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Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related


rperez817

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One thing that Ford is pushing now is integration with Amazon's Alexa-they've give it to you but you get charged after that. I really don't have a need for it since I just my Firebox just to control my TV, but if someone had more to their home, it might be worth while. 

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23 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

One thing that Ford is pushing now is integration with Amazon's Alexa-they've give it to you but you get charged after that. I really don't have a need for it since I just my Firebox just to control my TV, but if someone had more to their home, it might be worth while. 

 

That's correct silvrsvt. On my wife's Mustang Mach-E, Ford provided a 3-year subscription to Alexa Built-In including enhanced Car Control. Ford's Alexa Built-In Rollout Continues; New, Enhanced Car Control Personalizes In-Vehicle Experiences | Ford Media Center

 

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12 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct silvrsvt. On my wife's Mustang Mach-E, Ford provided a 3-year subscription to Alexa Built-In including enhanced Car Control. Ford's Alexa Built-In Rollout Continues; New, Enhanced Car Control Personalizes In-Vehicle Experiences | Ford Media Center

 

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 Siri (Apple Car Play) is still free, Apple Music, Home etc require subscriptions for certain features.  Side note; Will Amazon change the voice interface's name to keep up with the times?  Imagine if Ford offered this in 1922: "Mildrid, find a haberdashery..."

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I don't seem to have Alexa on my Mach E. I wonder if I need to await a software update for it. I did find Alexa on my Expedition that finally arrived. It seems there are two parts, though. "Alexa" per se, and some "Ford Streaming" thing that's about to expire. And when I, as a computer and tech literate guy, try to find out what all of this stuff is, I find out that Ford's website kind of sucks and doesn't make anything at all clear.

 

Between "Hello Ford," "Hey Siri," and "Alexa," I won't be too sad if Alexa stops working when my Ford Streaming trial ends in a few days. In a world where everyone has cellular phones with unlimited data packages, I don't see who's paying $120 a year for Ford Streaming, plus whatever the AT&T Hot Spot service costs, plus cell phone. I guess it's people who just have more money than brains, or are just bad at personal financial management, or make so much that they don't worry about personal financial management.

 

I'm a little peeved to find out that BlueCruise was "included" but am now told it's only a "trial"; it's the whole reason I stepped up to Platinum.

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30 minutes ago, balthisar said:

I'm a little peeved to find out that BlueCruise was "included" but am now told it's only a "trial"; it's the whole reason I stepped up to Platinum.


This is what bugs me most about it. I paid for the hardware, now they’re telling me f*ck you, you don't get to use it. Nah, I'm not about that. 

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31 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

Good to know, thanks! I was imagining families that had an "Alexa" in the household could potentially be subject to charges of abuse.


Star Trek fans change the wake-up word to “computer” then say it in a Scottish accent.

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Today, Ford announced an agreement to purchase 650 MW of electricity generated via solar arrays from DTE Energy for use by Ford facilities in Michigan. This represents the largest purchase of electricity from renewable sources by any single business in U.S. history. Ford Motor Company and DTE Energy Announce the Largest Renewable Energy Purchase from a Utility in U.S. History | Ford Media Center

 

Highlights.

  • Through its MIGreenPower program, DTE to add 650 megawatts of new solar energy in Michigan for Ford, increasing the total amount of installed solar in Michigan by nearly 70%
  • By 2025, every Ford vehicle manufactured in Michigan will be assembled with the equivalent of 100% carbon-free electricity, 10 years earlier than Ford’s global goal
  • Ford’s purchase of carbon-free electricity will avoid as much as 600,000 tons of carbon dioxide emissions

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Autonomy, the startup company in California that offers a subscription based usage model for Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, announced today that it ordered 1,800 Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning for its fleet. This represents about $88 million in business for Ford. Pretty sure that Autonomy is paying MSRP for those vehicles (no fleet dumping). GM, Ford win big share of EV purchase by startup subscription company (freep.com)

 

Autonomy launched in January, choosing Tesla because of Tesla's EV sales leadership at the time, said Scott Painter, CEO of Autonomy.

But now, “with every automaker going all-in on electric and so many exciting new products coming to market in the next six to 18 months, we have placed our fleet order and are excited to expand our subscription lineup," Painter said.

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Autonomy, the startup company in California that offers a subscription based usage model for Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, announced today that it ordered 1,800 Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning for its fleet. This represents about $88 million in business for Ford. Pretty sure that Autonomy is paying MSRP for those vehicles (no fleet dumping). GM, Ford win big share of EV purchase by startup subscription company (freep.com)

Reminds me a little of the Cadillac flexible leasing deal where people could switch vehicles, I wonder how that went..

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19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Reminds me a little of the Cadillac flexible leasing deal where people could switch vehicles, I wonder how that went..

 

Good memory jpd80, that was the Book by Cadillac deal. It operated between January 2017 and November 2018. GM said in November 2019 that "the car subscription service is scheduled to return in February 2020", but that apparently didn't happen. Book by Cadillac subscription service rebooted, returns next year in California - CNET

 

Ford also had a subscription service for used Fords and Lincolns called Canvas between 2017 and 2019, when it was sold to a company called Fair. Fair stopped its car subscription service last year.

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I was reading where this new tax credit for EVs limit the MSRP to $80k for a truck or SUV or $55k for a sedan vehicle. There are many other stipulations for the manufacturers to qualify, but that's a big one that's going to cut a lot of vehicles out of the benefit.

 

MSRP limits are a joke since vehicle prices are rising extremely fast. It actually forces manufacturers to offer lower priced EVs which in turns hurts their profitability. Looks like a government price control without being a government price control. Within 5 years with those limits few vehicles will qualify for that nice tax credit.

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1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

I was reading where this new tax credit for EVs limit the MSRP to $80k for a truck or SUV or $55k for a sedan vehicle. There are many other stipulations for the manufacturers to qualify, but that's a big one that's going to cut a lot of vehicles out of the benefit.

 

MSRP limits are a joke since vehicle prices are rising extremely fast. It actually forces manufacturers to offer lower priced EVs which in turns hurts their profitability. Looks like a government price control without being a government price control. Within 5 years with those limits few vehicles will qualify for that nice tax credit.


It won’t hurt those sales because people paying that much aren’t in it just for the tax credit, which is also why it’s not really needed.

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1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

I was reading where this new tax credit for EVs limit the MSRP to $80k for a truck or SUV or $55k for a sedan vehicle. There are many other stipulations for the manufacturers to qualify, but that's a big one that's going to cut a lot of vehicles out of the benefit.

 

MSRP limits are a joke since vehicle prices are rising extremely fast. It actually forces manufacturers to offer lower priced EVs which in turns hurts their profitability. Looks like a government price control without being a government price control. Within 5 years with those limits few vehicles will qualify for that nice tax credit.

 

It's a moot point since (apparently) none of the OEM's that build in North America can meet the domestic sourcing requirement for the minerals in the battery. It's telling that none of the OEM's have made any statements about being able to meet that requirement today, or when in the future they can meet the requirement. GM in particular, since they've trumpeted news release after news release about Ultium (or whatever it's called) - if they could meet the requirement, they would be shouting from the rooftops. The silence is deafening.

 

Edit: Tesla does meet the domestic requirement:  https://www.autonews.com/retail/tesla-will-regain-ev-tax-credit-2023-may-not-need-it?utm_source=dont-miss&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20220818&utm_content=hero-headline

Edited by Harley Lover
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26 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

It's a moot point since (apparently) none of the OEM's that build in North America can meet the domestic sourcing requirement for the minerals in the battery. It's telling that none of the OEM's have made any statements about being able to meet that requirement today, or when in the future they can meet the requirement. GM in particular, since they've trumpeted news release after news release about Ultium (or whatever it's called) - if they could meet the requirement, they would be shouting from the rooftops. The silence is deafening.

 

Treasury has not issued the interpretation on how they will administer the law so no body knows. This law strikes me as be careful what you wish for because you may get it! ?

 

The source of mineral is a problem but he big one is income phase out. It means the $60-$100k EV will face some headwind because they are typically purchased by individuals that will be income phased out but not actually wealthy. Ironically the $100+k EV will be fine and the $30-$50k  EV will also be fine too. Think about it in the context of Ford - Most of its F150 Lightning buyers are probably in this group. Do they now focus on the $100+k market where tax credits don't matter or they make sure there are enough products in the sub $50k market so they are not losing market share which is important to maintain volume to achieve economy of scale on battery production.

 

But it's clear that GM and Tesla will regain some form of the credit because their EVs and batteries are made in North America. Hyundai is the big loser because none of its EV or batteries are made in North America. 

 

Audi was going to build the Q6 in Europe with Porsche Macan but they will probably move that to Mexico where Q5 is currently built. This also means Audi's plan to keep the Q5 going next to Q6 will probably change. 

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52 minutes ago, bzcat said:

But it's clear that GM and Tesla will regain some form of the credit because their EVs and batteries are made in North America. 

 

Not clear to analysts in the industry (GM in 2025): 

Quote

According to consulting firm E Source, Tesla is likely be the first automaker to sell EVs that qualify for the full $7,500 EV tax credit, beginning around mid-2024 (Tesla will qualify for partial credit in 2023). E Source said its projections are based "on current OEM manufacturing strategies and information in the Inflation Reduction Act."

Ford, General Motors and GM's EV partner Honda are likely to qualify for the full credit a year later (2025), according to the E Source forecast.

Hyundai, Rivian, Volkswagen and Volvo could follow in 2026. Tesla's luxury rivals Mercedes, BMW and Lexus may not qualify until the later part of the decade.

E Source did not offer predictions on when automakers might qualify for a partial credit.

 

Source is link I posted above.

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

Treasury has not issued the interpretation on how they will administer the law so no body knows. This law strikes me as be careful what you wish for because you may get it! ?

 

The source of mineral is a problem but he big one is income phase out. It means the $60-$100k EV will face some headwind because they are typically purchased by individuals that will be income phased out but not actually wealthy. Ironically the $100+k EV will be fine and the $30-$50k  EV will also be fine too. Think about it in the context of Ford - Most of its F150 Lightning buyers are probably in this group. Do they now focus on the $100+k market where tax credits don't matter or they make sure there are enough products in the sub $50k market so they are not losing market share which is important to maintain volume to achieve economy of scale on battery production.

 

But it's clear that GM and Tesla will regain some form of the credit because their EVs and batteries are made in North America. Hyundai is the big loser because none of its EV or batteries are made in North America. 

 

Audi was going to build the Q6 in Europe with Porsche Macan but they will probably move that to Mexico where Q5 is currently built. This also means Audi's plan to keep the Q5 going next to Q6 will probably change. 

Yes. It seems to me between the income phase outs, MSRP limits and material/supply sourcing very few will ever qualify for these credits. Basically they were written in to say hey look at what great things we are doing for the environment by promoting EVs, yet they'll never have to pay much out. It's a joke.

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29 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

Yes. It seems to me between the income phase outs, MSRP limits and material/supply sourcing very few will ever qualify for these credits. Basically they were written in to say hey look at what great things we are doing for the environment by promoting EVs, yet they'll never have to pay much out. It's a joke.


No, it’s to incent mfrs to build more affordable EVs in the US and to source components here.  Those that do will have a big advantage.

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1 hour ago, pffan1990 said:

Looks like Lincoln will be revealing its EV concept tonight at 8pm Eastern time. I was confused at first because they already revealed the STAR concept last spring. I think this may be the Aviator EV concept?

 

https://fordauthority.com/2022/08/lincoln-ev-concept-teased-ahead-of-imminent-reveal/

I love that Ford's new design president is already living up to his word of doing more concepts. The world needs more of that. I highly doubt it will happen, but it would be amazing if Ford brought some cool concepts to Pebble Beach. Like a sporty Thunderbird Ev concept assuming they're still working on that product.

 

Also, dare I say that in that video, and teaser pics, it looks more like a sedan or coupe? Some SUVs have wide and pronounced hips, but those look even wider than the s550's. It also has a fastback roofline. So do many crossovers, but they're rooflines aren't as graceful, as what is shown in that teaser pic. That looks extremely swoopy to me. I could be 100% wrong, but I'm calling it now, this isn't just another crossover. Now you have my attention Lincoln. 

Edited by DeluxeStang
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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I love that Ford's new design president is already living up to his word of doing more concepts. The world needs more of that. I highly doubt it will happen, but it would be amazing if Ford brought some cool concepts to Pebble Beach. Like a sporty Thunderbird Ev concept assuming they're still working on that product.

 

Also, dare I say that in that video, and teaser pics, it looks more like a sedan or coupe? Some SUVs have wide and pronounced hips, but those look even wider than the s550's. It also has a fastback roofline. So do many crossovers, but they're rooflines aren't as graceful, as what is shown in that teaser pic. That looks extremely swoopy to me. I could be 100% wrong, but I'm calling it now, this isn't just another crossover. Now you have my attention Lincoln. 

 

Yes! Right after my previous post here, I later went back and watched the preview video on Lincoln's FB page again. I set the video to run very slow and paused it. Took an interesting screenshot and you're right! Fastback roofline with curvy sides/hips. Perhaps it's a crossover but with sports car look. Mark IX? That would fit with your Thunderbird EV suggestion (didn't realize Ford was working on that project at some point) since the Mark VII and Mark VIII of the 80s and 90s were based on the then-Thunderbird. Wouldn't it be funny if it is indeed a sporty-car-styled crossover and Lincoln is doing this to take the new Charger EV's attention away from press? lol It could possibly just be the upcoming Aviator EV with the sporty styling cues though... which would still be good.

Lincoln EV Concept Video - Screenshot.jpg

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1 hour ago, pffan1990 said:

 

Yes! Right after my previous post here, I later went back and watched the preview video on Lincoln's FB page again. I set the video to run very slow and paused it. Took an interesting screenshot and you're right! Fastback roofline with curvy sides/hips. Perhaps it's a crossover but with sports car look. Mark IX? That would fit with your Thunderbird EV suggestion (didn't realize Ford was working on that project at some point) since the Mark VII and Mark VIII of the 80s and 90s were based on the then-Thunderbird. Wouldn't it be funny if it is indeed a sporty-car-styled crossover and Lincoln is doing this to take the new Charger EV's attention away from press? lol It could possibly just be the upcoming Aviator EV with the sporty styling cues though... which would still be good.

Lincoln EV Concept Video - Screenshot.jpg

The Thunderbird is rumored to be a c8 rival, we'll see if that ends up manifesting. There's no way this is an aviator, the height and shape of that roofline looks comparable to a mustang, and other sports coupes.  At the very least, like you said, it's some kind of raised sports car or sedan that they try to market as a crossover. Hopefully that isn't the case, because those rarely look good, hopefully it's just a pure sports car or something. This could be the mustang based lincoln everyone has been begging for coming to fruition.

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It's the Lincoln Model L100 Concept revealed at Pebble Beach. A homage to the 1922 Lincoln Model L as part of brand's 100th anniversary celebration. It's got the long hood/short deck coupe look. Could this also be a hint of Mustang coupe EV in terms of basic silhouette design?? Has 4 seats with odd opening doors and roof, which is typical with concept cars. I like it and can't wait to see what Lincoln has planned for its EVs.

 

https://media.lincoln.com/content/lincolnmedia/lna/us/en/news/2022/08/18/lincoln-model-l100-concept-reveal.html

 

https://www.motortrend.com/events/lincoln-model-l100-concept-first-look-review/

 

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lincoln-model-l100-concept-monterey-pebble-beach/

 

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/lincoln-model-l100-concept/

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