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Moisture In Headlights


Bull894

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  • 3 weeks later...
12 hours ago, OsideF250 said:

I’ve read in other places that this is common. You would think that if enough people have complained about it, Ford would look into fixing the issue and getting it right from the beginning. 

 

So where is the issue coming from? The seal from the bulbs/led connector? Or from the plastic melted seams in the housing assembly?

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On 1/5/2022 at 8:59 AM, OsideF250 said:

I’ve read in other places that this is common. You would think that if enough people have complained about it, Ford would look into fixing the issue and getting it right from the beginning. 


My 1993 Explorer had a problem with the seat rails causing the driver’s seat to rock back and forth.  
 

They’re still having that same problem on a few vehicles today.

 

Some things are either too hard or too expensive to fix properly.

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10 hours ago, FL Lariat Driver said:

The 2022 SD owner's manual page 118 talks about how much condensation is acceptable in the headlight, how long it might take to clear and when to contact the dealer.


Correct - some moisture is normal but it should clear quickly.

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On 12/12/2021 at 11:17 AM, Bull894 said:

I have my 22 F250 exactly one week today. We had alot of rain yesterday all day.  Today it is sunny out.  I noticed that both front headlights have fogging/ moisture in them. Has anyone else experienced this? Going to contact the dealer on Monday. 


Do you have the halogen or LED headlights?

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Condensation in headlight makes sense and even more so with larger volumes.

 

Very much like a gas can when you put the lid on after it is sitting out in the hot sun. When the air inside it condenses and if there are no air leaks it will pull the sides of the can in.

OR...

If you have even the slightest micro leak in the cap it will not pull sides in but will suck air in from the outside, and outside air has humidity. 

 

The larger volume of air inside of a sealed system is more air to condense down. 

 

If all seals are perfect and wires going into plug are sealed and there are no cracks or defects where the plastic seams are welded then you will get no moisture in the headlight after cooling has occurred. But then you will have some serious contraction of the plastic housing. 

 

Which is probably why you see a lot of headlights that have microfractures all through the plastic, especially more so the older they get and being sun-baked for 5 10 15 years (plastic becoming more brittle and still expanding and contracting). These headlights have a lot of  clear frontal surface area that will be highly susceptible to deflection.?

 

I would imagine people that live in Arizona would have less issues with moisture in headlights then somebody that lives in Washington state because of the humidity in the air. 

 

I expect to see F series 2017 through 2022 headlights that are either riddled with plastic cracks / microfractures, or somewhat cloudy film from the inside from intake and exhaust pressure differences.

 

Think of your headlight as a gas can or a car tire with heating and cooling differences and pressures.

 

Something will always give unless it is designed not to give.

 

 

I am curious on the pressures involved. When you have large volume headlights that is perfect and has no defects and you put a new bulb in it when it is 10 - 20 degrees outside the air inside will pressurize and blow out past the seal, then your assembly from that point on would be at a vacuum.

 

I guess it would be best to always change your headlight bulb in somewhat of a neutral dry temperature if this is actually what is going on inside of a headlight.

 

I am going to do a little experiment and get a large volume headlight 17-22 (to be exact), make sure it is sealed perfectly and then start running it through the sequences of heating and cooling just to see what the pressures are.... JUST OUT OF PLAIN CURIOSITY! ???There is a mathematical calculation to see the exact pressure volume/air density/temp..... I will see how close that is to actual pressure.

 

 

 

Edited by IUEC135ELEVATOR
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Would cool to see statistics on how headlights hold up in different parts of the country and when failure occurs what is the reason for their replacement.

 

They say all your questions will be answered if you go to heaven.

 

They're going to look at me like I'm nuts if I ever go there because I'm not going to be asking questions about the answers of the universe I'm going to ask 500 questions on trivial statistics.

 

:Enter into pearly gates....

 

 

ME: can you show me headlight replacement statistics for all vehicles around the world. How many peanut butter and jelly sandwiches have I eaten, where exactly is Jimmy Hoffa buried, what's up with that park in the driveway but you drive on the parkway naming, where did ants come from...ect ect..?

 

Pool angel fella that answers questions: WTF? REALLY??

 

ME: yes really and I have about 10,000 more.?

 

Poor angel fella: crap,another one of these guys, this is going to be a long day!?

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2 hours ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:

Condensation in headlight makes sense and even more so with larger volumes.

 

Very much like a gas can when you put the lid on after it is sitting out in the hot sun. When the air inside it condenses and if there are no air leaks it will pull the sides of the can in.

OR...

If you have even the slightest micro leak in the cap it will not pull sides in but will suck air in from the outside, and outside air has humidity. 

 

The larger volume of air inside of a sealed system is more air to condense down. 

 

If all seals are perfect and wires going into plug are sealed and there are no cracks or defects where the plastic seams are welded then you will get no moisture in the headlight after cooling has occurred. But then you will have some serious contraction of the plastic housing. 

 

Which is probably why you see a lot of headlights that have microfractures all through the plastic, especially more so the older they get and being sun-baked for 5 10 15 years (plastic becoming more brittle and still expanding and contracting). These headlights have a lot of  clear frontal surface area that will be highly susceptible to deflection.?

 

I would imagine people that live in Arizona would have less issues with moisture in headlights then somebody that lives in Washington state because of the humidity in the air. 

 

I expect to see F series 2017 through 2022 headlights that are either riddled with plastic cracks / microfractures, or somewhat cloudy film from the inside from intake and exhaust pressure differences.

 

Think of your headlight as a gas can or a car tire with heating and cooling differences and pressures.

 

Something will always give unless it is designed not to give.

 

 

I am curious on the pressures involved. When you have large volume headlights that is perfect and has no defects and you put a new bulb in it when it is 10 - 20 degrees outside the air inside will pressurize and blow out past the seal, then your assembly from that point on would be at a vacuum.

 

I guess it would be best to always change your headlight bulb in somewhat of a neutral dry temperature if this is actually what is going on inside of a headlight.

 

I am going to do a little experiment and get a large volume headlight 17-22 (to be exact), make sure it is sealed perfectly and then start running it through the sequences of heating and cooling just to see what the pressures are.... JUST OUT OF PLAIN CURIOSITY! ???There is a mathematical calculation to see the exact pressure volume/air density/temp..... I will see how close that is to actual pressure.

 

 

 

The headlight assembly is NOT hermetically sealed. In other words, it has vents that allow for inside and outside pressure differences to be equalized immediately. Otherwise the headlight would expand and contract and suffer cracks and other failures. The moisture inside the headlight is a byproduct of the vents but the vents will also allow the moisture to dissipate.

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I'm guessing here but the LED lights generate no heat whereas the incandescent do and probably allow the moisture to vent. 

 

I bought LED replacement lights for my 97 Jeep TJ. I recall there being a discussion about using them in winter climate because they would not melt the snow/ice.

 

My 15 F150 Plat w/ LED does not have this problem and I assumed there was something inside to heat them.

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10 hours ago, FL Lariat Driver said:

 

The headlight assembly is NOT hermetically sealed. In other words, it has vents that allow for inside and outside pressure differences to be equalized immediately. Otherwise the headlight would expand and contract and suffer cracks and other failures. The moisture inside the headlight is a byproduct of the vents but the vents will also allow the moisture to dissipate.

So are the people with headlight moisture on THESE truck having a venting issue or would it be outside environment?

 

If these have vents then if the vents were stopped or restricted?

 

It is obviously not a design issue...  quality control or blocked vents then? just curious?

 

Just came in from outside, while out in the barn and carport.. I looked at some lights I could get to, fog lights for scion, headlight for chevy truck have on shelf, led light bars on tractor and led headlights for tractor and led light bar on workbench going on truck.

None of them have any vents. 

 

Is it just large volume headlights that have vents? 

 

Or is it only large assemblies with halogens are vented...not led or low volume like my Chevy headlight....

Edited by IUEC135ELEVATOR
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I can't speak to all types and sizes of headlights and auxiliary lights but the 22 Super Duty Owner's Manual page 118 specifically mentions headlight vents and moisture. I would suspect that folks having moisture problems in LED lights or even halogen lights are experiencing just the right combination of humidity and temperature to cause condensation and/or they have an actual defective housing that isn't allowing for proper ventilation. I have LED lights on my 2018 F-150 and I live in Florida with lots of high humidity, but I've never seen any amount of moisture in my housing that didn't go away within a day or so.

 

I wouldn't think that the size of the housing would make any difference because the housing still has to be vented to the outside in some way, however subtle, to prevent the expansion and contraction and the housing isn't designed so it can be submerged it just has to be mostly waterproof.

 

 

875289191_Screenshot2022-01-09214504.png.9e5ba3faff88186c41b10758ab0a5070.png

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On 1/9/2022 at 10:24 PM, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:

So are the people with headlight moisture on THESE truck having a venting issue or would it be outside environment?

 

If these have vents then if the vents were stopped or restricted?

 

It is obviously not a design issue...  quality control or blocked vents then? just curious?

 

Just came in from outside, while out in the barn and carport.. I looked at some lights I could get to, fog lights for scion, headlight for chevy truck have on shelf, led light bars on tractor and led headlights for tractor and led light bar on workbench going on truck.

None of them have any vents. 

 

Is it just large volume headlights that have vents? 

 

Or is it only large assemblies with halogens are vented...not led or low volume like my Chevy headlight....

I do know that mercedes headlights have vents because the owner of the company that designs and manufactures them told me he supplies them to mercedes. So its not just large volume headlights with halogens

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Why is there condensation in the

headlamps?

Headlamps have vents to

accommodate normal changes in air

pressure. Condensation can be a

natural by-product of this design.

When moist air enters the lamp

assembly through the vents, there is a

possibility that condensation can

occur when the temperature is cold.

When normal condensation occurs, a

fine mist can form on the interior of the

lens. The fine mist eventually clears

and exits through the vents during

normal operation.

How much condensation is

acceptable?

The presence of a fine mist, for

example no streaks, drip marks or

large droplets. A fine mist covers less

than 50% of the lens.

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