guess is that’s correct or at least a lot of price pressure to do that so Ford gets the vehicle back at the end of the contract. I don’t doubt that Ford wants to increase it’s used EV vehicle inventory but scalping new buyers is not the way to do that…

 

How about this,

Guaranteed price online order  direct with Ford provided that you lease via Ford credit and surrender back to Ford, buy through a dealer and risk some hefty dealer mark ups that erode any profit at the the disposal point at say three or four years time…that sounds like a two pronged attack on buyers.

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

My guess is that’s correct or at least a lot of price pressure to do that so Ford gets the vehicle back at the end of the contract. I don’t doubt that Ford wants to increase it’s used EV vehicle inventory but scalping new buyers is not the way to do that…

 

How about this,

Guaranteed price online order  direct with Ford provided that you lease via Ford credit and surrender back to Ford, buy through a dealer and risk some hefty dealer mark ups that erode any profit at the the disposal point at say three or four years time…that sounds like a two pronged attack on buyers.


No matter how you look at it the customer loses. Not a good thing at all. 

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

My guess is that’s correct or at least a lot of price pressure to do that so Ford gets the vehicle back at the end of the contract. I don’t doubt that Ford wants to increase it’s used EV vehicle inventory but scalping new buyers is not the way to do that…

 

How about this,

Guaranteed price online order  direct with Ford provided that you lease via Ford credit and surrender back to Ford, buy through a dealer and risk some hefty dealer mark ups that erode any profit at the the disposal point at say three or four years time…that sounds like a two pronged attack on buyers.

I really am starting to question Ford’s direction lately. I really hope what ever Jim Farley is planning here that it works. I feel like Ford is in abit of disarray lately. All these recalls, questionable quality, this dealer mess the whole BEV plan. Maybe I’m wrong I don’t know.

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1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

I really am starting to question Ford’s direction lately. I really hope what ever Jim Farley is planning here that it works. I feel like Ford is in abit of disarray lately. All these recalls, questionable quality, this dealer mess the whole BEV plan. Maybe I’m wrong I don’t know.

There is a price to pay for cost cutting and that’s showing with all,of those recall problems that you’d think would be nailed years ago. I think Ford has a big problem with compact EVs and that something like a roomier small mid sized EV is more likely the plan in the future…

 

Im beginning to wonder if a well thought out PHEV may be a better plan for compacts, especially for North America and some far flung antipodean colonies. Whatever happens, I hope Canadian workers get good contracts based on solid future EV production.

 

49 minutes ago, akirby said:


If you’re planning to buy it out just buy the damn thing to begin with.

I guess there’s always an option to pay cash or lease outside of Ford and pay full retail and dealer markups but in the end, is it really worth it….What I’m wondering is whether locking into a Ford Credit lease with online pricing stops those nasty dealer markups and if so, why worry about the future residual value….

 

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


No matter how you look at it the customer loses. Not a good thing at all. 

Yes and now that all vehicle residual prices are much higher, dealers and Ford want that extra cash, not let buyers have that…

Edited by jpd80
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