Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related

[Rick73]

21 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The issue with the S and Y is that they look like a S/3 that turned into a blood swollen tick. The major disadvantage to them is they have no high cargo area in the rear that would be offered in a traditional 2 box shape like the Escape for example.

Assuming you are comparing the taller SUV X and Y to their sedan S and 3 counterparts, the taller SUVs look better to me, at least in their side profile.  The added height looks more balanced to me, not bloated like a tick.

 

I understand your comment about disadvantage of a hatchback design for carrying taller cargo versus regular SUV.  However, I owned a German Ford hatchback for many years and that never came up.  The very few times I needed to haul larger items, I folded back seat flat and slid cargo forward into rear seat area so hatch could close.  I loved how practical that car was — could haul most things I could get in a station wagon, and even some I couldn’t because rear cargo area was longer in the Ford hatchback.

[AM222]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:28 PM, Rick73 said:

Unless batteries get so cheap and light that it doesn’t matter how much battery capacity is needed to achieve reasonable highway range, I think aerodynamics will remain critical to BEV success.  That’s how Tesla has accomplished much of its success in designing vehicles with best efficiency (as in miles per kWh).  I just don’t see personal boxy vehicles with aerodynamics of a brick working out well for many years to come. It would be OK in cities but buyers need to drive at highway speeds for longer distances also.   I was glad to see Farley mention aerodynamics during recent interview.

I read that Ford plans to build affordable EVs in China (most likely cars and/or CUVs), which it plans to export to some markets. Just curious which markets. 

Ford China currently exports to left-hand drive Asian countries, Middle East, South America, and Mexico. The only Ford China-sourced model headed to the USA and Canada is the recently-launched 2024 Lincoln Nautilus.

Edited May 22, 2023 by AM222

[silvrsvt]

11 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Assuming you are comparing the taller SUV X and Y to their sedan S and 3 counterparts, the taller SUVs look better to me, at least in their side profile.  The added height looks more balanced to me, not bloated like a tick.

 

I understand your comment about disadvantage of a hatchback design for carrying taller cargo versus regular SUV.  However, I owned a German Ford hatchback for many years and that never came up.  The very few times I needed to haul larger items, I folded back seat flat and slid cargo forward into rear seat area so hatch could close.  I loved how practical that car was — could haul most things I could get in a station wagon, and even some I couldn’t because rear cargo area was longer in the Ford hatchback.

 

Yeah they just look terrible to me. The beltlines are just overwrought for no real increase in capability. They look better than other fast hatchback designs in the past, but they just look like jacked up sedans.

 

I've run into issues with sedans and coupes (Mustang) over the years with certain items and just being able to fit things without even thinking twice about it (like home improvement projects) makes the extra expense of having a truck or S/CUV worth-I got that with my Bronco the past couple weeks with having to buy stuff from Home Depot or Lowes the past few weeks.

[mackinaw]

Ford is meeting with Wall Street today.  Some excerpts from that meeting:

 

"Among the updates shared: Ford is developing a three-row SUV as part of its second generation of electric vehicles. Doug Field, Ford's chief advanced product development and technology officer, teased an "affordable" family vehicle that he described as a "personal bullet train."The vehicle, which is targeting an estimated 350 miles of range on a single charge with a smaller, more efficient battery, is slated to launch in 2025.  The SUV would join a new electric pickup truck Ford previously announced it's developing as part of its second generation EV lineup, a project that's codenamed 'T3.' That truck will be built at Ford's under-construction manufacturing campus in Tennessee."

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/05/22/ford-executives-to-give-markets-an-update-on-business-plan/70242261007/

[DeluxeStang]

Both designs shown under sheets. We can see t3 will have a lower nose as expected, and a slightly shorter hood. The SUV appears to be quite low/curvaceous. 

[joseodiaga4]

Ford Three-Row Electric SUV Coming In 2025 With 350 Miles Of Range

 

"Doug Field sharing some new details on Ford EVs. Says a 3-row family SUV is coming in 2025 with a 350-mile range. He likened it to an Expedition." For context, Doug Field is Ford's chief advanced product development and technology officer.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/668467/ford-three-row-electric-suv-coming-2025-350-miles-range/

Edited May 22, 2023 by joseodiaga4

[rmc523]

On 5/20/2023 at 11:04 PM, silvrsvt said:

Well according the to the document posted in the future Ford post-the BEV Escape will hit in 2026 or so...

 

The Maverick and Bronco Sport are scheduled for production till 2032 or later....only thing I see happening is the Bronco Sport gets a minor refresh and hybrid in the next 18-24 months. The Escape/Corsair will be a bit of an orphan since they are built on a slightly different C2 platform and the Kuga is dying off soon in the EU...not sure about the plans for China.I don't see a BEV Maverick/Bronco Sport till after the start of next decade, unless battery prices drop dramatically and are on par with profit margins for ICE for those products.   

 

Maverick/Bronco Sport will need far more than just a minor refresh if they're to last another 9 years.  Hopefully 2 refreshes if they're to last that long.

 

15 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Assuming you are comparing the taller SUV X and Y to their sedan S and 3 counterparts, the taller SUVs look better to me, at least in their side profile.  The added height looks more balanced to me, not bloated like a tick.

 

I understand your comment about disadvantage of a hatchback design for carrying taller cargo versus regular SUV.  However, I owned a German Ford hatchback for many years and that never came up.  The very few times I needed to haul larger items, I folded back seat flat and slid cargo forward into rear seat area so hatch could close.  I loved how practical that car was — could haul most things I could get in a station wagon, and even some I couldn’t because rear cargo area was longer in the Ford hatchback.

 

You may need to see your eye doctor for some glasses if you think the X looks better than the S lol.  The 3/Y is 50/50.

 

43 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Both designs shown under sheets. We can see t3 will have a lower nose as expected, and a slightly shorter hood. The SUV appears to be quite low/curvaceous. 

 

I picture something like a modern day "Aero-150" (the '97-03 model).

[silvrsvt]

That SUV concept has a really low nose on it..reminds me sorta of the GT. I wonder if that is going to be the BEV Explorer?

[DeluxeStang]

59 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

That SUV concept has a really low nose on it..reminds me sorta of the GT. I wonder if that is going to be the BEV Explorer?

Apparently that's the three row expedition type vehicle. They mentioned how they were going to make a EV expedition, but scraped that idea in favor of a dedicated ev three row to create something less compromised. 

 

Is it just me, or does t3 also look noticably wider/ lower than the current lighting? Could just be distortion from the camera, but that overall shape definitely looks sportier to me. 

[silvrsvt]

13 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Is it just me, or does t3 also look noticably wider/ lower than the current lighting? Could just be distortion from the camera, but that overall shape definitely looks sportier to me. 

 

I'd say its lower definitely-less frontal area is good-the wider part might just be the angle it is on. 

[DeluxeStang]

40 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'd say its lower definitely-less frontal area is good-the wider part might just be the angle it is on. 

Yeah, based off this teaser, and everything Ford has said this far, it almost sounds like T3 will be ford's supertruck. More radical styling, much higher levels of performance, better tech etc. A true rival to the R1T and Hummer EVs. 

[Rick73]

8 hours ago, rmc523 said:

You may need to see your eye doctor for some glasses if you think the X looks better than the S lol.  The 3/Y is 50/50.

Yeah, I was thinking more about Model 3 versus Y, not that it matters to me because I won’t seriously consider any BEV much larger than a 2+2 about the size of the original Mustang or latest Prius; perhaps a little taller would be OK.  Any large BEV seems a total waste for my needs.

 

Took a closer look at Model 3 trunk today and indeed small opening would limit loading larger items.  A hatch similar to Y would be more useful.  The Model 3 trunk lid actually reminded me of my 65 Mustang Fastback because rear glass extends so far back that it limits trunk opening size.

[Captainp4]

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1eaJbrAPnBVJX?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0S12zJO2oZs0I5_R6IY4fMa3_OhLcBRDoFn3hvdUwf8AkmSkUKA3TFqKU

[rperez817]

5 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1eaJbrAPnBVJX?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0S12zJO2oZs0I5_R6IY4fMa3_OhLcBRDoFn3hvdUwf8AkmSkUKA3TFqKU

 

Thanks Captainp4, this is great news! Here is the official Ford press release regarding the company's agreement with Tesla. Ford EV Customers To Gain Access to 12,000 Tesla Superchargers; Company to Add North American Charging Standard Port in Future EVs | Ford Media Center

 

DEARBORN, Mich., May 25, 2023 – Ford Motor Company said today it reached an agreement with Tesla Motors that will provide Ford electric vehicle customers access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers across the U.S. and Canada, doubling the number of fast-chargers available to Ford EV customers starting Spring 2024.

A Tesla-developed adapter will provide Ford F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E and E-Transit vehicles fitted with the Combined Charging System (CCS) port access to Tesla’s V3 Superchargers. Ford will equip future EVs with the NACS charge port, removing the need for an adapter for direct access to Tesla Superchargers, starting in 2025.

“Tesla has led the industry in creating a large, reliable and efficient charging system and we are pleased to be able to join forces in a way that benefits customers and overall EV adoption,” said Marin Gjaja, chief customer officer, Ford Model e. “The Tesla Supercharger network has excellent reliability and the NACS plug is smaller and lighter.  Overall, this provides a superior experience for customers.”

 

[twintornados]

Could this agreement be the first step in the process of Ford buying the entire Tesla operation from Musk?

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, twintornados said:

Could this agreement be the first step in the process of Ford buying the entire Tesla operation from Musk?

 

Ford doesn't have the resources to do that. Yesterday's announcement is just another step in the ongoing process at Ford to implement industry best practices regarding BEV.

[rperez817]

As in the past, Jim Farley mentioned during yesterday's Morgan Stanley conference that Chinese automakers especially BYD Auto (which like Tesla designs and produces EV batteries in-house) are a much bigger competitive threat to Ford than traditional rivals like Toyota and GM. Ford's Farley: 'We see the Chinese as the main competitor' (detroitnews.com)

 

Quote

As far as the Chinese (are) concerned, it’s going to be really humbling. They produce 70% of the electric vehicles in the world in China," Farley said. "The Chinese are going to be the powerhouse, we think. To beat them, you either have to have a very distinct brand — which we think we do, by leaning into our icons — or you have to beat them on cost. But how do you beat them on cost if their scale is five times yours?"

“I like BYD. Totally vertically-integrated, aggressive, unapologetic," he said. "Very, very impressive company."

Edited May 26, 2023 by rperez817

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thanks Captainp4, this is great news! Here is the official Ford press release regarding the company's agreement with Tesla. Ford EV Customers To Gain Access to 12,000 Tesla Superchargers; Company to Add North American Charging Standard Port in Future EVs | Ford Media Center

 

 

 

 

 

In the short term, this is great as customers can access both systems.

 

But long term, if other manufacturers, and more importantly, charging infrastructure goes to the current port, this is not a good thing, as you'd need a "reverse" adapter.

[silvrsvt]

6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

But long term, if other manufacturers, and more importantly, charging infrastructure goes to the current port, this is not a good thing, as you'd need a "reverse" adapter.

 

I think the mindset right now is that its not exactly smart to think the current gen of EVs will be worth keeping more than five years anyways...too many improvements/changes that will be happening to make keeping current gen EV worthwhile. 

 

I was under the impression that a standard was already selected for EV charging by the government, but Tesla isn't using it on their fast charging stations, if I'm understanding it correctly?

[rmc523]

40 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think the mindset right now is that its not exactly smart to think the current gen of EVs will be worth keeping more than five years anyways...too many improvements/changes that will be happening to make keeping current gen EV worthwhile. 

 

I was under the impression that a standard was already selected for EV charging by the government, but Tesla isn't using it on their fast charging stations, if I'm understanding it correctly?

 

That's what I'm getting at - I was under the impression that just about everyone else was on the other standard (here and abroad), and Tesla had their own.

 

I could be wrong, but if that's the case, I'm not sure why they'd make this move.

[Rick73]

48 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

In the short term, this is great as customers can access both systems.

 

But long term, if other manufacturers, and more importantly, charging infrastructure goes to the current port, this is not a good thing, as you'd need a "reverse" adapter.

Articles make it sound as if Tesla has the better charger design, and if they are not going to keep it proprietary, then why not adopt it as the new standard going forward?  This may be the first step in that direction if I understand information correctly.

 

By the way, this is great for Ford owners, but I’m not as certain all Tesla owners think this is great news for them.  Some think it will make charging less convenient because they may have to wait longer, or be directed to chargers further away.  Other Tesla owners see some positive in this news because it will undoubtedly lead to greater numbers of Tesla Super Chargers, which helps them too.  Like most things, there are pros and cons for Tesla owners too.  For Ford owners, it sounds like a win-win; provided charging costs are kept reasonable.

[rperez817]

3 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

By the way, this is great for Ford owners, but I’m not as certain all Tesla owners think this is great news for them.  Some think it will make charging less convenient because they may have to wait longer, or be directed to chargers further away.  Other Tesla owners see some positive in this news because it will undoubtedly lead to greater numbers of Tesla Super Chargers, which helps them too.  Like most things, there are pros and cons for Tesla owners too.  For Ford owners, it sounds like a win-win; provided charging costs are kept reasonable.

 

Good points Rick73. I own a Tesla Model S and my wife owns a Mustang Mach-E. We both think that Ford's announcement involving Tesla Supercharger access for Ford EV owners as well as the eventual implementation of NACS charge port for future Ford BEV represents a big win overall for everyone. The negatives are far outweighed by the positives.

 

In fact, the Ford-Tesla agreement is a great example of another automaker working with Tesla to achieve Tesla's mission, which is as critical as ever: Accelerating the World's Transition to Sustainable Energy.

[rmc523]

Edited May 26, 2023 by rmc523

[Rick73]

48 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

I own a Tesla Model S and my wife owns a Mustang Mach-E. We both think that Ford's announcement involving Tesla Supercharger access for Ford EV owners as well as the eventual implementation of NACS charge port for future Ford BEV represents a big win overall for everyone. The negatives are far outweighed by the positives.

rperez817, I’m curious what are “typical” differences in fast DC charging of your Mach E versus your Tesla S, particularly maximum rate (kW) and ease of entire process.  I’m not sure which Tesla S or Mach E you have, but assume your Model S charges much faster than your wife’s Mach E, especially when kWh are converted to MPH of driving range.  I’m interesting in learning about typical or normal charging, not that one unusual day when all-stars-aligned kind of event.

[Captainp4]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

rperez817, I’m curious what are “typical” differences in fast DC charging of your Mach E versus your Tesla S, particularly maximum rate (kW) and ease of entire process.  I’m not sure which Tesla S or Mach E you have, but assume your Model S charges much faster than your wife’s Mach E, especially when kWh are converted to MPH of driving range.  I’m interesting in learning about typical or normal charging, not that one unusual day when all-stars-aligned kind of event.

Tesla chargers are faster and always work because they're a decade+ ahead of everyone else on developing all of this stuff*

*I don't own any BEV currently and this is my best guess based on a lot of youtube videos and reading articles