November '21 Sales

[fuzzymoomoo]

Nobody is comparing Bronco sales with Compass and Cherokee, it's Bronco Sport. Big difference. 

[Trader 10]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

Lincoln helps amortize Ford platforms and factories and generate much higher profit margins.  Killing Lincoln would just be throwing away free money.

Agree. If Lincoln makes $5000/vehicle extra profit over the Ford branded models, it generates an extra $500 million/year annually for FoMoCo based on sales of 100,000/year. It would be crazy to give that up.

[rmc523]

58 minutes ago, BigUnixGeek said:

Why are we comparing Bronco sales to that of Jeep Compass and Cherokee?  Is that really what they're trying to compete with?  Is the Wrangler line just a 4wd elephant in the room?

 

To be clear, I have no idea how the Wrangler sales compare to Bronco or whatever, but if I saw a Ford commercial that was touting that particular statistic I wouldn't be able to keep from laughing.  And this reminds me that I recently heard that the tires shipping on the Broncos are Goodyear Wranglers that Ford paid Goodyear to re-brand.  I wonder how much that's costing the Bronco drivers...

 

My sister-in-law recently took delivery of a new Bronco.  It's pretty cool -- I like it.  And I'm a long-time Jeep fan.  I've owned a couple of Grand Cherokees, and my project vehicle is an old CJ-7.  But also, I have an F-250 on order.  To each his own, the right tool for the job, and all that.

 

They're comparing Bronco Sport to Compass and Cherokee, which is appropriate since they're in the same segment.

 

Bronco itself competes against Wrangler.

 

---

 

Bronco Sport =/= Bronco.

Just to end this line of discussion once and for all.....

 

Bronco Sport:

 

 

Bronco:

[akirby]

2 hours ago, BigUnixGeek said:

Why are we comparing Bronco sales to that of Jeep Compass and Cherokee?  Is that really what they're trying to compete with?  Is the Wrangler line just a 4wd elephant in the room?

 

To be clear, I have no idea how the Wrangler sales compare to Bronco or whatever, but if I saw a Ford commercial that was touting that particular statistic I wouldn't be able to keep from laughing. 

Bronco SPORT is a direct competitor to Compass and Cherokee.

 

Everyone knows Wrangler sales are far ahead of Bronco and will be for some time.  Ford isn’t saying anything about that, just that they’re selling as fast as they can make them right now.  Are you just looking for things to complain about?

[BigUnixGeek]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Everyone knows Wrangler sales are far ahead of Bronco and will be for some time.  Ford isn’t saying anything about that, just that they’re selling as fast as they can make them right now.  Are you just looking for things to complain about?

 

No, no...  Just demonstrating my ignorance of the Bronco variants, I guess, which afforded me quite a chuckle over the idea of comparing to whatever was most convenient or complimentary.

[rperez817]

10 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

If Lincoln makes $5000/vehicle extra profit over the Ford branded models

 

It didn't, at least at the time that Alan Mulally planned to pull the plug on Lincoln. As late as 2018, both Morgan Stanley and Ford executives indicated that Lincoln was a money pit for Ford. Don't know if that's still the case today, but even nowadays it's extremely unlikely that Lincoln delivers the level of profitability you mention to Ford Motor Company.

Edited December 3, 2021 by rperez817

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

It didn't, at least at the time that Alan Mulally planned to pull the plug on Lincoln. As late as 2018, both Morgan Stanley and Ford executives indicated that Lincoln was a money pit for Ford. Don't know if that's still the case today, but even nowadays it's extremely unlikely that Lincoln delivers the level of profitability you mention to Ford Motor Company.

 

In Central Florida, Lincoln dealers have no product to sell, and with all the seniors here, Lincoln does very well here.

 

I recently went to a local auto show here, and Lincoln had no new vehicles to show, only a 2020 used Nautilus. Only taking orders.

 

Meanwhile, Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis had new vehicles all over the place. GM had 5 new C8 Corvettes and Mazda had all its new vehicles there. No Ford dealer even showed up.

 

But Lincoln is big seller here, and biggest problem is Lincoln dealers in senior rich Central Florida can't get new vehicles. If Lincoln sells such high margin vehicles, you would think Ford would make every effort to get chips for them.

 

Ford sells more Broncos than Lincoln does with 4 vehicles. Lincoln could sell more vehicles if its dealers had any. 

[akirby]

26 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

In Central Florida, Lincoln dealers have no product to sell, and with all the seniors here, Lincoln does very well here.

 

I recently went to a local auto show here, and Lincoln had no new vehicles to show, only a 2020 used Nautilus. Only taking orders.

 

Meanwhile, Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis had new vehicles all over the place. GM had 5 new C8 Corvettes and Mazda had all its new vehicles there. No Ford dealer even showed up.

 

But Lincoln is big seller here, and biggest problem is Lincoln dealers in senior rich Central Florida can't get new vehicles. If Lincoln sells such high margin vehicles, you would think Ford would make every effort to get chips for them.

 

Ford sells more Broncos than Lincoln does with 4 vehicles. Lincoln could sell more vehicles if its dealers had any. 

I think you’re confusing “can’t get vehicles” with “sell them as fast as they come in”.  Ford and Lincoln are selling and delivering a lot of vehicles, they just don’t have a lot of u so,d inventory sitting around.

 

And if you don’t think Lincoln is making $5k on $60k Nautilus, $70k Aviator and $90k Navigators when rates are almost non existent you’re dreaming.

[ice-capades]

33 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

In Central Florida, Lincoln dealers have no product to sell, and with all the seniors here, Lincoln does very well here.

 

I recently went to a local auto show here, and Lincoln had no new vehicles to show, only a 2020 used Nautilus. Only taking orders.

 

Meanwhile, Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis had new vehicles all over the place. GM had 5 new C8 Corvettes and Mazda had all its new vehicles there. No Ford dealer even showed up.

 

But Lincoln is big seller here, and biggest problem is Lincoln dealers in senior rich Central Florida can't get new vehicles. If Lincoln sells such high margin vehicles, you would think Ford would make every effort to get chips for them.

 

Ford sells more Broncos than Lincoln does with 4 vehicles. Lincoln could sell more vehicles if its dealers had any. 

 

Exhibit space and related expenses at local auto shows is paid for by the individual Dealer. There's little reason for dealerships to spend thousands of dollars on exhibit space and related expenses with so little inventory available.  

[Chrisgb]

13 hours ago, BigUnixGeek said:

Why are we comparing Bronco sales to that of Jeep Compass and Cherokee?  Is that really what they're trying to compete with?  Is the Wrangler line just a 4wd elephant in the room?

 

 

They were talking about the Bronco Sport vs Cherokee/compass:

https:::media.ford.com:content:dam:fordmedia:North%20America:US:2021:12:02:ford-sales-21-november.pdfhttps:::media.ford.com:content:dam:fordmedia:North%20America:US:2021:12:02:ford-sales-21-november.pdf

[grbeck]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

 

Exhibit space and related expenses at local auto shows is paid for by the individual Dealer. There's little reason for dealerships to spend thousands of dollars on exhibit space and related expenses with so little inventory available.  

 

The local dealer association just announced that the 2022 Pennsylvania Auto Show (held in late January at the Farm Show Complex in Harrisburg) has been cancelled for that very reason. 

[jpd80]

Any month where F. Series sales are 60,000  is not too bad, at least Ford has  its priorities are right….

Edited December 4, 2021 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Any month where F. Series sales are 60,000  is not too bad, at least Ford has  its priorities are right….

 

Especially when you add the extra 15,000 from other markets to it. 

[twintornados]

9 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Especially when you add the extra 15,000 from other markets to it. 

 

Were they F-Series trucks? Don't they count as sales too??

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Were they F-Series trucks? Don't they count as sales too??

Just keeping to US sales, what sells in Canada or Middle East goes to their tallies.

[twintornados]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Just keeping to US sales, what sells in Canada or Middle East goes to their tallies.

 

And of course, you have some sort of documented proof of this...

[jpd80]

46 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

And of course, you have some sort of documented proof of this...

Canada is still reporting as quarterly sales but in Q3 F Series was over 29,100 sales (48,000 in 2020)

so that suggests to me around 10,000 to 12,000 sales  for November ( my regular source fails me atm)

[bzcat]

Ford averages about 1,000 F-Series a month in Mexico and similar number in the Middle East. 

[ausrutherford]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

Ford averages about 1,000 F-Series a month in Mexico and similar number in the Middle East. 

 

And they can sell a couple hundred a month in many other Latin American nations per month. 

[bzcat]

So 15k per month F-Series outside the US seems about right.

 

I didn't know this before but I googled Ford Middle East sales results and apparently F-series is the top selling vehicle in several of the smaller GCC countries - just like the US.

[ausrutherford]

9 hours ago, bzcat said:

So 15k per month F-Series outside the US seems about right.

 

I didn't know this before but I googled Ford Middle East sales results and apparently F-series is the top selling vehicle in several of the smaller GCC countries - just like the US.

 

Middle Eastern market is very similar to the US in the size and type of vehicles that sell due to "cheap" fuel prices. However, they tend to have less content. 

 

Whereas a Land Cruiser is a luxury vehicle in the US, a Middle Eastern Land Cruiser is like a normal Tahoe there. 

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

Whereas a Land Cruiser is a luxury vehicle in the US, a Middle Eastern Land Cruiser is like a normal Tahoe there. 

 

And a factory mounted machine gun turret on the roof is available...lol