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rperez817

Electric Vehicle Discussion Thread - Ford Related

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11 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I don't have issue paying extra for something-but once it interferes with what I would consider normal operation of a vehicle, there is going to be a strong push back.

 

I know BMW got raked over the coals for their heated seats thing, but it was along the line of hey you didn't pay for it up front and want it now (you moved from the South to Chicago for example), I think a subscription fee or a one time charge to turn it on (if its built in) isn't a bad thing. 

 

I don't have a problem with a one time fee down the road if you want to turn a feature on.....or maybe a "subscription to buy" payment plan.  But no to outright subscriptions for me.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't have a problem with a one time fee down the road if you want to turn a feature on.....or maybe a "subscription to buy" payment plan.  But no to outright subscriptions for me.


No. I'm tired of corporations nickel and dimeing their customers. I paid for the feature to be in the car, end of transaction. Period. 

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23 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


No. I'm tired of corporations nickel and dimeing their customers. I paid for the feature to be in the car, end of transaction. Period. 


Except going forward you won’t be paying for it up front.

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5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

I don't think that is related to agreements between Farley and Munro, but simply Farley's own understanding of the ongoing automotive industry revolution. Prior to the Munro Live interview, the companies Farley has mentioned by name in terms of "the competitors Ford must address" are.

  • Amazon
  • Apple
  • Baidu
  • NIO
  • Tesla
  • Toyota

Farley is absolutely correct about each of those companies representing Ford's biggest competition nowadays, though I think Farley mentioned Toyota mainly because he used to work for them. Toyota's progress with BEV remains among the worst of all incumbent automakers.

Hyundai/Kia is the company he most spotlighted in the interview. Along with one or more Chinese firms yet-to-be-determined. 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


No. I'm tired of corporations nickel and dimeing their customers. I paid for the feature to be in the car, end of transaction. Period. 

 

That's what I'm saying.  I meant if you did NOT initially order the option, and decide you want it later, you could THEN pay a one time fee or payment plan for it (say 3-6 months and then no more payments), but NO subscriptions.

 

Otherwise, I'm right there with you - I order it and pay for it at vehicle purchase, and that's that.  No subscription for me.

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I’m not in favor of it for something like heated seats but for software features it makes a lot of sense.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry guys, I suspect that Doug Field is pitching the same connectivity dog and pony software subscription deal, that may work for commercial telematics but when it’s applied to retail as subscriptions access to features , I think a BMW type pushback will come from the public. It’s these techys from the mobile phone and computer aps trying to treat cars the same, I hate the way they think they can hold buyers to random this way, especially after charging the max for vehicles in the first place.

Edited by jpd80

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The more I read about what these executives want to do, the more comfortable I feel in saying the next new car I buy will be the last one I buy new off the lot. 

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25 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Sorry guys, I suspect that Doug Field is pitching the same connectivity dog and pony software subscription deal, that may work for commercial telematics but when it’s applied to retail as subscriptions access to features , I think a BMW type pushback will come from the public. It’s these techys from the mobile phone and computer aps trying to treat cars the same, I hate the way they think they can hold buyers to random this way, especially after charging the max for vehicles in the first place.


I don’t see this working for physical hardware like heated seats because the mfr would be paying to install things the customer might not pay for..unless they’re going to install it, include it in the vehicle price then double dip with a subscription fee.  But I do t see that happening.

 

I think it will be things that are software controlled because those can be added to every vehicle at no added cost.

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:


I don’t see this working for physical hardware like heated seats because the mfr would be paying to install things the customer might not pay for..unless they’re going to install it, include it in the vehicle price then double dip with a subscription fee.  But I do t see that happening.

 

I think that’s exactly what Ford is planning, build one type of a certain BEV model with all options/features installed with premium BEV price and then they tell buyers, you can pay for those features either as a one off purchase or annual/6 monthly subscription.

 

 

23 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

I think it will be things that are software controlled because those can be added to every vehicle at no added cost.

That would be my fall back position if the more radical suspicion is false…

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12 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

Hyundai/Kia is the company he most spotlighted in the interview. Along with one or more Chinese firms yet-to-be-determined. 

 

That's correct Gurgeh, the rapid rise of both Hyundai Motor Group and Chinese automakers like NIO and BYD Auto with BEV has Farley rightfully concerned. Those companies, and many more, will be fierce competition for Ford Model e.

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

 

I think that’s exactly what Ford is planning, build one type of a certain BEV model with all options/features installed with premium BEV price and then they tell buyers, you can pay for those features either as a one off purchase or annual/6 monthly subscription.


I understand what you’re saying but that only works if everybody is doing it.  Otherwise the ones who don’t do it have a huge cost advantage and can undercut on price or it drastically lowers the profit margins when customers don’t buy everything.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, akirby said:


Except going forward you won’t be paying for it up front.

 

Except if the hardware is there, you are paying for it, then they charge you more to actually get to use it.  They can't come take back your seat heaters (legally), so the manufacturer is already out the cost.

Edited by j2sys

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41 minutes ago, j2sys said:

 

Except if the hardware is there, you are paying for it, then they charge you more to actually get to use it.  They can't come take back your seat heaters (legally), so the manufacturer is already out the cost.


Yes but see above for reasons why they probably wouldn’t do that.  I grant you it is possible though.

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7 hours ago, akirby said:


I understand what you’re saying but that only works if everybody is doing it.  Otherwise the ones who don’t do it have a huge cost advantage and can undercut on price or it drastically lowers the profit margins when customers don’t buy everything.

I get that and  software will probably target, connectivity services that can be switched on/off more than things like heated seats…although it may be easier to bulk order some options and lower the cost by making them standard/ switch on option.  
 

My thought is that “everyone is doing it” will be the case, it will be easier to flip a switch if buyers change their mind and want something. Look what happened with things like A/C and power steering, starting as options way back but now expected as standard equipment and thus included in the price.

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Posted (edited)

Subscriptions and recurring revenue are the big thing in the corporate world now. Media was first, then software, and now everyone that can will try to jump on the bandwagon. 

 

Buying a vehicle is a once off, non recurring income for the manufacturer. It's essentially worth nothing once the transaction is made. There's no guarantee you'll go back, and at best it may be every few years. 

 

Recurring revenue is where it's at. Ford Pro software is the start of it, and has the potential to be huge, but features in consumer vehicles will follow, make no mistake. 

Edited by justins

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16 hours ago, justins said:

Recurring revenue is where it's at. Ford Pro software is the start of it, and has the potential to be huge, but features in consumer vehicles will follow, make no mistake. 

 

Sure, so long as they offer services that provide ongoing benefit instead of giving me permission to use the hardware I already own.  BMW doesn't understand the difference.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

Sure, so long as they offer services that provide ongoing benefit instead of giving me permission to use the hardware I already own.  BMW doesn't understand the difference.

I fear you're going to be very disappointed. You'll probably find there'll be a "Comfort Pack" which includes heated seats and massage function. One or the other will be $15/month, but both will be $20, so you'll send up just going for both. 

Edited by justins

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22 minutes ago, justins said:

I fear you're going to be very disappointed. You'll probably find there'll be a "Comfort Pack" which includes heated seats and massage function. One or the other will be $15/month, but both will be $20, so you'll send up just going for both. 


Oh hell no. I'll definitely never ever buy a new car with that kind of bullshit going on. They can kiss my ass. 

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2 hours ago, justins said:

One or the other will be $15/month, but both will be $20, so you'll send up just going for both. 

 

No.  I won't.

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7 hours ago, justins said:

I fear you're going to be very disappointed. You'll probably find there'll be a "Comfort Pack" which includes heated seats and massage function. One or the other will be $15/month, but both will be $20, so you'll send up just going for both. 

They kinda do that now with those grouped packages they sell, I remember people complaining that they wanted some options but not all of them. So this would be a progression on that locking people into subscription for packages to work…..

 

No wonder Doug Field gets a glint when talking about Software and batteries being two Amin areas of focus at the moment.

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:43 AM, akirby said:

I think it will be things that are software controlled because those can be added to every vehicle at no added cost.

 

What I see missing from the OEM side is the competence to actually create 'gotta have' software features that would create demand on the consumer side. Use navigation as an example - why pay for factory maps when you can use Google or Apple Maps or Waze? Frankly, I would never use an OEM nav map with these superior options available. 

 

The reality is that Apple and Google are eons ahead of the OEMs with these consumer features, because they have been supplying them on their phones for years, and refining the product over that time. As someone noted, Ford has a leg up on its commercial offering, and should press that advantage. On the consumer side, they are woefully behind and won't catch up - Apple and Google aren't standing still on their phone offerings.

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2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

What I see missing from the OEM side is the competence to actually create 'gotta have' software features that would create demand on the consumer side. Use navigation as an example - why pay for factory maps when you can use Google or Apple Maps or Waze? Frankly, I would never use an OEM nav map with these superior options available. 

 

The reality is that Apple and Google are eons ahead of the OEMs with these consumer features, because they have been supplying them on their phones for years, and refining the product over that time. As someone noted, Ford has a leg up on its commercial offering, and should press that advantage. On the consumer side, they are woefully behind and won't catch up - Apple and Google aren't standing still on their phone offerings.


Perhaps you missed this…

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/02/01/ford-google-accelerate-auto-innovation.html

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31 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Isn't that all essentially 'behind the firewall' support? Where is any mention of 'gotta have' software and programming? Or are you suggesting there will be "Ford Waze"?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Isn't that all essentially 'behind the firewall' support? Where is any mention of 'gotta have' software and programming? Or are you suggesting there will be "Ford Waze"?


Google will help Ford develop vehicle software including the customer driving experience.

 

Quote
  • To drive ongoing innovation, Ford and Google are establishing a new collaborative group, Team Upshift, that will push the boundaries of Ford’s transformation, unlock personalized consumer experiences, and drive disruptive, data-driven opportunities

 

Edited by akirby

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